christianity dying of old age?

[Subduction Zone]

I just did. Add on capitalism being a good thing, work ethic instead of universal income just for existing, two genders, white privilege is a myth, the American form of government is better than socialism, and the right to own what you have earned.

You mean all of the ideas where you have been shown to be wrong when debating? That is called shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You mean all of the ideas where you have been shown to be wrong when debating? That is called shooting yourself in the foot.

I've heard a lot of yapping. I've never been shown to be wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've heard a lot of yapping. I've never been shown to be wrong.

Now you are being delusional. Just because you do not understand how you have been shown to be wrong does not mean that it has not happened.

 

[Windwalker]

"For the latter, Langbert and Stevens look at voter registration and candidate contributions for a sample of more than 12,000 profs from several of the top schools in each state. The upshot? “48.4 percent are registered Democrats and 5.7 percent are registered Republicans, a ratio of 8.5:1.”

So the vast majority of college professors are liberal and this shows up in their teaching.

As an example of applying critical thinking to this, I would not leap to an unfounded assumption as you do based upon this statistic that "the vast majority of college professors are liberal," let alone assume without support that this "shows up in their teaching". Let's start with the the statistic that 48.4% are registered Democrats.

First, that's less than 50% of the professors, not 100%, nor a vast majority. What are the other 45.9%, and what influence are they having?

Secondly, are all Democrats liberal? That is the very first question someone should ask if they were looking at this with critical thinking skills. A quick Google search was able to provide the answer. No. We should not assume this means they are all liberals:

In 2019, the Pew Research Center found that 14% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning registered voters identify as conservative or very conservative, 38% identify as moderate, and 47% identify as liberal or very liberal.[2]

Conservative Democrat - Wikipedia
​

Is there any reason to assume that Colleges have 100% liberal Democrats? I'd say without hard data, it would probably be safer to assume as cross section of Democratic demographics you see in the main population as well.

Secondly, why do you assume that because someone holds liberal values politically, that this somehow poisons the facts of what they are teaching? Do you think that being a political progressive means somehow that Evolution is embraced because its supports secularism? I don't understand this reasoning. It simply doesn't follow.

In fact, that is reflective of the logical fallacy that tries to discredit someone's point of view, but accusing them of being a "hater" of the other person's views. "They teach Evolution, because they hate God!", for instance. "They teach racial equality, because their are bleeding heart liberal scum", for instance. Again, this is an example of critical thinking being completely absent in drawing such conclusions.

They turn out students with liberal bias, such as supporting abortion, against gun rights, support for children being given puberty blockers etc.

As I've shown, this is not the conclusion of critical thinking. In fact, there are a considerable amount of other factors that are being completely ignored in just handwaving away these things as some sort of "liberal bias". For instance, I earned a degree from a highly conservative Christian college at the top of my class. Yet, I hold far more "liberal' points of view than they do.

I left them because I couldn't agree with the basis for their beliefs. That didn't come from me going to a liberal college. It came from myself. It came from my own critical examination of their beliefs, as well as deep self-honesty at a spiritual and emotional level. No college professor turned me out as some clone image of themselves. If they had, I'd be a Bible-Thumping Conservative!

 

[Wildswanderer]

As an example of applying critical thinking to this, I would not leap to an unfounded assumption as you do based upon this statistic that "the vast majority of college professors are liberal," let alone assume without support that this "shows up in their teaching". Let's start with the the statistic that 48.4% are registered Democrats.

First, that's less than 50% of the professors, not 100%, nor a majority.

Secondly, are all Democrats liberal? That is the very first question someone should ask if they were looking at this with critical thinking skills. A quick Google search was able to provide the answer. No. We should not assume this means they are all liberals:

In 2019, the Pew Research Center found that 14% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning registered voters identify as conservative or very conservative, 38% identify as moderate, and 47% identify as liberal or very liberal.[2]

Conservative Democrat - Wikipedia
​

Is there any reason to assume that Colleges have 100% liberal Democrats? I'd say without hard data, it would probably be safer to assume as cross section of Democratic demographics you see in the main population as well.

Secondly, why do you assume that because someone holds liberal values politically, that this somehow poisons the facts of what they are teaching? Do you think that being a political progressive means somehow that Evolution is embraced because its supports secularism? I don't understand this reasoning. It simply doesn't follow.

In fact, that is reflective of the logical fallacy that tries to discredit someone's point of view, but accusing them of being a "hater" of the other person's views. "They teach Evolution, because they hate God!", for instance. "They teach racial equality, because their are bleeding heart liberal scum", for instance. Again, this is an example of critical thinking being completely absent in drawing such conclusions.


