Christianity is not the only way to God

[Windwalker]

The bible says that the only way to be a child of God is through Jesus making you become one , literally. The bible doesn't say there is another way.

"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.", Mt. 12:50.

"When Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts." Romans 2:14-15 cf. Ezekiel 11:19

As you can see, clearly in both versus, there is nothing whatsoever necessary about converting to the Christian religion, or even knowing who Jesus of Nazareth is. It's all about what is in the heart, and doing the Will of God, which gentiles were doing before, during, and after Jesus walked the earth, according to scripture.

So either The bible/ Jesus is wrong or all other religions are wrong . They all can't be right .

Or, the 3rd, and actual answer is that your reading of scripture is not consistent with what scripture says, and you are wrong.

Why do you say it has to be in all religions, or none at all ? That doesn't logically follow?

I did not say it HAS to be in all religions. I said that true followers of God may be found in those who follow other religions, or no religion at all. Correct religious group membership, is not the bus you need to get onto in order to find God. It is you who is saying it HAS to be in the Christian religion, or none at all. That's clearly wrong.

 

[metis]

The bible is true and factual and correct.

Prove it.

My point is that there's a difference between "belief" and "proof", and that it is very important to recognize that difference and respond accordingly, imo. This also allows others the dignity of feeling the same way about their scriptures or differences of opinion with the scriptures you both share.

Certainty is the enemy of sound theology.

 

[sojourner]

Why do you say it has to be in all religions, or none at all ? That doesn't logically follow?

No, it makes perfect sense. It’s not about religion. It’s about intention.

 

[sojourner]

Method and approach to the Scriptures is everything. The bible is true and factual and correct. What happens is people have presuppositions , bias , tradition, ect that influences how they read. The bible is fine . God hasn't made it difficult, we make it difficult.

So, the Bible is correct and factual in its implication that the earth is disc-shaped? Interesting...

 

[sojourner]

Windwalker,

Buddhist don't acknowledge a God or deity, even a personal god. They follow the path of Buddha who is a man.

They acknowledge a life-force that is equivalent to divinity. It’s all window-dressing. Christians say “Potato,” Buddhists say “Potahto.”

 

[metis]

They acknowledge a life-force that is equivalent to divinity. It’s all window-dressing. Christians say “Potato,” Buddhists say “Potahto.”

As a point of clarification, the Buddha did not say one way or the other whether there's a creator-god, only that such a question is basically irrelevant to the here & now.

BTW, the single most thought provoking theology book I've ever read is "The Monk and the Philosopher: A Father and Son Discuss the Meaning of Life" by Matthieu Ricard and Jean-Francois Revel. Ricard is a scientist who left to be a Buddhism monk working with the Dalai Lama in India. The book is a friendly but very DEEP debate between he and his father, and it's one of those book whereas you read a page or two and then sit back and try absorb whatcha just read.

 

[Trailblazer]

The bible doesn't say there is another way . So either The bible/ Jesus is wrong or all other religions are wrong . They all can't be right .

The reason the New Testament doesn't say there is another way is because the New Testament was written for the Dispensation of Jesus and during that dispensation Jesus was the way to God, but there have been other ways to God throughout human history, before and after the New Testament was recorded.

The Bible and Jesus is not wrong because it does not say that there have never been any other ways or that there will never be any more ways after the New Testament and Jesus. Those were just a snapshot in time, one part of human history.

The religions can all be right and they have to be right if they were all revealed by the one true God, which is what I believe. Different religions are just like different chapters in one Book of God, chapters that have unfolded throughout human history.

 

[Trailblazer]

As a point of clarification, the Buddha did not say one way or the other whether there's a creator-god, only that such a question is basically irrelevant to the here & now.

How can we know what the Buddha said? We have no original writings of the Buddha? All we have are what was passed down by oral tradition and written by others, and much is lost during that process.

What happened since Buddha appeared is that over the passage of time the religion of Buddha became entirely changed and altered. As such, the followers got away from what the Buddha taught and came to believe something entirely different. That explains why most Buddhists do not believe in God.

"The founder of Buddhism was a wonderful soul. He established the Oneness of God, but later the original principles of His doctrines gradually disappeared, and ignorant customs and ceremonials arose and increased until they finally ended in the worship of statues and images" Some Answered Questions, p. 165

 

[Trailblazer]

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Baha’u’llah cannot be the anti-christ you speak of because He did not do any of those things.

