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Christianity must change or die

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
..., Jesus was not just a human, He was both fully human and fully divine. Furthermore, Jesus never defined his followers as "Christians." The word wasn't used until after his death. Jesus didn't define a religion, He exhorted a way of life and commanded those who He taught to follow principles he laid out in order for them to receive eternal life.

Please post the Scripture where Jesus teaches he is fully human / fully divine [God ]

Until Jesus' death Jesus was under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law, so there would have been no reason to set up the Christian congregation until Pentecost.
Luke not only wrote the gospel according to Luke, but Luke also wrote the book of Acts.
Luke wrote that the disciples were first called Christians [after Pentecost] -Acts 11 v26
The apostle Peter [1st Peter 4 v 16] also chooses to use Christian.
Apparently Christianity as a religion was acknowledged by King Agrippa at Acts 26 v 28
Jesus' half brother also wrote about such organized worship at James 1 v 27.

Jesus taught an organized 'way of life' or the Christian religion.-John 13 vs 34,35
That religion, or form of worship, would be based on Christian principles and standards as 'organizationally outlined' in Scripture according to Luke at Acts 15 vs 20,29
Jesus taught that Scripture is religious truth.-John 17 v 17
Jesus taught what would be the 'first-century Christian's way of organized religious life'.
That worship or religion would worship God in spirit and truth.-John 4 vs 23,24
So, wasn't Jesus already pointing to a new method of worship [religion] based on the true nature of God ?

According to Psalm [90 v 2] doesn't it show God had No beginning?______
So, only God was 'before the beginning. God was never begotten.
Jesus however was Not 'before' the beginning as God was before the beginning.
John wrote at Revelation that Jesus is the 'beginning of the creation by God'.
- Rev. 3 v 14
Since God had No beginning whereas Jesus had a heavenly beginning as a creation.
That would make Jesus existing in the heavens before all other angels.
Jesus existing in the heavens before God sent Jesus to earth.
So, what Scripture shows Jesus as existing in the heavens before God existed ?
 

ErikErik

Member
These stories are from the Jews. I suggest you go and read what they say about them.

Since many Jewish people do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and are still waiting for their King, of course they also reject the New Testament and the miracles of Christ. Even those Jews who were eye witnesses when Christ performed miracles still didn't believe.

They have the save unbelief that you exhibit.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Exactly. Just like the Holy Scriptures have been diluted because of too much changes. Too many liberal "christians" and liberal professors claiming and teaching that God's word is not completely inspired or inerrant and thus have paved the way to younger people and unbelievers buying into this lie.

A "lie" for which you have no evidence is a lie. Interesting.
 

seeking4truth

Active Member
"Not one word has changed."

'one word' of what? In my lifetime the Bible has been re-edited several times andd on my bookshelf are several editions. Words have been changed, some of them significantly as they are when translated from Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic.
 

ErikErik

Member
"Not one word has changed."

'one word' of what? In my lifetime the Bible has been re-edited several times andd on my bookshelf are several editions. Words have been changed, some of them significantly as they are when translated from Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic.

One of the problems is that these modern bible versions have to change a certain number of words in order to qualify for a copyright. Otherwise, if they all say the very same thing it would be something akin to plagiarism.

With the KJB, there have been several editions but no revisions.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
A Modern Reformation of Christianity Articles « Belzian Educational Foundation

Christianity is a religion that has survived and flourished for nearly two thousand years. Through these years, it has changed, branched off, and evolved into what can be described as multiple Christianities. At the same time, much of Christianity has become stuck in the past, unwilling to change or improve. In the name of Christianity, atrocities are still committed, and intolerance justified. There are some forms of Christianity that has set out to rectify these wrongs; however, there are also those that refuse to make the changes that they need to. These forms of Christianity are now at a cross roads, in which they can choose to change for the better and continue into the 21st century, as respectable institutions, or they can slowly die out, leaving behind a legacy of intolerance, and disgust.

Before moving further though, it has to be realized that there is no single, defining form of Christianity. The religion, as would be expected, has changed many times throughout the course of its life, evolving into something better defined as multiple Christianities. Within this spectrum of Christianities, we see a vast variety of beliefs. We have on one side, those who see the Bible as infallible, the very word of God, and their form of Christianity as the only way. On the other side, we have those who see the Bible as an important historical or literary work, written by various different men for different reasons, and their form of Christianity only being one among many true ways.

This is important to realize as Christianity is extremely diverse. One form of Christianity does not define another form. What one group of Christians believe, is not necessarily what all Christians believe. By grouping all Christians together, one does an injustice to those Christians actively trying to make a difference, as well as isolate others who would have otherwise been willing to try to make matters better.