As I've shown, this is not the conclusion of critical thinking. In fact, there are a considerable amount of other factors that are being completely ignored in just handwaving away these things as some sort of "liberal bias". For instance, I earned a degree from a highly conservative Christian college at the top of my class. Yet, I hold far more "liberal' points of view than they do.

I left them because I couldn't agree with the basis for their beliefs. That didn't come from me going to a liberal college. It came from myself. It came from my own critical examination of their beliefs, as well as deep self-honesty at a spiritual and emotional level. No college professor turned me out as some clone image of themselves. If they had, I'd be a Bible-Thumping Conservative!

I never even mentioned evolution. And yes, in spite of their claims, most Democrats are liberal.
And yes, most students are gullible enough to follow where the professor leads.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I never even mentioned evolution. And yes, in spite of their claims, most Democrats are liberal.
And yes, most students are gullible enough to follow where the professor leads.

No, most Democrats are more liberal than Republicans. That does not make them "liberal". That is even further to the left.

 

[Sand Dancer]

How so?

Are you asking why that is or is it true?

Religious Landscape Study

 

[Windwalker]

I never even mentioned evolution.

Do do you consider that a liberal belief, out of curiosity?

And yes, in spite of their claims, most Democrats are liberal.

So, the Pew Survey Poll data and statistics is incorrect? They were lied to? They just said they are are moderates, and conservative Democrats, they didn't answer the survey questions honestly, because in reality, they're all extreme left wing, lying liberals and were trying to deceive the poll takers? Is this what you believe?

And yes, most students are gullible enough to follow where the professor leads.

Would you be? Are you projecting this onto others?

So do you isolate yourself from the knowledge and teachings of others who have different understandings of reality than you do, because you fear they might corrupt your beliefs? Do you block out others, by branding them as devils, and such? Do you ever entertain other ideas besides your might have validity? Can you answer those questions honestly?

This goes to my point about critical thinking. Can you answer how you used critical thinking to change your points of view in the past? Can you describe your process. I've already demonstrated how I use critical thinking in examining multiple factors and considering multiple perspectives. I'd be happy to share other ways in which I use it to examine issues.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do do you consider that a liberal belief, out of curiosity?


So, the Pew Survey Poll data and statistics is incorrect? They were lied to? They just said they are are moderates, and conservative Democrats, they didn't answer the survey questions honestly, because in reality, they're all extreme left wing, lying liberals and were trying to deceive the poll takers? Is this what you believe?


Would you be? Are you projecting this onto others?

So do you isolate yourself from the knowledge and teachings of others who have different understandings of reality than you do, because you fear they might corrupt your beliefs? Do you block out others, by branding them as devils, and such? Do you ever entertain other ideas besides your might have validity? Can you answer those questions honestly?

This goes to my point about critical thinking. Can you answer how you used critical thinking to change your points of view in the past? Can you describe your process. I've already demonstrated how I use critical thinking in examining multiple factors and considering multiple perspectives. I'd be happy to share other ways in which I use it to examine issues.

Of course. I have changed beliefs by considering the evidence. And I read things I don't 100% agree with, to glean the useful parts.

Look at what the Democrats vote for. That is my evidence. What they call themselves does not matter at all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course. I have changed beliefs by considering the evidence. And I read things I don't 100% agree with, to glean the useful parts.

Look at what the Democrats vote for. That is my evidence. What they call themselves does not matter at all.

I know. Equal rights for everyone is terribly liberal.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I know. Equal rights for everyone is terribly liberal.

Democrats vote for the opposite.
No firearms rights. No choice but government healthcare. No tax breaks for business'.
Republicans voted to protect the American people from the last-minute regulations that the Obama administration put in place... everything from land management to education to buying a car..the liberals are all about more regulations.
They eliminated border security and put people in danger knowingly.
Democrats constantly defend censorship on social media platforms. Apparently the first Amendment only applies as far as they see fit.

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you asking why that is or is it true?

Religious Landscape Study

Oh! I get it now.

Islam isn't particularly suited to young people. But it is demographically more popular with that age group, mainly because Muslims tend to have many children.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think that the only thing that can save it will be some kind of revival movement:

That is all I can offer.

Regards Tony

 

[Windwalker]

Of course. I have changed beliefs by considering the evidence. And I read things I don't 100% agree with, to glean the useful parts.

Look at what the Democrats vote for. That is my evidence. What they call themselves does not matter at all.