If you read the bible it says in Thessalonians that there will be a ' man ' who will appear before the great tribulation , who is going to look like he's bringing peace to the world . This is the anti christ .

Baha’u’llah cannot be the Anti-Christ because..........

The Bible says that the Anti-Christ:

1. Denies that Jesus is the Christ. ** Baha'u'llah affirms that Jesus is the Christ.

1 John Chapter 2
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

2. Denies the Father and the Son. ** Baha'u'llah affirms the Father and the Son.

1 John Chapter 2
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

3. Denies that Jesus came in the flesh and cleansed us of sin.
** Baha'u'llah affirms that Jesus came in the flesh and cleansed us of sin.

1 John Chapter 4
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
** Baha'u'llah confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
** Baha'u'llah was not already in the world when John was written.

1 John Chapter 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
** Baha'u'llah wrote that Jesus cleansed us of sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
** Baha'u'llah acknowledged that we have sin.

4. Is equated with deceivers and linked with false prophets.

1 John Chapter 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
** Baha'u'llah is not linked to any false prophets because He had good fruits (Matthew 7:16-20).

5. Is already in the world during the writing of the epistles of John (100 AD)

1 John Chapter 4
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
** Baha'u'llah was not already in the world when John was written.

6. Is a former Christian.

1 John Chapter 2
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
** Baha'u'llah was not a former Christian. He was a former Muslim.

 

[John1.12]

Prove it.

My point is that there's a difference between "belief" and "proof", and that it is very important to recognize that difference and respond accordingly, imo. This also allows others the dignity of feeling the same way about their scriptures or differences of opinion with the scriptures you both share.

Certainty is the enemy of sound theology.

" Certainty is the enemy of sound theology." I agree that we should be comfortable with uncertainty or to hold things in high probability space .

 

[John1.12]

So, the Bible is correct and factual in its implication that the earth is disc-shaped? Interesting...

Isaiah 40:22

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:”

 

[Trailblazer]

Matt 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

It is an interesting verse for you because it shows that the one who comes in the name of the Lord and will be seen by the Jews of Jesus day will be Jesus.
It should also be interesting for you because the Jews of Jesus day did not see Baha'u'llah.

Without looking at the context I jumped the gun and thought it could be about Baha’u’llah since He came in the name of the Lord, but looking at it in context I can see that Jesus is referring to Himself. Jesus is saying that eventually the Jews will know who Jesus was and say “Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

I looked at verse commentaries and they were all over the board, but the one that makes most sense is the following.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Ye shall not see me ... - The day of your mercy is gone by. I have offered you protection and salvation, and you have rejected it. You are about to crucify me, and your temple to be destroyed, and you, as a nation, to be given up to long and dreadful suffering. You will not see me as a merciful Saviour, offering you redemption any more, until you have borne these heavy judgments. They must come upon you, and be borne, until you would be glad to hail a deliverer, and say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Blessed be he that comes as the Messiah, to bring deliverance. This has not been yet accomplished, but the days will come when the Jews, long cast out and rejected, will hail Jesus as the Messiah, and receive him whom their fathers killed as the merciful Saviour, Romans 11:25-32.

That day has not come yet but that day will indeed come when the Jews will hail Jesus as the Messiah, when the Jews recognize Baha’u’llah who taught that Jesus was the Messiah and their Savior.

The ""glory of the Father"" in Mark 8:38 and Luke 9:26 does not refer to Baha'u'lla. If it did then it means that Baha'u'llah is not only the glory of God but is also the "glory of the holy angels".
Yes the Bible is so accurate it tells us in a few words about the errors of false Christ.
But of course you end up ignoring that bit of the verses (about the holy angels)

Because you believe that these verses mean that Jesus will come in the literal clouds and there will be angels with Him, that is why you believe what you do about the holy angels.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

But “with the holy angels” does not mean that angels will come out of the sky in the clouds with the Son of Man because the Son of Man was never going to come out of the sky in the clouds. To explain in brief, the ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Baha’u’llah did come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels, and the holy angels are holy beings who are reinforced by the power of the spirit, and have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations.

