Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Not if one is debating if Christianity is truly in line with the Hebrew texts.
We all of a sudden have a trinity god, a god/human son, etc. Pagan.
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Christianity must change or die
- Thread starter fallingblood
- Start date
Not if one is debating if Christianity is truly in line with the Hebrew texts.
We all of a sudden have a trinity god, a god/human son, etc. Pagan.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Not really Pagan. The idea of the trinity has a foundation in the binitarian view in which is seen in Judaism from that time.
Also the God/human son thing really is more complicated as they are seen to be equal in some sense. Not really similar to Pagan ideas.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Binitarianism is Christian theology. The Jewish people reject it absolutely.
I have looked at most verses which Christian claim prove Iesous is God. None of them actually say that, or have to be taken that way.
I still have issues with 1+1+1=1
Or, rather it's 'so-called Christians' [ Christendom ] say Jesus is God.
Scripture teaches Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God. - Rev. 3 v 14.
God had No beginning.- Psalm 90 v 2
Only God was before the beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Revamp the bible because it seems it does not meet the speculations of many and tries to set doubt in the minds of believers?
To understand the tolerances of a loving God, one must first understand the sacrifice made in our behalf.
Our ability to reason between two opposing points, (Good and evil) gives us god like abilities. "They have become as one of us"
You think that being god like is reason enough to become a separate entity from God?
If Jesus (The ultimate sacrifice) would not have being offered, then we all would have being offered to eternal destination, which is eternal nothingness. Or as though, we never existed.
That right there is the core of our whole existence!
Now, in working in, in answer to the OP's comments about Christianities changes, there is allot of truth in it.
For example, when Jesus paid the price of death ( Physical as well as eternal) He did so for all humanity. Otherwise, God would not have loved His creation so, that He would have made other paths and ways to gaining eternal existence.
One soul, for all creation was predetermined to die so that creation would be without fault.
That friends, is where Gods tolerance comes into play.
The question now is, can we follow God's leading in tolerance in our intolerance strictly on our own strenght of belief?
That would be the day when God would not be needed.
Love then is......the key, that if all religious beliefs, would attempt to practice, would end all differences.
But because we are as gods, we reserve the right to practice what we want and not what is given as an antidote for intolerance's.
So it becomes a progressive growth through trials and tribulations that one comes to an understanding of God's love and how He applies it to all. Great or small.
So, yes, question your beliefs, but do it honestly, giving your self the benefit of the doubt and not believe condemnation as a consequence.
The only time I become intolerant is when life is threatened by reason of a religious belief.
The potential for evil will always exist as a choice, but good is always the better choice.
Now, evil is an instrument by which good is created. Evil we have, but good has to be created. Only in an environment, such as like in the flesh, in a fleshly endeared world, can we overcome it by the strength of the creator God in us.
Without Him, we are helpless.
Blessings, AJ
To understand the tolerances of a loving God, one must first understand the sacrifice made in our behalf.
Our ability to reason between two opposing points, (Good and evil) gives us god like abilities. "They have become as one of us"
You think that being god like is reason enough to become a separate entity from God?
If Jesus (The ultimate sacrifice) would not have being offered, then we all would have being offered to eternal destination, which is eternal nothingness. Or as though, we never existed.
That right there is the core of our whole existence!
Now, in working in, in answer to the OP's comments about Christianities changes, there is allot of truth in it.
For example, when Jesus paid the price of death ( Physical as well as eternal) He did so for all humanity. Otherwise, God would not have loved His creation so, that He would have made other paths and ways to gaining eternal existence.
One soul, for all creation was predetermined to die so that creation would be without fault.
That friends, is where Gods tolerance comes into play.
The question now is, can we follow God's leading in tolerance in our intolerance strictly on our own strenght of belief?
That would be the day when God would not be needed.
Love then is......the key, that if all religious beliefs, would attempt to practice, would end all differences.
But because we are as gods, we reserve the right to practice what we want and not what is given as an antidote for intolerance's.
So it becomes a progressive growth through trials and tribulations that one comes to an understanding of God's love and how He applies it to all. Great or small.
So, yes, question your beliefs, but do it honestly, giving your self the benefit of the doubt and not believe condemnation as a consequence.