Is it logical to believe that all Democrats think alike? What do you do with the poll data which shows that there a liberal Democrats, moderate Democrats, and conservative Democrats?

But let's look at what they vote for, for instance. Do you not see any possibly validity to their points of view? Or are they just 100% wrong because you are 100% right? Is that a logical belief to believe that?

 

[Sedim Haba]

Here is one intractable problem as I see it: the churches today won't accept that they have to give up the sermon style church -- which is a church that pleases and fulfills women only, not men. Everything is formulaic, because that is what the women approve of. They need support (like what a good husband provides) in order to feel free. Men need something else. Very often church is all about controlling God and making sure everyone hears, says and thinks the right things. It is woman-centered religion. God is not a human. A God centered religion is dangerous and chaotic. Women don't like it. I can't blame them for that, but I can say that their churches are inflexible and are not healthy for men. Men need to come out of that place and start something for men alone.

In our Hunter-Gatherer stage there was always two separate faith-groups and initiations;
one for the hunter men, usually involving a solo quest for a boy, and one for girls around
emerging womanhood. It's in our human nature, our race memory.

Modern culture keeps seeking to stamp it out and look where that's led.

If you want to understand this in modern times, see 'Indian Guides' history.
Who founded it and why. How it was stamped out for 'P.C.' reasons and why.

 

[Heyo]

In our Hunter-Gatherer stage there was always two separate faith-groups and initiations;

Nope.
It was (and is) common but not exclusively so. We know from archaeological and historical evidence that some groups, who had division of labour, let the adolescents choose and we even think there were almost egalitarian groups.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Add on capitalism being a good thing, work ethic instead of universal income just for existing,

Capitalism isn't about work ethic; it's about wealth begetting more wealth. Income for existing, only for an elite rather than universally.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I fear that in Western Europe at least Christianity is dying of old age

Here is a local example of what I think is a more general trend:

On a Sunday at my church there are normally between 20 and 25 people in the congregation

Only three of us are under 40 and I'll turn 40 next year

Everyone else are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s

I am worried for the long-term future of my church as it seems that we will be losing members to old age at a much greater rate to how we are attracting new members

Is this typical in Christianity in general?

My impression is that it is

At least in Western Europe - I understand that in the USA and Africa this is not the case?

I think that the only thing that can save it will be some kind of revival movement:

I believe that it is up to the Christinas of Western Europe to initiate a revival

And that they should do so with a sense of urgency - while there is something left to revive!

Discuss.

I see it more as Christianity is being left to its own devices and it's failing to stand on its own merits.

Traditionally, Christianity was propped up with carrots and sticks: carrots for the church and its supporters (e.g. state support and funding) and sticks for non-Christians and members of dissident denominations (e.g. social penalties or outright ostracization, fines for not attending church).

We certainly haven't completely detached mainstream churches from the public teat, but even already, in many countries, it's practically and legally viable to treat Christianity as optional.

People are now free to choose to worship or not as they please, and for a large and increasing number of people, "as they please" does not include going to a mainstream church.

... so in general, I think the decline of Christianity is a sign of positive changes.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Capitalism isn't about work ethic; it's about wealth begetting morw wealth. Income for existing, only for an elite rather than universally.

Hogwarts. Capitalism benefits anyone willing to work and advance themselves.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I fear that in Western Europe at least Christianity is dying of old age

Here is a local example of what I think is a more general trend:

On a Sunday at my church there are normally between 20 and 25 people in the congregation

Only three of us are under 40 and I'll turn 40 next year

Everyone else are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s

I am worried for the long-term future of my church as it seems that we will be losing members to old age at a much greater rate to how we are attracting new members

Is this typical in Christianity in general?

My impression is that it is

At least in Western Europe - I understand that in the USA and Africa this is not the case?

I think that the only thing that can save it will be some kind of revival movement:

I believe that it is up to the Christinas of Western Europe to initiate a revival

And that they should do so with a sense of urgency - while there is something left to revive!

Discuss.

I tend to agree with this quote, and where the USA will be following the trends in Europe and elsewhere - with the young leading the way. Given that they are the ones leaving religion and less likely to come back to it. So an inevitability.

The Real Reason Religion Is Declining In America

Prejudice may never entirely leave us, but will increasingly be tossed into the dustbin of history, with transgender rights becoming the new civil rights movement after gay and lesbian rights become taken for granted. More Americans will disassociate from religion – not just in affiliation but in participation, religiosity, and belief. The America of the future, if these trends hold, will be unchurched, unmarried, and unprejudiced.