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Christianity is a crapshoot

Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
roger1440 said:
"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it." (Luke 9:24)
A person must bet the farm.
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I really do not believe that has anything to do with "being right", versus being "wrong". I believe that is totally your interpretation of it. Which was my whole point. Why are you making it into that? That verse you quote doesn't have anything to do with that. You are creating a dilemma where none exists.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
okay how about we get down to the basics , without Dogma, or who is and who is not a heretic.

Matthew 25 says at the end time Christ will separate the saved from the unsaved. To those saved He will say " receive your Eternal reward for I was hungry and you gave me to eat, thirsty and you gave me to drink, I was sick and you cared for me, I was in prison and you visited me, what you did for the least of my people, you did for me.'

He said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, to love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. That is the greatest commandment.

He said that sums up the law, therefore it trumps all the other stuff Christians bicker about.

If everyone followed the example of Christ there would be no war, no rape, No Stealing , no lying, no violence,, and the sick and hungry would be cared for.

Can't argue with that. :)
 
SpeaksForTheTrees

SpeaksForTheTrees

Well-Known Member
roger1440 said:
Orthodox Christianity teaches one must accept Jesus to be saved. Few Christians can explain what exactly one “saved” from. Rather than to discuss what “saved” means, what does it mean to accept Jesus or to believe in Jesus? Jesus died about 2000 years ago. He is not here to speak for himself. The only available means a person in the 21st century has to hear about Jesus is by the testimony of others. This testimony is transmitted either by word of mouth, a minister or pastor, books, radio, internet, etc. None of these sources had contact with Jesus. Using the Bible as the primary source opens more questions. There is no agreement among the churches on the interpretation on Christian scripture. If there were there wouldn’t be so many churches. Then the problem of authenticity of the Bible comes up. The New Testament is a collection of 27 books. The early church fathers chose what books are in and what books are out. How can we trust their decision? Who were these men? Then the problem of authorship of these 27 books comes up. Many of the authors of these books are anonymous. Scholars are not in agreement on who wrote them. Then there is the problem of the authenticity of the subject matter itself. We can’t ask the authors because they are long dead and we don’t know who they are anyway. Added to the mix are other books that didn’t make the cut. How can anyone know the Gospel of Thomas is is not authentic? Not only is Christianity diverse but there are many other religions across the planet. It would seem Christianity is a crapshoot, a gamble.

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Hi
By the very nature of Jesus he would require we are orthodox ?(force us) His ministry compared to at the time was unorthodox ?
Is possible to be orthodox in christianity is a requirement the church sets not Jesus ?
Jesus for All, none and can be forced on none ?
Don't see how can ever logically turn above observation to orthodoxy ?
You know Christianity is very liberal approach in theory .
The gospels delivered by subjective contemplated narration. The way to read the gospel , the gods laws take precedent over the narrative .
imho christian leaders have fundermentaly missed the reality of what is said by Jesus himself .
Jesus was rarely narrated as following the church ,quite the opposite the narrative suggests .
Forced on none I think is really important point within narrative of Jesus.
Maybe the church a little confused .Took a wrong turning I guess , became literal version , by the very nature of subjective the narrative does not need to be factually accurate.? So why they try argue objectively .In theory other religions where delivered in person from God, this makes it more credible? Voices from the sky ?

In order to meet his equal a christian is forced to talk to God ? lol Ain't that right father , god says dont change the subject and answer the fckn question (_brave heart the Irishman)
In theory even "orthodox" can never live up to the standard set by Jesus ?
You know not so bad today, but is still in there like all the others christianity was very influenced by divine right .
It became the standard of the king ( in theory) Jesus lived like a king , hmmm no .Christ for none ? and never took sides? It became integrated with the monarchy but even they take to much and don't follow orthodoxy ?
Jesus is for All whether you believe in him or not .
Jesus said himself he was not God
Sometimes the NT appears no more than an empathatic
overload by narrative alone.
Unfortunately the narrative had to end with the subjective rejection of God , and of course forgiveness .
Is like a version that works for every one (christianity) can be whatever you want it to be like hinduism is my comparison .
Saved to be honest I felt saved simply by the compassion Jesus showed to others , saved from myself as I have guidance , saved from the guilt and regret of a long slow death .Saved from being uncomfortble in my enviroment and life , knowing although it might of cost me a million , I did the right thing , a sustainable thing . I leave this world carrying no burden by consequence.
Saved in this life ?
Cross the death bridge if and when I get there I do not worry about heaven , is the land of the dead plenty time for that later.
All I know for sure is no other place on earth for myself other than the christian part of the world .
In theory no one needs to understand as at some level we are ALL (global) saved , the standard set was to high?
Jewish and Muslim struggle to be orthodox in reality to the letter.
Christianity could quite simply be another conssesion from God overall lowering the commitment required .
Lowering the standard is no point having an orthodox standard if few can achieve is not a requirement imho.
In theory to lower the standard for man God made sacrifice
Even a story that's been stolen and twisted and misrepresented well imho The truth may as well be written in a different colour it stands out .
 