When I use the term Christianity in rest of this essay, I am referring to Christianity in general terms. I recognize that many Christians, and various forms of Christianities have already began changing for the better. I am not addressing those forms when I use the term Christianity. Instead, I am referring to the forms of Christianity that refuse to change, and insist of justifying intolerance, narrow mindedness, and unquestioning blind faith.

It should then be obvious as to why Christianity must change. The justification of intolerance is more than enough reason for a change to be made. It should be no surprise then that we see one of the major complaints about Christianity being that it is an intolerant religion. I see no better example than the consistent protests that are seen in European countries when the Pope visits. Without fail, we see charges of intolerance being leveled at the Church with each visit. Intolerance towards homosexuals, and the intolerance towards women (in the form of refusing to ordain women), are issues that are brought up repeatedly when the Pope goes to visit. This is clearly a sign that there is a major backlash against this intolerance that is being condoned and justified by a religion.

It is not just the intolerance towards groups of individuals that is the problem though. It is also the narrow minded thinking that many Christians, and in general the religious, are guilty of. The idea that “my way is the only right way” needs to be abandoned. The condemnation of an eternity in hell, for those who choose to believe in a way different than ones own, needs to be abandoned. Such a position is arrogant, and foolish. It shows the exact opposite of what Jesus said was one of the most important commandments; that is to love one's neighbor. One can not truly love their neighbor and at the same time condemn them to hell.

To have a god that condemns the vast majority of individuals to hell simply is not a loving god. It is a god full of hatred, and simply is pitiful. God does not have to be that way. One can truly believe in an all loving God, and still be true to their religion. One can believe in a God who is not so spiteful that it would send those who do not believe in it to hell for eternity (even though that God refuses to supply any evidence for it's existence, but relies on the follower to have faith). What it really comes down to though is the acceptance of others. It is becoming a little more humble, and acknowledging that they are not some extremely special individual that has been granted one of the few places in heaven. What is needed is for Christians to stop being so arrogant, so self-centered, that they believe only they are good enough to be worthy of all of God's love. Really, it means maturing.

It also means though that one should feel free to challenge their beliefs, and not just simply follow them blindly. When a religion is so easily used to justify atrocious acts, that religion needs to be questioned, and challenged. But even more so, the leaders, and member of that religion that allow their religion to be violated in such a disgusting manner, need to be challenged, and possibly removed from any form of power.

Christianity needs to be challenged. It needs to be questioned. It needs to change. For too long individuals have been allowed to hide behind a religion in order to justify their own intolerant beliefs. That is simply unacceptable, and should not be allowed any longer. And the people who must change this are other Christians. Christians can no longer allow others to sully the name of the faith they follow as well. They need to be the ones who instigate this change, that is long over due. It is no longer acceptable to simply stand aside and allow other Christians to continue to portray Christianity as a disgusting, and perverse belief system.

I just thought this one needed repeating --

"It also means though that one should feel free to challenge their beliefs, and not just simply follow them blindly. When a religion is so easily used to justify atrocious acts, that religion needs to be questioned, and challenged. But even more so, the leaders, and member of that religion that allow their religion to be violated in such a disgusting manner, need to be challenged, and possibly removed from any form of power."
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Not one word has changed. What has happened is that the prophets of the New Testament have been proved correct, that many antichrists have gone out, inventing new corruptions, if not caricatures, calling themselves 'Messiah', in effect.

No antichrist has been very successful, so the challenge of the gospel for mankind remains.

WHAT? That is absolutely WRONG!
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
One of the problems is that these modern bible versions have to change a certain number of words in order to qualify for a copyright. Otherwise, if they all say the very same thing it would be something akin to plagiarism.

With the KJB, there have been several editions but no revisions.

You are wrong! Not only have words and ideas changed - they actually originally had more books that they dumped for later editions.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Since many Jewish people do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, and are still waiting for their King, of course they also reject the New Testament and the miracles of Christ. Even those Jews who were eye witnesses when Christ performed miracles still didn't believe.

They have the save unbelief that you exhibit.

LOL! Or they saw no miracles. And your Iesous does not fulfill THEIR messiah requirements. They have said this over and over while Christians play the game of covering their ears.
 

ErikErik

Member
You are wrong! Not only have words and ideas changed - they actually originally had more books that they dumped for later editions.

It's easy to tell everybody we disagree with that they are wrong. You have offered nothing to substantiate your claim. I agree that words have changed and this can lead to a change in meaning sometimes.

What are these "books" that were dumped?
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Word changes in the bible to suit particular views? That is true, I wouldn’t argue against that.
However, the intended meanings of those words as written, not changed, are spiritual in nature.

