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Christianity vs. spiritualism, sorcery, and witchcraft

blackout

Violet.
Ah. The usual religious excuse of having to believe first without providing a single reason to actually believe.

Jar,

Perhaps the reason, for 'believing'
is simply the experience of it.
Like anything else really.

There are of course many ways/nuances of "belief",
there are also many things one could make
the focal point of their "belief".

IME, The realm of "Suspended Disbelief"
is more generally global, and easier to play with
than "hardcore belief".

But,
If you REALLY wanted to experience "belief in jesus",
for example,
there really is only one way to do it.:shrug:
(ie., just do it)

If that doesn't interest you,
maybe go out for a jog instead.
 
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Are there any Christian sects or denominations which would openly tolerate pagan beliefs and practices amongst it's congregations i.e. Wicca, witchcraft, sorcery, black magic, spiritualism, spiritism, occultism, reincarnation, and freemasonary?

Could a churchgoer be rightly considered a "christian" - at least in a nominal sense - if he/she secretly has such beliefs and practices, which are not made known to the other members of the church?

I would appreciate a definitive answer from an authoritative source. Please give reasons to support your answers.

Black.knight, Rosicrucianism is the closest religion I know of that would fit the criteria your looking for.Lots of info. on the internet about them.
 
Ah. The usual religious excuse of having to believe first without providing a single reason to actually believe.

Let me a pose a hypothetical question, can someone who doesn't have kids understand the love a parent has for their children? I know many people who when they had kids it completely changed their lives because there is no experience like it, and you can't simulate to the full extent of what it is like to have a kid.

Can someone pretend to feel that moment of triumph of winning the Superbowl when they haven't even played football? Can you understand what it is like to save someones life when you have no experience?

What I am saying that is for any kind of belief or emotion you have to experience it to fully understand it. The only difference between religion or family is that the only way to comprehend religion is for God to touch your life (or to realize and fully believe that God has touched your life).

I'm not saying believe because I believe, you asked why I believe and I gave you my answer.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Let me a pose a hypothetical question, can someone who doesn't have kids understand the love a parent has for their children? I know many people who when they had kids it completely changed their lives because there is no experience like it, and you can't simulate to the full extent of what it is like to have a kid.

Can someone pretend to feel that moment of triumph of winning the Superbowl when they haven't even played football? Can you understand what it is like to save someones life when you have no experience?

Feelings does not equate truth.
Your claim was a claim about reality and how reality works.
True, feelings are a part of that reality, but our feelings about reality does not amount to truth about reality.

I'm not saying believe because I believe, you asked why I believe and I gave you my answer.

That's not what I asked.
I asked how you know that you're not deluding yourself.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Jar,

Perhaps the reason, for 'believing'
is simply the experience of it.
Like anything else really.

There are of course many ways/nuances of "belief",
there are also many things one could make
the focal point of their "belief".

IME, The realm of "Suspended Disbelief"
is more generally global, and easier to play with
than "hardcore belief".

But,
If you REALLY wanted to experience "belief in jesus",
for example,
there really is only one way to do it.:shrug:
(ie., just do it)

If that doesn't interest you,
maybe go out for a jog instead.

I have this Christian friend who I sometimes discuss, well, just about anything with, including religion. And he, being a somewhat logical person, concedes that there is no logical or reasonable basis for his faith. Instead he says that he keeps his faith because it makes him feel good, and seeing as he doesn't harm anyone with it, he reasons that he might as well keep doing it.
And I have no problem with it for one simple reason: He doesn't claim that what he believes is true. He never says to anyone that there -is- a god or that Jesus -was- the son of this god. He never makes a factual claim in that regard.

I have absolutely no problem with people believing whatever they like as long as they 1. do not harm anyone (including of course, their children), and 2. does not present their faith to other people as if it was factual.
When dealing with facts you need more than belief, feelings or whatnot. You need evidence, logic and empiricism.

That was the reason for my question.
 
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blackout

Violet.
I have this Christian friend who I sometimes discuss, well, just about anything with, including religion. And he, being a somewhat logical person, concedes that there is no logical or reasonable basis for his faith. Instead he says that he keeps his faith because it makes him feel good, and seeing as he doesn't harm anyone with it, he reasons that he might as well keep doing it.
And I have no problem with it for one simple reason: He doesn't claim that what he believes is true. He never says to anyone that there -is- a god or that Jesus -was- the son of this god. He never makes a factual claim in that regard.

I have absolutely no problem with people believing whatever they like as long as they 1. do not harm anyone (including of course, their children), and 2. does not present their faith to other people as if it was factual.
When dealing with facts you need more than belief, feelings or whatnot. You need evidence, logic and empiricism.