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T

The Ardent Atheist

Member
roger1440 said:
The author of the Gospel of Thomas may not agree with you. If the canonical Gospels were “universally venerated throughout Christendom” the author of the Gospel of Thomas would not have had the incentive to write his Gospel. The Gospel doesn’t even seem to be in agreement with the canonical Gospels.
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Well, my understanding is that Thomas was written in the mid-second century and was popular among Gnostics. If I recall correctly, in his book Against Heresies, Irenaeus (circa 180) wrote that the Gospel of Thomas was written by Marcion (I think) and was regarded by apostolic churches (i.e. those churches that possessed what Irenaeus termed "bishop lists," which were lists that churches kept of all the bishops who had served them) as a heretical text. His point was that Thomas was a new gospel and was completely unknown to the established Christian communities.

You see, the various gnostic groups had a habit of claiming that they'd "discovered" a new gospel by writing a new gospel and hiding it, then conveniently "discovering" it in the presence of eyewitnesses. (This is where all those "alternate" gospels come from that were written between the second and seventh centuries.) Irenaeus was basically calling the Gnostics out on their BS. He also scoffed at how each region of the Roman Empire seemed to have its own Gnostics with their own strange gospel texts that nobody outside of their particular communities had ever heard of. And, finally, he made the point that, even though they're separated by many miles, all the apostolic churches practiced the same shared faith, whereas the gnostic communities wildly differed from one another.

I should also note that, in this same book, Irenaeus mentions the four gospels Matthew/Mark/Luke/John as being authoritative among all the churches on account of their "universality" and their "antiquity" (his words, not mine). Several other writers of the same period, such as Origen and the anonymous author of the Muratorian (spelling?) Fragment, mention those four gospels as universally venerated among Christians.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
The Ardent Atheist said:
The early Christians didn't arbitrarily chose their books; before any councils declared "official" canons, there were plenty of Christian writers who had offered canons based on universality and tradition, and these canons were largely consistent with each other and with modern biblical canons.
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So it's never been about which books were most accurate, but which ones were more popular?

roger1440 said:
"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it." (Luke 9:24)
A person must bet the farm.
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Ah, but are you TRULY dying for Jesus? If someone is just mugging you and shoots you "for being a Christian", clearly you are in danger because he wants your money. So ... kick his butt. :)

PopeADope said:
If everyone followed the example of Christ there would be no war, no rape, No Stealing , no lying, no violence,, and the sick and hungry would be cared for
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Well, if we followed the Way as he told it. He wasn't always 100% himself...
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
Deidre said:
Is this the modern day version of Pascal's Wager?
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According to “Pascal's Wager” it would be in our best interest to bet that God exists rather than God does not exist. If God does exist then the wagerer would gain eternal bliss. On the other hand, if God did not exist and the wagerer had bet that God did exist the wagerer had lost nothing. But there is a flaw in his argument. Suppose a person had bet on the wrong God. Suppose God isn’t Christian at all. Suppose God is Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

http://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/06/the-flaws-of-pascals-wager/

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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
well....I'm not afraid to look myself in the eye....
but when I look deeper I wonder.....
what if God and heaven are looking for something else?

so...testing spirit entails what?
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Thief said:
well....I'm not afraid to look myself in the eye....
but when I look deeper I wonder.....
what if God and heaven are looking for something else?

so...testing spirit entails what?
Click to expand...

Knowledge. How much of the Truth, the Way, and the Life, can a mirror reveal?

The Son of Man comes as the offspring of trial and error- an offspring who inherits the wisdom and/or the foolishness presented by them who ate of the tree of knowledge concerning good and evil, before us.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
Kelly of the Phoenix said:
Ah, but are you TRULY dying for Jesus? If someone is just mugging you and shoots you "for being a Christian", clearly you are in danger because he wants your money. So ... kick his butt. :)
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Losing one’s life means to turn one’s life over to Jesus. By doing so one would save their life, by not doing so, one would forfeit their life. A person can’t turn over a portion of one’s life. A person must turn over ALL of their life. It’s like being a little pregnant. A person is or is not pregnant, there is no in between. A person must bet the farm.

"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it." (Luke 9:24)
 
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