Let’s look at a few words: “Mountains” are in reference to high offices/seats of government, such as the high priests authority of the nation of Israel, referenced to by Jesus as “Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

Same goes for “Hills,

Hab 3:6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

Others are: beasts, trees, clouds, fire, smoke, moon turning into blood, 3 days and 3 nights, serpent, visions, number repetitions, numbers multiplied and many many more.


Word changes, again are created to suit, yet in the original, they are not, for they meaning something that has to be determined by prayer and study.

Now, as far as Christianity is concerned, that will never die. It may evolve into a more perfect stature, that of Christ, but it will never die. As in: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Just what all does it mean, …“unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man”….?

Lets look at those three things in reverse and we shall see the awesome love of God us-ward.
“Unto a perfect man” means that we must acquire “knowledge of the Son of God” and then “unity of faith”.

Many have acquired knowledge of the Son of God but not unity of faith with Him.
Unity of faith means acquiring complete trust and reliance of Jesus being the sole Savior of our souls.

That is a condition which can be applied yet while we live, but if not, then at our departure shall we bow at His feet in complete conversion.

So does it matter than, based on that last statement that Christianity is diverse in its practices, and does it also mean that those who do not accept Jesus, as the Son of God for their salvation, will not also gain salvation by Jesus?

When Jesus died on the cross, paid the price for all of us, what religious belief/view was He espousing, or was He doing it for the whole of mankind?

The answer is the whole of mankind. Hence, there can be diversities of faith and not diminish the work of Jesus at the cross for the salvation of “all: mankind.
What these debates/discussions do is an attempt by God’s Spirit to create in all of us a love for each other, on our willingness, a unity of love with God as a direct relationship with Him resulting in a tolerance for other peoples beliefs. Thus uniting us in love and not in views.

Blessings, AJ







 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
It's easy to tell everybody we disagree with that they are wrong. You have offered nothing to substantiate your claim. I agree that words have changed and this can lead to a change in meaning sometimes.

What are these "books" that were dumped?

The 1611 KJV had more, books such as Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Barush, etc.

Just Google it.
 

ErikErik

Member
The 1611 KJV had more, books such as Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Barush, etc.

Just Google it.


I know all about it. The apocrypha was never considered scripture. It was only accepted reading based on historical, not inspirational value. Which was why it was placed between the old and new testament. They did not integrate it into the Old Testament text as do the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The 1611 KJV had more, books such as Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Barush, etc.

Just Google it.

Helpful in some respects in understanding some difficult passages.

But without them, the bible is more than sufficient to giving us good understanding.

What happens is that some have a problem understanding some difficult passages in the bible and become curious about other material out there that may help pro or con in gaining a better understanding.

I sought after many other materials in my quest to reach some understanding about questions I've had as a Christian.

I feel the Lord led me down a path of research that He felt and knew I would not be swayed away from my anchor; a solid and firm foundation which Jesus has laid.

Any version out their will lead one to that foundation......that is.......if we seek it with all our hearts!

Blessings, AJ
 

Pipehitter

New Member
Has changing standards simply to make it easier ever made anyone better? For us humans to suggest to change the standard set by God is rediculous, it makes more sence for us humans to grow up and meet the tougher standards already in place, humanity needs to stop being lazy, selfserving, leaches on what God has created and learn to Live by his Higher Standards.

Far too often we lower standards so that everyone can pass, however this is not reality, not everyone can win. Lowering standards gives a false sense of accomplishment, resulting in damage to the participant. The better option is to work harder on training to meet the given standard, while accepting that some will not be able to make the cut. After all a strong team is not made by passing the weakest players. We all will fail, that is the nature of things, lowering the standards is not the answer, teaching is. Teach those how are failing to make them stronger, so they can meet the established standards.
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Has changing standards simply to make it easier ever made anyone better? For us humans to suggest to change the standard set by God is rediculous, it makes more sence for us humans to grow up and meet the tougher standards already in place, humanity needs to stop being lazy, selfserving, leaches on what God has created and learn to Live by his Higher Standards.

Far too often we lower standards so that everyone can pass, however this is not reality, not everyone can win. Lowering standards gives a false sense of accomplishment, resulting in damage to the participant. The better option is to work harder on training to meet the given standard, while accepting that some will not be able to make the cut. After all a strong team is not made by passing the weakest players. We all will fail, that is the nature of things, lowering the standards is not the answer, teaching is. Teach those how are failing to make them stronger, so they can meet the established standards.

Well! I pretty much agree with the second paragraph - but not in relation to any religion. Most religions say their God's laws are the ones we need to follow.
 
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