Christianity vs Baha'i

[CG Didymus]

The New Testament also never implies that another Messiah will come. There is only one Messiah. The Old Testament verses that talk about the Messiah reappearing almost sounds like they are talking about two Messiahs but there is no New Testament equivalent.

Jews expected one. Christians expected one that will return. Baha'is have Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. If they are correct then Jews and Christians should have recognized the "Spirit" of Christ in Muhammad. And Muslims should all have recognized The Bab and Baha'u'llah. And the thing about there being two guys at the time of the end means that Baha'is believe that "dual" manifestations were predicted.

 

[Trailblazer]

If Jesus is physically dead they are still in their sin.

Sorry but no. It was the cross sacrifice that atoned for our sin, not the bodily resurrection, so it does not matter one iota if the body of Jesus rose from the grave, and Jesus never said it mattered.

And maybe that is so, but then Baha'is don't go that far. They still try and make everything about the NT and Jesus true... but only in the way they believe it and interpret it.

Likewise, Christians still try and make everything about the NT and Jesus true.....
but only in the way they believe it and interpret it.

It is sad that you cannot see that the Baha'is and Christians are in a level playing field because there is no more reason to believe the Christian interpretation of the NT than to believe the Baha'i interpretation.

 

[Skywalker]

Jews expected one. Christians expected one that will return. Baha'is have Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. If they are correct then Jews and Christians should have recognized the "Spirit" of Christ in Muhammad. And Muslims should all have recognized The Bab and Baha'u'llah. And the thing about there being two guys at the time of the end means that Baha'is believe that "dual" manifestations were predicted.

Why do you think Jewish people reject Jesus, since he came before the destruction of the second temple?

 

[CG Didymus]

Because it has spiritual meaning, which if we find those meanings, it benefits our souls progress in all the worlds of God, which are beyond time.

Regards Tony

Or it was an easy way to get from Adam to the time of Abraham with just a few generations having to be talked about. How about all the killing and battles in the Bible? And then of course the killing of even the women and children in Jericho. But God also had one Israelite soldier draw his sword and kill the soldier next to him. Maybe great spiritual meaning for you, but for me, like I've said before, it sounds like the myths and legends of an ancient warrior people telling stories about their warrior God.

 

[Trailblazer]

What does that mean? That he will come again unto them?

It means that the Spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, would come again. That is what Jesus promised.
in case you missed this:

But let's look at John 14:19 in the context of John 14. Jesus is saying that the world would see Him no more, but before that Jesus said that He would not leave you comfortless, which is congruent with all the other verses in John 14, 15 and 16 wherein Jesus said that he would send the Comforter from the Father.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

[CG Didymus]

Sorry but no. It was the cross sacrifice that atoned for our sin, not the bodily resurrection,

And now you are the Bible expert? Have you read Paul's epistles? I believe it is in Romans. He says that if Christ hasn't risen from the dead that they, the Christians, are still in their sin. The big deal is that, allegedly, Jesus conquered death, and therefore can be trusted to do as he said. I know it really doesn't matter, because Baha'is interpret things in anyway that best suits their beliefs, but Christians believe that the resurrection is just as important part, or even the most important part of the sacrifice and atoning death of Jesus.

 

[CG Didymus]

It means that the Spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, would come again. That is what Jesus promised.
in case you missed this:

But let's look at John 14:19 in the context of John 14. Jesus is saying that the world would see Him no more, but before that Jesus said that He would not leave you comfortless, which is congruent with all the other verses in John 14, 15 and 16 wherein Jesus said that he would send the Comforter from the Father.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Whatever you say. But that's not what Christians believe. But I know, they don't know the meaning of their own Scriptures as well as Baha'is, because God sealed up the Bible in Daniel. Right? Actually, I hope not. For me, the Baha'is, including Bill Sears and Abdul Baha seem a little off on their interpretations.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why do you think Jewish people reject Jesus, since he came before the destruction of the second temple?