That was the reason for my question.

Sounds reasonable to me. :)
 

7he4uthor

Member
i wrote this a long time ago but it may amuse





BIBLICAL WITCHCRAFT




Jesus, Zeus, Horus, and the 12-Member-Coven in witchcraft with the 13th coven master are all variations of the same religion

The Idea of God having a son who resurrects from the dead comes from Egypt when Horus, the son of Orion resurrects from death, far predating any Judeo-Christian Myth ... of course Abraham traveled from Sumeria to Egypt then on to Israel ... which is an excellent depiction of where the Bible stories originated and where they traveled to.

From India
To Sumeria
To Egypt
To Israel
To Europe …
and possibly having started in America before arriving in the east.
_
_
_

PAGAN ORIGINS OF THE BIBLICAL
Jesus had 12 Apostles (Jesus Latin for Jew-Zeus), Zeus (nicknamed Jupiter had 12 Olympians, The planet Jupiter has 12 moons, Israel had 12/13 tribes, the stars are divided into 12 Zodiacal constellations, there are 12 planets (according ancient Sumerian tablets Zechariah Sitchen "The 12th Planet"), The Illuminati is said to have 12 members, to this day we buy bread and eggs by the dozen or "Baker's Dozen" = 13 ... each 12-member-group representing the number of moons in a solar year, and the 13th member (leader) representing the number of moons in a "Blue-Moon" solar year. Moon rituals always have been, and are prevalent in Witchcraft, each moon having it's own "personality" as did each tribe of Israel (likely being personifications of these moons).

In the ancient days of lunar months there was in fact a 13th zodiacal sign for those born in a Blue-Moon month, which occurs about every two and a half years ,,, the sign of Aracne (the spider).

The Kabala (KABBA/ALLAH) is an ancient Jewish text, considered as "esoteric knowledge", studied by an elite group of rabbis. It contains ancient ceremonial rites and rituals of witchcraft. Jesus had obtained such knowledge while being educated in Egypt, with which he dazzled rabbis in Jerusalem upon his return. Jesus also had a "coven" of 12 and with himself as the 13th "coven-leader" he led a ritual which involved the drinking of a sacrament referred to as blood. Witchcraft from many parts of the world requires a coven of 12/13 representing the 12/13 moons of the year.

I believe that when Israel arrived in Egypt to visit Joseph he discovered the existence of a 13th moon (Blue-Moon) from Egyptians who had advanced knowledge in astronomy, being aware that 1 lunar month = 29.53059 days. he invented a 13th tribe (Manasseh) to reflect this astronomical knowledge obtained from the Egyptian wizards of astronomy, the 12 tribes of Israel were very likely personifications of the "PERSONALITIES" of the 12 moons.


Jesus also instructed his apostles to "DRINK-BLOOD" a practice said to be an integral part of witchcraft, even if the word "BLOOD" is a metaphor for a sacramental beverage.


VOODOO HEBREWS

While watching a TV show about a western form of Voodooism in Puerto Rico, called "Santeria" I began to realize that there seemed to be some similarities and perhaps a connection between the ancient African rituals of Voodoo and ancient Hebrew rituals.

In particular I was stuck by the killing of Goats and Chickens and the sprinkling of blood on the alter.

Ancient Hebrews also killed Goats (for remission of sins) and also Chickens... well not Chickens exactly, but rather an ancestor of the Chicken "The Dove" or "Pigeon". These birds were killed (sacrificed) as an offering for PEACE. Their blood was also SPRINKLED upon an alter, just as with the Santore Priests of Sanatoria-Voodoo. Now Voodoo obviously has it's origins in Africa, interestingly the Hebrews also spent much of their early days in Africa, and may well have learned much of their religion while on the continent, in such places as Egypt and Ethiopia. It is also interesting that there is a group of BLACK-NEGROID-AFRICANS called "The Falasha" and this tribe of Negroes has proven through DNA testing that they are indeed "JEWISH". This they did in an attempt to immigrate to Israel, in spite of proving their Jewish-Heritage they were however refused citizenship in Israel, as Israel is very racist against Negroes and will not acknowledge any Negroid blood in their ancestry. However the "GOAT-KILLING-RELIGION" and SPRINKLING OF BIRD-BLOOD would seem to back-up the claim of the Falasha, that they are indeed related to the Jews, if the DNA evidence was not enough.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Do you know that you exist?

In some capacity or another, yes, and any first year philosophy student can easily provide you with the logical argumentation for that.

But I am also well aware of the minds ability to delude us.

Feel like answering my question soon, or do you think you have to dodge it some more first?
 
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