Christianophobia?

[hoomer]

linwod...tsk creationism has many facts...it has the printed page...

Its in a book....IT MUST BE TRUE.....

 

[Scuba Pete]

There have been many rules passed by local school boards to refuse access to pblic buildings by faith based groups. They are wide open for non-faith based groups. How is that non threatening? It is one thing to seperate church from state, but it's an whole another issue to ban the church from the state.

 

[retrorich]

Retro,

Everytime a law is passed that removes God from our public life, it can be considered a threat to a christian. Everytime a law is passed that reflects humanistic beliefs (e.g. abortion), it is considered a threat to christians. Not all....but some. Just as not every atheist is threatened by Dubya, not all of us are threatened by these laws either.

Those laws are not threats to Christians. They are laws which Christians do not approve of. There is a profound difference between the two.

 

[Melody]

But it is based on fact.
The genome.
The fossil record.
Modern observations of microevolution.

No...it's based on "theory" and even the scientists are beginning to question this. Consider the missing link. Despite finding all of these fossils, they haven't found the link. Not just for humans but for other species as well.

A theory isn't fact. It's a possibility.

 

[Melody]

Those laws are not threats to Christians. They are laws which Christians do not approve of. There is a profound difference between the two.

Not to someone who believes that these laws lead to corruption of society as a whole and affect the world they have to live in.

Just as you find the thought of living in a Christian run country horrific, many Christians find the thought of living in an atheistic country just as bad.

Personally, I don't really care who runs the country since I'm living by the admonition to "be in the world, not of it." I believe this will all work out as God planned it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No...it's based on "theory" and even the scientists are beginning to question this.

Who are the scientists, and in which peer-reviewed journal have these questions been raised?

A theory isn't fact. It's a possibility.

It is, in fact, far far more than this. A theory is a testable and, therefore, falsifiable possibility.

 

[DianeVera]

I voted "yes."

I don't necessarily fear a persecution in my land, but at the same time, Christianity is losing its footing in the West. Naturally, those who leave feel some antipathy, and this is inherited.

And of course, I understand Melody's point. More Christians were killed for their faith than in the 20th century than any period previous in history (or possibly all the first 19 centuries), and most were Orthodox. My Church believes there is something to fear, and they have a pile of dead to make them think this way. I'm not as leary as the rest, though, for my safety.

In the West (and in Eastern Europe) in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, the killing of Christians for their faith has occurred almost exclusively in situations of extreme political instability, if I'm not mistaken. In nearly all cases it occurred in the wake of political revolutions in which the churches were seen as a bastion of support for the old regime.

The United States has long had a politically very stable regine. Likewise the governments of Western Europe seem pretty stable, for the most part.

The governments of Eastern Europe are less stable, but it's my impression that Eastern Europe is moving in a traditionalist direction that would most likely favor the churches (or at least the Orthodox and Catholic churches). Do you agree? It's my impression that Eastern European JEWS have plenty to fear, given the long tradition of anti-semitism in many parts of Eastern Europe, but that Christians do not, except perhaps in some predominantly Muslim countries/regions.

 

[hoomer]

No...it's based on "theory" and even the scientists are beginning to question this. Consider the missing link. Despite finding all of these fossils, they haven't found the link. Not just for humans but for other species as well.

A theory isn't fact. It's a possibility.

are you then saying creationism is fact?:biglaugh:

 

[hoomer]

In the West (and in Eastern Europe) in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, the killing of Christians for their faith has occurred almost exclusively in situations of extreme political instability, if I'm not mistaken. In nearly all cases it occurred in the wake of political revolutions in which the churches were seen as a bastion of support for the old regime.

The United States has long had a politically very stable regine. Likewise the governments of Western Europe seem pretty stable, for the most part.

The governments of Eastern Europe are less stable, but it's my impression that Eastern Europe is moving in a traditionalist direction that would most likely favor the churches (or at least the Orthodox and Catholic churches). Do you agree? It's my impression that Eastern European JEWS have plenty to fear, given the long tradition of anti-semitism in many parts of Eastern Europe, but that Christians do not, except perhaps in some predominantly Muslim countries/regions.

Of course jews should be fearful...

The whole probem wit this topic raises the issue that people of the book.....want EVERYONE TO BE LIKE THEM........now this IS a generaisation...BUT many of the bok peope DO use their beeifs to forward the beleif that everyone should be the SAME....