I do think it is very similar to why Christians and others don't accept Baha'u'llah... not everything fits perfectly. Prophecies are way to general or vague to be convincing and both Jesus and Baha'u'llah, or Muhammad or The Bab establish peace.

 

[Skywalker]

And now you are the Bible expert? Have you read Paul's epistles? I believe it is in Romans. He says that if Christ hasn't risen from the dead that they, the Christians, are still in their sin. The big deal is that, allegedly, Jesus conquered death, and therefore can be trusted to do as he said. I know it really doesn't matter, because Baha'is interpret things in anyway that best suits their beliefs, but Christians believe that the resurrection is just as important part, or even the most important part of the sacrifice and atoning death of Jesus.

The ressurection showed that Jesus is God.

 

[Skywalker]

I do think it is very similar to why Christians and others don't accept Baha'u'llah... not everything fits perfectly. Prophecies are way to general or vague to be convincing and both Jesus and Baha'u'llah, or Muhammad or The Bab establish peace.

Why do you think the Bible is general or vague?

 

[Skywalker]

Baha'is have their pet verses. This is one of Tony's... the flesh amounts to nothing and Trailblazer's verses about the work of Jesus being finished. Like I say, why do they take these so literal and yet they exclude all the verses that talk about the resurrected Jesus. Those, they say, are metaphorical. And again, only because they need and want a dead and gone Jesus. For them, his body died and only his spirit lived on. It went to heaven. But since it is without its old body, it can't be returning.

Makes perfect sense to them. And it clears the way for their prophet to be the "spiritual" return of Christ. Same light, same spirit as Jesus, just a different body... and returning to Persia not Jerusalem. Bringing a bunch of laws and not saving grace. And not establishing peace but bringing a blue print of how to slowly work toward bringing peace. And not getting rid of evil people and putting an end to the tribulations, but letting evil people continues and more wars and plagues to keep happening and ravaging the Earth.

Bahai believe in the Bible and Jesus not ressurecting contradicts the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

And what is the correct, Baha'i, interpretation? All I ever here is that is didn't really happen... that, scientifically, it is impossible, that Jesus' body is dead? I have never heard one Baha'i say that Jesus rose physically from the dead. One Baha'is said that he believes the disciples took and hid his body. So, since you guys believe you have the real truth, what happened to his physical body? If he is dead, then why aren't the gospel stories just plain old wrong and probably a fabrication? Why does Abdul Baha' go into an elaborate "symbolic" interpretation?

A better question I why we should believe a story, when there is no proof that what happened in the story ever took place? How is a story proof that the story is true? What else do we have but that story? Do we have witnesses outside the story? Do we have any way of verifying that Jesus rise from the grave, aside from the NT stories that say He did?

What happened to anyone's physical body that lived 2000 years ago? Nobody knows, but that is not proof they rose from their graves! I just try to be logical.

I knew a Baha'i from the Planet Baha'i forum who was formerly Catholic and he said that Jesus might have risen from the grave, that it was possible, but that still did not change any of his Baha'i beliefs. Big deal if a body rose from the grave. It has no significance because all bodies die and decompose and the soul is the only thing that passes to the spiritual world. The body is not immortal, only the soul is immortal. Why all this fuss about a body? I consider it insignificant, as do the liberal Christians. It is the teachings of Jesus that matter and bestow eternal life upon the soul, not His body. By focusing in the bodily resurrection, Christians neglected the teachings of Jesus and the real reason Jesus came to earth. That is so sad.

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

 

[Trailblazer]

The New Testament also never implies that another Messiah will come. There is only one Messiah. The Old Testament verses that talk about the Messiah reappearing almost sounds like they are talking about two Messiahs but there is no New Testament equivalent.

Messiah is just a title. The Old Testament refers to two Messiahs, one that came 2000 years ago and another one who would come in the End Times, but the New Testament refers to the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth, which would be the return of Christ and the End Times Messiah spoken of in the Old Testament.