The only time I become intolerant is when life is threatened by reason of a religious belief.
The potential for evil will always exist as a choice, but good is always the better choice.
Now, evil is an instrument by which good is created. Evil we have, but good has to be created. Only in an environment, such as like in the flesh, in a fleshly endeared world, can we overcome it by the strength of the creator God in us.
Without Him, we are helpless.
Blessings, AJ
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
No, binitarianism is also Jewish theology of that time. It is not that hard to find references to two natures of God in Jewish scripture. Daniel Boyarin, a Jewish scholar, also makes a wonderful argument for this.
As for the verses that state Jesus is God or equal to God, I can't really comment as I have no idea of what specific verses you are talking about. And regardless, the Christian theology here is that Jesus is God and that ideology goes back to the early church.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
It doesn't have to be 1+1+1=1 though. One could make the argument that it is just three forms. When one really gets into Trinitarin theology, it becomes much more complicated.
Yes it does, but the trinity is not mentioned much before 300 AD right?
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Actually it is not. There is plenty of Jewish material on this out there. The reality of your "Jewish theology of the time" - is the sect becoming mixed with the Greek ideas. The original Elohiym are probably the God and Goddess - then the switch to one male god.
fallingblood said:
Any of them that they use to preach that theology. And of course it goes back to the early church. The Nicene Councils were fighting over Iesous being god, or just a man. And that alone tells us the original Hebrew idea was that the messiah would be a MAN, and a group broke from this Torah truth.
Actually we see it in the Bible.
And was written when?
Sorry Rick, don't what what it is you're asking.
Where? Isn't Jesus the beginning of the creation by God according to Rev. 3 v 14 ?
Did God have a beginning?_______ [ Psalm 90 v 2 ]
Only God was 'before' the beginning.
Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
We see the concept for the Trinity throughout the Holy Scriptures. Nowhere does it teach that God "created" Jesus Christ. (John 1)
How can we say God was before the "beginning" when God is outside of time and nothing precedes God. Read Genesis 1: "In the beginning God..."
How can Christ be the beginning of the creation when he created all things?
When Jesus was resurrected, the whole of creation was resurrected in Him, making Him the beginning of an all new spiritual creation of which should never end.
Implied: The trinity is extrapolated from the bible in whole in the following manner:
1. God the Father as creator of heaven and earth and mankind.
2. Jesus as creator of an all new heaven and earth's, meaning, bridging the gap between heaven and earth; opening heavens doors being shut.
3. Holy Spirit indwelling as in abiding with us continuously, as the changer of hearts, comforter, friend, counselor, spouse, brother, sister, mother or dad.
Jesus said: Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
To get specific in detail, the bible is left for our seeking. If we really want to know about God's mysteries, seek Him out and ye shall find.
Here is one verse that opened up the scriptures for me: Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
That verse I believe is the key to understanding the deep mysteries of God's works.
Note the methodical sequences of numbers, visions, dreams, similitudes, multiplications, word associations, metaphors to extract the spiritual contents meanings.
Don't get stuck on one word definitions, hard to understand verses and religious interpretations.
The bible in whole is in total harmony inspired by the breath of God and open to those who seek it's mysteries to the joy of God.
Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
In doubt? search it out with prayer and thanksgiving, and He, God as Jesus, as the Holy Spirit shall give thee rest, meaning answers.
Blessings, AJ
The whole creation was resurrected with Jesus? We have yet to be resurrected. Are you saying that you believe in universalism, that all will be saved in the end?
Î Î¿Î»Ï ÏÎÏÏÏν Îʹ
Member
How supremely arrogant of liberals and religion-revisionists to demand that Christianity change to suit their wishes.
What I mean is a heaven and earth recreated to now accept all souls into God's kingdom where there was none before.
Jesus then is, in order to accomplish it in one single day, the whole seven day creation story, making Him the beginning, since the beginning, a new creation.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Meaning, Jesus is the end of the Father's beginning (death at the cross) and the creator of the new beginning. (Life at His resurrection)
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Therefore: 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
There is no other way under heaven by which mankind can find redemption, save God.
Blessings, AJ