ChanaR
Member
I attend a Reform synagogue, and I'm telling you, they have forgotten what it means to be Jewish. They don't even keep Shabbat or eat kosher. Nothing surprises me.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christians and Jews Who Sanction Homosexual Sex
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Rather than say something unkind or uncharitable, I'll simply respond to your untruths with -
Last edited:
Pudding
Well-Known Member
Just like how they reinterpret the scripture to approve anti-slavery, anti-misogyny and many other anti-(immoral law in scripture).Knowing how much god hates homosexual sex,and that it's almost a given that every homosexual couple engage in it,
Those religious Abrahamic religious organizations that sanction same-sex marriage.
Alliance of baptists
Conservative Judaism
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Reform Judaism
United Church of Christ (Congregational Church)
And perhaps the United Methodist Church (We'll know in February, 2019).
Reasons might include:
- the law have been fulfilled, no longer have to follow it.
- the specific story is allegory/metaphor, the real meaning is these and that.
- wrong translation/interpretation.
The scripture can mean anything as anyone wish to, it's really arbitrary.
Self-appointed true believers version 1 say that only their self-acclaimed true interpretations version 1 can accurately decipher the real meaning of god's words.
Self-appointed true believers version 2 say that only their self-acclaimed true interpretations version 2 can accurately decipher the real meaning of god's words.
Etc.
What is god's opinion about any statements in his book?
This omnipotent powerful god cannot or wouldn't speak about the real meanings of his words directly to all people, instead he have to rely on self-appointed true believers version 1,2,3...etc to speak for him and play god. God is like a puppet. What is god's opinion about some specific things?
Self-appointed true believers version 1: God says he approves it.
Self-appointed true believers version 2: God says he forbids it.
Self-appointed true believers version 3: God says he loves it.
Self-appointed true believers version 4: God says he hates it.
Self-appointed true believers version 5: God says it's beautiful.
Self-appointed true believers version 6: God says it's ugly.
Self-appointed true believers version 7: God says it's funny.
Self-appointed true believers version 8: God says it's boring.
Self-appointed true believers version 9: God says it's delicious.
Self-appointed true believers version 10: God says it's inedible.
Self-appointed true believers version 11: God says it's truth.
Self-appointed true believers version 12: God says it's deception.
Self-appointed true believers version 13: God says it's his manifestation.
Self-appointed true believers version 14: God says it's not his manifestation.
Self-appointed true believers version 15: God says it's the sign of the end.
Self-appointed true believers version 16: God says it's not the sign of the end.
God is not a puppet, really!
Last edited:
Attend another shul if you don't like it?
ChanaR
Member
LOL, firstly, it's the only shul in town. Secondly, I think you misunderstand. I'm not going to shun fellow Jews just because I disagree with them on something -- they are family. Do you think I agree with the Orthodox on everything? Or the conservatives? Or the humanists? Or the reconstructionists? Or the messianics (who can't even agree among themselves)? The only way to get a perfect fit would be to start my own denomination, and then no one else would come, because I would be so arrogant! LOL Nah, that's just not my style. I'm more the type to just go and enjoy people for who they are, even with their flaws -- and I hope they will forgive me my flaws as well. So, I go to synagogue to pray with fellow Jews, and I can do that at ANY synagogue.
ChanaR
Member
I exaggerated and it was most unkind. I feel horrible about what I said now, and I apologize. I hope you will forgive me and that the forum can extend me some grace, realizing that I'm a work in progress. The Jews at my synagogue of course know that they are Jews. I live in a neighborhood where the only synagogue is Reform, and I am very grateful that i have a place to go to pray with my fellow Jews.Rather than say something unkind or uncharitable, I'll simply respond to your untruths with -
I am however concerned however with the loss of Jews to assimilation. What do you think is the cause(s) that gets the first domino falling? I have a very good Jewish friend (very surprising that he is Orthodox given that he is an atheist) who says it is Torah that holds the Jewish people together. Take away observance, and within a few generations, they will no longer self identify as Jews. I worry that he is correct. What are your thoughts?
Last edited:
exchemist
Veteran Member
Exactly.
In the whole bible there seems to be only a couple of sentences about homosexuality and that is in the OT and concerns male homosexuality only. Christ said nothing about it at all.
As you point out, most Christians have convinced themselves they can set aside the prohibition of Christ himself on divorce, so why this obscure OT verse should be given such weight seems beyond logic.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Then you might want to take a look at the New Testament. (I've given three examples for each of the following four passages)
Romans 1:26–27
ESV
6 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
KJ21
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.
CJB
26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
1 Corinthians 6:9–10
ERV
Surely you know that people who do wrong will not get to enjoy God’s kingdom. Don’t be fooled. These are the people who will not get to enjoy his kingdom: those who sin sexually, those who worship idols, those who commit adultery, men who let other men use them for sex or who have sex with other men, those who steal, those who are greedy, those who drink too much, those who abuse others with insults, and those who cheat.
TLB
Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.
NCV
Surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God’s kingdom. Do not be fooled. Those who sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, those who are male prostitutes, or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others, or rob—these people will not inherit God’s kingdom.