 

[Trailblazer]

And now you are the Bible expert? Have you read Paul's epistles? I believe it is in Romans. He says that if Christ hasn't risen from the dead that they, the Christians, are still in their sin. The big deal is that, allegedly, Jesus conquered death, and therefore can be trusted to do as he said. I know it really doesn't matter, because Baha'is interpret things in anyway that best suits their beliefs, but Christians believe that the resurrection is just as important part, or even the most important part of the sacrifice and atoning death of Jesus.

Why the double standard? Why can't you understand that BOTH the Baha'is and the Christians interpret things according to their beliefs?

No, I am no Bible expert but I know 1 Corinthians 15 practically by heart, so you are not telling me anything I don't know, but as you might have guessed, the Baha'is have a different interpretation than the Christians. I just remembered that I saved a BahaiTeachings.org article on this subject that does a great job of explaining the meaning of rising from the dead.

Why can't you just accept that the Christians got it wrong? Paul never said that physical bodies will rise from their graves as Christians believe they will.

As the article below says "Paul depicts resurrection as spiritual, not physical. He says plainly that the “body” resurrected is not the physical body that is “sown” and that a “natural body” is followed by a “spiritual body”. He makes it clear that this spiritual body is nothing like the physical one, and uses two metaphors to make this point: the difference between mature grain and bare seed, and the difference between a moon and a sun."

What Paul said above is exactly what Baha'is believe.

Here is the whole article:

Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

The views expressed in our content reflect individual perspectives and do not represent the official views of the Baha'i Faith.

[Editor’s Note: This is the tenth installment of a multi-part essay called “Questions from a Clergyman”. Click here to read from the beginning.]

In a series of “Cult Nights” a local church held to investigate the Baha’i Faith, Pastor Dan’s penultimate “Cult Night” question was about resurrection. He asked:

“Doesn’t the Bible teach a physical Resurrection?”

The Apostle Paul deals with this subject in I Corinthians 15. Theologians use this letter as the foundation of the doctrine that without physical resurrection of the human body, a Christian’s faith is in vain.

Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

Paul goes on to offer a description of what “resurrection” means. In I Corinthians I 15:35-55, he writes:

But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain… There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit….

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”

Here, Paul depicts resurrection as spiritual, not physical. He says plainly that the “body” resurrected is not the physical body that is “sown” and that a “natural body” is followed by a “spiritual body”. He makes it clear that this spiritual body is nothing like the physical one, and uses two metaphors to make this point: the difference between mature grain and bare seed, and the difference between a moon and a sun.

A moon, an inert rock that casts no radiance of its own, can only reflect what shines on it — an apt metaphor when applied to the human condition. A sun, made of a different substance altogether, sheds its own radiance. “So also is the resurrection of the dead,” Paul says. “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.”

Christ’s resurrection, of course, is the prototype of the resurrection of the human soul. His victory over death illustrates the potential of the believer: “But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.” (I Corinthians 15:23). It follows that if Christ’s resurrection is a spiritual one, then so must ours be. Paul makes this exact point when he compares and contrasts the “first Adam” (a “living being”) with “the last Adam” (Christ), whom he says is “a life-giving spirit.”

Further, Paul states emphatically that “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” Here he quotes the words of Jesus to Nicodemus. Recall the context for these words originally: Jesus tells Nicodemus he must be reborn—not of flesh, but of the spirit. What, after all, is Christ’s message about real life? Is it the life of the body, or the life of the spirit?

I think this sheds a light on the “mystery” Paul speaks of in the verses above — that all shall not “sleep” (that is, die) but shall be changed. If the change stands for the spiritual transformation of rebirth, this makes perfect sense, since it is something that happens to those who are physically alive, but spiritually dead.

Clearly, Paul does not preach a physical resurrection for Jesus or for us, yet this spiritual resurrection is what he calls upon the believers to have faith in and concludes: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”

This seems consistent with what Christ tells us: “the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life. – John 6:63.

It also reflects the words of Baha’u’llah on the subject, which I shared with a group of Pastor Dan’s congregants:

The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. … The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation. – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 157.