ThusChristians are "persecuted" in america........through laws....whilst others are butcherd in foreign lands.......I know who my sympathies go out to...in their strugge to fight oppression.....and it aint american christians:bonk:

 

[retrorich]

Not to someone who believes that these laws lead to corruption of society as a whole and affect the world they have to live in.

Which specific laws "lead to the corruption of society as a whole?"

 

[painted wolf]

ok, while I'm not going to get into the validity/invalidity of ID vs. Evolution, the fact remains that ID was determined by many courts to be religious belief given a 'scientific' glazing. Thus ID is considered teaching religion wich has no place in the school system.

The fact is that the schools are not there to 'save souls' and 'teach' religion. That is the job of the church. The schools are there to provide a basic nessisary education to all children so that none are without the opportunity to learn, math, science, reading, and history. (with a few extras added over the years like shop and home ecc.)

keeping such 'religious' education out of the basic program of the school is no more anti-christian than it is anti-Islam or anti-Hindu.

wa:do

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I agree with what No*s said.

Melody, I agree with you that there is a lot of Christianophobia out there, but I think you could find much more persuasive examples of it than you are using. Try thinking of countries outside of the United States--like Iran, or North Korea, or Egypt....

 

[linwood]

There have been many rules passed by local school boards to refuse access to pblic buildings by faith based groups. They are wide open for non-faith based groups. How is that non threatening? It is one thing to seperate church from state, but it's an whole another issue to ban the church from the state.

What rules?
Where?
For what reasons?

 

[No*s]

In the West (and in Eastern Europe) in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, the killing of Christians for their faith has occurred almost exclusively in situations of extreme political instability, if I'm not mistaken. In nearly all cases it occurred in the wake of political revolutions in which the churches were seen as a bastion of support for the old regime.

The United States has long had a politically very stable regine. Likewise the governments of Western Europe seem pretty stable, for the most part.

The governments of Eastern Europe are less stable, but it's my impression that Eastern Europe is moving in a traditionalist direction that would most likely favor the churches (or at least the Orthodox and Catholic churches). Do you agree? It's my impression that Eastern European JEWS have plenty to fear, given the long tradition of anti-semitism in many parts of Eastern Europe, but that Christians do not, except perhaps in some predominantly Muslim countries/regions.

I do agree that Eastern Jewry has plenty to fear there, and it makes me quite sad.

On Eastern Europe, though, they didn't do this now, when they are unstable, but throughout the bulk of the twentieth century when they had a stable government. The USSR doesn't strike me as being too unstable until the very end.

I never said it would happen here, either. I said I strongly doubted it would take place, but there was a rising backlash against Christians (largely because the culture is moving away from it), and that the same thing was happening in Western Europe. As Spinks pointed out, there is a strong backlash against the faith in Asia and the Middle East as well.

Christians do die for their faith, and more have died in the twentieth century than any other. That fact should be pretty telling on whether there is any "christianophobia."

 

[hoomer]

Which specific laws "lead to the corruption of society as a whole?"

retro tsk...you know the ones...like not going to church on sunday...allowing white people to breed with black people......maybe even gay people to be married....and as for drinking and listening to rock and roll!!!

I shall not mention Janet Jacksons breast!

 

[No*s]

I agree with what No*s said.

Melody, I agree with you that there is a lot of Christianophobia out there, but I think you could find much more persuasive examples of it than you are using. Try thinking of countries outside of the United States--like Iran, or North Korea, or Egypt....

I must spread some karma around before giving to you again...

 

[hoomer]

Christians do die for their faith, and more have died in the twentieth century than any other. That fact should be pretty telling on whether there is any "christianophobia."

coud this be because as numbers go...there are more christians NOW than ever before?,,,,,after al we are at 6 billion world populace?

 

[Melody]

are you then saying creationism is fact?:biglaugh:

I don't believe I said that at all.

 

[Melody]

Who are the scientists, and in which peer-reviewed journal have these questions been raised?

Within the last month I heard a program on NPR but I'm sorry I can't remember now what it was.

 

[No*s]

coud this be because as numbers go...there are more christians NOW than ever before?,,,,,after al we are at 6 billion world populace?

Yes. However, these persecutions were more systematic and total than any before in history, so I think that more than offsets the impact of the numbers.

Now, I ask you, why do you feel the need to downplay the persecution of Christians in the modern era?