1 Timothy 1:9–10
AMP
9 We also know that the law is not made for those who do what is right. It is made for those who are against the law and refuse to follow it. The law is for sinners who are against God and all that is pleasing to him. It is for those who have no interest in spiritual things and for those who kill their fathers or mothers or anyone else.for sexually immoral persons, for homosexuals, for kidnappers and slave traders, for liars, for perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
ERV
9 We also know that the law is not made for those who do what is right. It is made for those who are against the law and refuse to follow it. The law is for sinners who are against God and all that is pleasing to him. It is for those who have no interest in spiritual things and for those who kill their fathers or mothers or anyone else. 10 It is for those who commit sexual sins, homosexuals, those who sell slaves, those who tell lies, those who don’t tell the truth under oath, and those who are against the true teaching of God.
ESV
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,[a] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Jude 1:7
EHV
Like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who in a similar way indulged in extreme sexual immorality and pursued homosexual perversion, they serve as an example of those who are going to suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
GW
What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them is an example for us of the punishment of eternal fire. The people of these cities suffered the same fate that God’s people and the angels did, because they committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities.
NOG
What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them is an example for us of the punishment of eternal fire. The people of these cities suffered the same fate that God’s people and the angels did, because they committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities.
.
ESV
6 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
KJ21
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.
CJB
26 This is why God has given them up to degrading passions; so that their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural; 27 and likewise the men, giving up natural relations with the opposite sex, burn with passion for one another, men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in their own persons the penalty appropriate to their perversion.
1 Corinthians 6:9–10
ERV
Surely you know that people who do wrong will not get to enjoy God’s kingdom. Don’t be fooled. These are the people who will not get to enjoy his kingdom: those who sin sexually, those who worship idols, those who commit adultery, men who let other men use them for sex or who have sex with other men, those who steal, those who are greedy, those who drink too much, those who abuse others with insults, and those who cheat.
TLB
Don’t you know that those doing such things have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who live immoral lives, who are idol worshipers, adulterers or homosexuals—will have no share in his Kingdom. Neither will thieves or greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, or robbers.
NCV
Surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God’s kingdom. Do not be fooled. Those who sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, those who are male prostitutes, or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others, or rob—these people will not inherit God’s kingdom.
1 Timothy 1:9–10
AMP
9 We also know that the law is not made for those who do what is right. It is made for those who are against the law and refuse to follow it. The law is for sinners who are against God and all that is pleasing to him. It is for those who have no interest in spiritual things and for those who kill their fathers or mothers or anyone else.for sexually immoral persons, for homosexuals, for kidnappers and slave traders, for liars, for perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
ERV
9 We also know that the law is not made for those who do what is right. It is made for those who are against the law and refuse to follow it. The law is for sinners who are against God and all that is pleasing to him. It is for those who have no interest in spiritual things and for those who kill their fathers or mothers or anyone else. 10 It is for those who commit sexual sins, homosexuals, those who sell slaves, those who tell lies, those who don’t tell the truth under oath, and those who are against the true teaching of God.
ESV
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,[a] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Jude 1:7
EHV
Like Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who in a similar way indulged in extreme sexual immorality and pursued homosexual perversion, they serve as an example of those who are going to suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
GW
What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them is an example for us of the punishment of eternal fire. The people of these cities suffered the same fate that God’s people and the angels did, because they committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities.
NOG
What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them is an example for us of the punishment of eternal fire. The people of these cities suffered the same fate that God’s people and the angels did, because they committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities.
.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I couldn't tell you what God thinks about gay marriage. I don't think it matters at all what God thinks about anything...
Do you have a reason for some other translation?
... I mean, a reason other than that you don’t like the “standard” translation?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Use of the term “knowing” is disingenuous. We know nothing of the sort, because the text isn’t at all clear that the actions pertain to loving, consensual relationships — especially those that exist within the bounds of legal marriage. Your premise holds the church hostage to a very narrow (and fairly indefensible) treatment of the texts, themselves, and the way in which morality, ethics and doctrine are determined and formulated. It does not take under consideration the changing nature of the religion (and, indeed, the texts, themselves), nor does it consider the ways in which our views of the position the texts should hold change over time, whenever we are faced with the challenges of redefining ethics, based on changing cultural mores..
Knowing how much god hates homosexual sex,
Those religious Abrahamic religious organizations that sanction same-sex marriage.
Alliance of baptists
Conservative Judaism
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Reform Judaism
United Church of Christ (Congregational Church)
And perhaps the United Methodist Church (We'll know in February, 2019)
.
.
A very good point! And certainly seems to be true of those denominations that accept homosexuality, including one not mentioned earlier, the United Church of Canada, one of our largest denominations.
It has always seemed to me that Sola Scriptura could never lead to any real good...too much room for colossal error!
Yes, over my long life I've known some of those. A couple are dead by their own hand, obviously much superior to touching another human being of your own gender in a loving way.
It is, of course, ridiculously easy to make such recommendations to others, when you of course have no need of them yourself. Learning to walk in somebody else's shoes for a mile or two, however, might teach you something about empathy, compassion and what it might really mean to be "Christian."
I feel no particular compulsion to pay attention to how other people think I should live my life. I'm much better off living it my way.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Who’s “They?” You got a mouse in your pocket?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Try NRSV. None of them mentions homosexuality, specifically, and none of them means “homosexuality” in the same context as we mean it.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
To deny anyone their full, human capacity for sexual expression based on some arbitrary “ethic” is to deny them their full humanity. It’s dehumanizing, which means it’s violence of the systemic sort. Which is why some can’t live with themselves. It’s a rare human being who can stand the open contempt of society. I find your attitude here vile. Which surprises me, coming from you.