Would it surprise you to hear that my new Christian friends agreed that there was no conflict between what Paul and Baha’u’llah said? The soul remains indescribable — a spiritual essence, not a physical one.

Next time: The Baha’i Faith and the Church Councils: Baha’i and Church Doctrine

Read the previous article in the series: False Prophet?

Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahai believe in the Bible and Jesus not ressurecting contradicts the Bible.

There are also Christians who do not believe that Jesus rose from the grave, yet they are reading the same Bible as you are.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.

Later, perhaps after Paul's death, there was great disappointment within the Christian communities because Jesus had not returned as expected. They diverted their focus of attention away from Jesus' second coming. They studied his life and death more intensely. Legends without a historical basis were created by the early church; these included the empty tomb and described Jesus returning in his original body to eat and talk with his followers.

In previous centuries, almost all Christians believed in miracles as described in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). These included creation, the story of Adam and Eve, a talking serpent, the great flood of Noah, the drying up of the Red/Reed sea, a prophet riding on a talking ***, the sun stopping in the sky, etc. From the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), they believed in the virgin birth, the Christmas star, angels appearing to the shepherds, Jesus healing the sick, etc. Many, perhaps most, liberal Christians now believe that these stories are not to be interpreted literally as real events. Their faith has not been damaged by losing faith in the reality of these events. A growing number of liberals are now taking the final step by interpreting the stories of Jesus' resurrection and his appearances to his followers and to Paul as other than real events. Retired bishop John Shelby Spong commented:

"I do admit that for Christians to enter this subject honestly is to invite great anxiety. It is to walk the razor's edge, to run the risk of cutting the final cord still binding many to the faith of their mothers and fathers. But the price for refusing to enter this consideration is for me even higher. The inability to question reveals that one has no confidence that one's belief system will survive such an inquiry. That is a tacit recognition that on unconscious levels, one's faith has already died. If one seeks to protect God from truth or new insights, then God has surely already died." 3

http://www.religioustolerance.org/resur_lt.htm

 

[Skywalker]

Why the double standard? Why can't you understand that BOTH the Baha'is and the Christians interpret things according to their beliefs?

No, I am no Bible expert but I know 1 Corinthians 15 practically by heart, so you are not telling me anything I don't know, but as you might have guessed, the Baha'is have a different interpretation than the Christians. I just remembered that I saved a BahaiTeachings.org article on this subject that does a great job of explaining the meaning of rising from the dead.

Why can't you just accept that the Christians got it wrong? Paul never said that physical bodies will rise from their graves as Christians believe they will.

As the article below says "Paul depicts resurrection as spiritual, not physical. He says plainly that the “body” resurrected is not the physical body that is “sown” and that a “natural body” is followed by a “spiritual body”. He makes it clear that this spiritual body is nothing like the physical one, and uses two metaphors to make this point: the difference between mature grain and bare seed, and the difference between a moon and a sun."

What Paul said above is exactly what Baha'is believe.

Here is the whole article:

Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

The views expressed in our content reflect individual perspectives and do not represent the official views of the Baha'i Faith.

[Editor’s Note: This is the tenth installment of a multi-part essay called “Questions from a Clergyman”. Click here to read from the beginning.]

In a series of “Cult Nights” a local church held to investigate the Baha’i Faith, Pastor Dan’s penultimate “Cult Night” question was about resurrection. He asked:

“Doesn’t the Bible teach a physical Resurrection?”

The Apostle Paul deals with this subject in I Corinthians 15. Theologians use this letter as the foundation of the doctrine that without physical resurrection of the human body, a Christian’s faith is in vain.

Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

Paul goes on to offer a description of what “resurrection” means. In I Corinthians I 15:35-55, he writes:

But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain… There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit….

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”

Here, Paul depicts resurrection as spiritual, not physical. He says plainly that the “body” resurrected is not the physical body that is “sown” and that a “natural body” is followed by a “spiritual body”. He makes it clear that this spiritual body is nothing like the physical one, and uses two metaphors to make this point: the difference between mature grain and bare seed, and the difference between a moon and a sun.