“And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim..... And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.”
Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80

just as you ignore that no ancient Jews saw Baha'u'llah and that the Comforter and Spirit of Truth in John 14, 15, 16 refer to the Holy Spirit, who is the other Comforter who actually did come to the disciples Jesus was speaking to and lived in them as the scripture says and which Baha'u'llah did not.

The Holy Spirit proceeds only from God. The Holy Spirit was sent by God to Jesus and descended upon Jesus as a Dove. The Holy Spirit was sent by God to Baha’u’llah and descended upon Baha’u’llah as a Maiden in the Black Pit prison in 1852 AD.

Having received the Holy Spirit from God, both Jesus and Bahaullah brought the Holy Spirit to humanity. The Comforter and Spirit of truth are just titles for the man who brings the Holy Spirit. Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter who taught all things and testified of Jesus.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Baha'u'llah was also called the Spirit of truth because He guided us into all truth and He glorified Jesus. He did not speak of Himself, He only spoke what He heard from the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit speaking through Baha'u'llah that taught us all things, not the man.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

 

[sojourner]

Isaiah 40:22

“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:”

Nope. The earth isn’t a circle. A circle is two-dimensional. And that conflicts with Genesis 1, which describes the heavens as a hammered out dome — not a curtain. A dome will only fit over a disc. This simply doesn’t describe what we know about the earth and the heavens. The Bible is incorrect here.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes that is right, the Son of Man that Jesus spoke of is Jesus.
If you want to draw a line between the son of man that Jesus spoke of in one place and the son of man he spoke of in another, that is up to you and is reading into the Bible what Baha'u'llah claims about himself while offering no evidence from God that he is whom he claims.

I did not draw that line, Jesus drew that line when he differentiated Himself for the Son of Man who would come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
There are clearly two different individuals being referred to in these verses -- me and the Son of man.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Baha'u'llah never claimed to be the Son of Man, I figured that out all by myself by reading the Bible.

The Bible is the only evidence you have for Jesus and likewise what Baha'u'llah wrote and did on His mission is evidence that He is who He claimed to be. Besides that, there is additional evidence that backs the truth of Baha'u'llah's claims.

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

 

[John1.12]

The reason the New Testament doesn't say there is another way is because the New Testament was written for the Dispensation of Jesus and during that dispensation Jesus was the way to God, but there have been other ways to God throughout human history, before and after the New Testament was recorded.

The Bible and Jesus is not wrong because it does not say that there have never been any other ways or that there will never be any more ways after the New Testament and Jesus. Those were just a snapshot in time, one part of human history.

The religions can all be right and they have to be right if they were all revealed by the one true God, which is what I believe. Different religions are just like different chapters in one Book of God, chapters that have unfolded throughout human history.

Are you aware of the " all roads lead to God " thing ? It is a thing . I've no idea who originated it . I just know its a popular thought. In my years of new age philosophy, I used to think this catchy phrase.

 

[John1.12]

Nope. The earth isn’t a circle. A circle is two-dimensional. And that conflicts with Genesis 1, which describes the heavens as a hammered out dome — not a curtain. A dome will only fit over a disc. This simply doesn’t describe what we know about the earth and the heavens. The Bible is incorrect here.

I suspect if the bible was literally describing the absolute detail of every molecule you would find something to confirm your presupposition s and bias .

 

[John1.12]

Nope. The earth isn’t a circle. A circle is two-dimensional. And that conflicts with Genesis 1, which describes the heavens as a hammered out dome — not a curtain. A dome will only fit over a disc. This simply doesn’t describe what we know about the earth and the heavens. The Bible is incorrect here.

Hammered out dome ? which translation is that ?

 

[sojourner]

I suspect if the bible was literally describing the absolute detail of every molecule you would find something to confirm your presupposition s and bias .

Hey, you’re the one who claimed the Bible was factual and correct...

 

[sojourner]

Hammered out dome ? which translation is that ?

The Hebrew word translated as “heavens” is “raqiya.” It literally means “a hammered out bowl.” The Bible says the heavens are rigid and bowl-shaped.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you aware of the " all roads lead to God " thing ? It is a thing . I've no idea who originated it . I just know its a popular thought. In my years of new age philosophy, I used to think this catchy phrase.

I never said that all roads lead to God, I said that all true religions lead to God.
The Baha'i Faith teaches that there is only one God and many Messengers of God who establish new religions in every age.