A moon, an inert rock that casts no radiance of its own, can only reflect what shines on it — an apt metaphor when applied to the human condition. A sun, made of a different substance altogether, sheds its own radiance. “So also is the resurrection of the dead,” Paul says. “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.”

Christ’s resurrection, of course, is the prototype of the resurrection of the human soul. His victory over death illustrates the potential of the believer: “But every man in his own order: Christ the first-fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.” (I Corinthians 15:23). It follows that if Christ’s resurrection is a spiritual one, then so must ours be. Paul makes this exact point when he compares and contrasts the “first Adam” (a “living being”) with “the last Adam” (Christ), whom he says is “a life-giving spirit.”

Further, Paul states emphatically that “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” Here he quotes the words of Jesus to Nicodemus. Recall the context for these words originally: Jesus tells Nicodemus he must be reborn—not of flesh, but of the spirit. What, after all, is Christ’s message about real life? Is it the life of the body, or the life of the spirit?

I think this sheds a light on the “mystery” Paul speaks of in the verses above — that all shall not “sleep” (that is, die) but shall be changed. If the change stands for the spiritual transformation of rebirth, this makes perfect sense, since it is something that happens to those who are physically alive, but spiritually dead.

Clearly, Paul does not preach a physical resurrection for Jesus or for us, yet this spiritual resurrection is what he calls upon the believers to have faith in and concludes: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”

This seems consistent with what Christ tells us: “the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life. – John 6:63.

It also reflects the words of Baha’u’llah on the subject, which I shared with a group of Pastor Dan’s congregants:

The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. … The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation. – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 157.

Would it surprise you to hear that my new Christian friends agreed that there was no conflict between what Paul and Baha’u’llah said? The soul remains indescribable — a spiritual essence, not a physical one.

Next time: The Baha’i Faith and the Church Councils: Baha’i and Church Doctrine

Read the previous article in the series: False Prophet?

Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

The book of revelation mentions the first and second ressurection.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The book of revelation mentions the first and second ressurection.

It mentions 3

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

There are also Christians who do not believe that Jesus rose from the grave, yet they are reading the same Bible as you are.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.

Later, perhaps after Paul's death, there was great disappointment within the Christian communities because Jesus had not returned as expected. They diverted their focus of attention away from Jesus' second coming. They studied his life and death more intensely. Legends without a historical basis were created by the early church; these included the empty tomb and described Jesus returning in his original body to eat and talk with his followers.

In previous centuries, almost all Christians believed in miracles as described in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). These included creation, the story of Adam and Eve, a talking serpent, the great flood of Noah, the drying up of the Red/Reed sea, a prophet riding on a talking ***, the sun stopping in the sky, etc. From the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), they believed in the virgin birth, the Christmas star, angels appearing to the shepherds, Jesus healing the sick, etc. Many, perhaps most, liberal Christians now believe that these stories are not to be interpreted literally as real events. Their faith has not been damaged by losing faith in the reality of these events. A growing number of liberals are now taking the final step by interpreting the stories of Jesus' resurrection and his appearances to his followers and to Paul as other than real events. Retired bishop John Shelby Spong commented:

"I do admit that for Christians to enter this subject honestly is to invite great anxiety. It is to walk the razor's edge, to run the risk of cutting the final cord still binding many to the faith of their mothers and fathers. But the price for refusing to enter this consideration is for me even higher. The inability to question reveals that one has no confidence that one's belief system will survive such an inquiry. That is a tacit recognition that on unconscious levels, one's faith has already died. If one seeks to protect God from truth or new insights, then God has surely already died." 3

Beliefs of progressive Christians, secularists, etc. about Jesus' resurrection

The Book of Romans mentions believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead.

 

[Skywalker]

It mentions 3

Regards Tony

It mentions the ressurection of the sinful and the righteous.

 

[Trailblazer]

The book of revelation mentions the first and second ressurection.

That could be interpreted to mean any number of things.