1robin
Christian/Baptist
Ok, then that is that.
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Christians and Jews Who Sanction Homosexual Sex
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
If you like I could link a few videos that go into depth on this.
you
Name 3
Your own words make my point for me. Look below at those words. The things you compare it with are theft, murder, slavery, "behavior destructive on an industrial scale," even your use of the term "existence of a problem," whether you know how to fix it or not.
Listen very carefully -- my homosexuality is NOT A PROBLEM. Not for me, not for my life partner, not for anybody anywhere. I have no diseases, I do nothing to anyone that they do not want. Yet, you call me a "problem." That's your term, not mine. You have spoken for yourself.
Theft and murder hurt people. Why do you suppose that me making love to my partner (who really wants me to) hurts anybody? Does it hurt you? Did you feel a tremor in the force last time we got it on? WHAT IS IT TO YOU? WHY DO YOU BOTHER TALKING ABOUT IT?
Because you want us to stop, that's why. And frankly, it is none of your bloody business.
Behaviour on an industrial scale. I say again -- the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexual, and they did NOT get it through gay sex. Therefore, the only place your argument can go is to require all sexual activity, all over the world, to cease.
Homosexual orientation is also not a choice. And once again, you make yourself abundantly clear about where you stand by making the comparison to murderers and thieves. Where in the world did I get the idea that you fear or hate homosexuals? From you.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Are you suggested that within the past 2000 years there have not been 3 people who embraced heterosexuality after having identified as a homosexual. I might know 3 personally. Do I really have to demonstrate something that is self evident?
Do People Change from Homosexuality? Hundreds of Stories of Hope and Transformation (Part I)
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You win. Since I can't convert, I'll go kill myself. I've no doubt you'd approve. I shall have nothing more to do with you, because you spend all your effort looking not for reality but for what supports what you wish to be true. The fact is, there are a tiny, tiny few who try to convert, and only because their religious communities, rather than loving them, give them so much guilt and hate they don't know what else to do. But if you were to actually look into the literature, you would also find -- though your religiously based sources will never tell you so -- that almost all such conversions wind up being failures.
After all, there are a couple of hundred million gay people in the world. Finding 11, 33, or even a thousand who claim to have converted, and often fall back, tells you very, very little indeed.
But your hatred is plain, and I'm done with you. Though not a Christian, I don't do hate, while so many so-called Christians do that with some apparent satisfaction. Go figure.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
I did not compare homosexuality to any other crime. I mentioned those thing as things that exist but are not acceptable imply because they exist. That in no way lumps homosexuality and criminal behavior. Your intentionally misusing my analogy. I am the greatest possible expert on my own views, far better than yourself and I do not fear nor hate homosexuals and I resent the accusation. If you keep using this insinuation I will no longer continue our discussion.
How carefully I listen is determined by the quality of your argument not be demands that I should.
I have said over and over that I am judging a behavior not a person. How well (or not) your personal experience with homosexuality is working out is irrelevant. Please take all the seething emotion out of your posts, it doesn't apply.
So does homosexuality but that does not make them co-equal with each other. Saying so is all on you, not me.
I am not condemning any specific homosexual's experience, I am discussing a type of generalized behavior that humanity as a whole in many ways. There is simply no possible way homosexuality's costs are justified by it's benefits. I am the one trying to stop those people from dying, your the one suggesting that the behavior that does this a virtue.
Anything that potentially costs me money and increases over all suffering is my business but I have not suggesting any particular action. I don't need to know how to fix my car to see it is malfunctioning. I don't have to have the solution to point out the problem. First steps first.
I didn't say anything about behavior on an industrial scale I was talking about suffering and death on an industrial scale. Your making a career out of misrepresenting my claims.
You don't know this because you can't. However I am not condemning the orientation. I am condemning homosexual sex which is 100% choice. I have to spend 80% of my time trying to straighten out your misrepresentations of my claims.
Let's see what my argument was again.
Homosexual sex produces unbelievable costs (in death, misery, and money) which can't possibly be justified by it's "benefits".
Try to stay on target.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
You were comparing apples and oranges. Homosexuality is not an act that hurts others, nor is it something that is done to another person without their consent. A more appropriate comparison might be that people with green eyes exist, people with black or brown skin exist, people who are homosexuals exist. You accept people with other differences from yourself, but you refuse to accept those with a different sexual orientation. That is bigotry no matter how you try to slice it.
We know that you've said it "over and over" but that still doesn't make what you say correct. The "behavior" you are judging is behavior that is also practiced by heterosexuals...so, obviously, it is not the "behavior" that bothers you, but rather the people who practice that behavior. You ARE judging people.
You have consistently been judging ALL homosexuality as awful and as something that should be eliminated. Why aren't you judging promiscuity in heterosexuals? That causes problems--including AIDS--as well. Homosexuals who are in a monogamous relationship cause no more financial harm than do heterosexuals in a monogamous relationship.
There is no such thing as "homosexual sex." There are sexual relations between homosexuals as well as heterosexuals and there is absolutely no difference.
Funny thing is, I am friends with several homosexual couples who are either legally married (if allowed in the state where they live) or in a long term relationship. None of them has AIDS. All of them are gainfully employed (two of them, in fact, are lawyers) and they are well respected members of their communities.
You need to focus on the actual problems and not on a particular class of people you don't understand and don't like simply because they are different from you.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
What on God's green earth are you talking about? Has your emotional commitment to your position overwhelmed your ability to reason? I never suggested you do anything. Why are you melting down?
I can not have a guy who I merely disagree with try and blame me for his own misery. Either stop this absurd appeal to the dramatic or I will have to end our discussion. I just can't justify your hysterics.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
Seriously? SERIOUSLY???? You don't recognize sarcasm when it is so blatantly obvious? No wonder you have so much trouble understanding facts that are presented to you.
Just amazing...totally amazing.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
It most certainly is, especially male on male. It causes everything from anal cancer to massively increased rates of AIDS transmission. That is why the CDC linked homosexuality with AIDs, etc......
Consent is irrelevant but homosexuals also produce higher rates of sexual crimes, their more sexually wreck less, and their more promiscuous.
You just do not get it. I am not even trying to get others to think I am right, I am just trying to get you to understand what I am saying. The subject here is what I meant by what I said and I am the greatest expert on that subject in the entire history of humanity. I know what I said more so than anyone else on earth. It is an inescapable fact that I am condemning a behavior instead of a person. I have not referred to any specific person so I can't possible be condemning any specific person.
I am judging a behavior not those who practice it though I would be perfectly just if I had done so.
Oh yes there is. It is a sexual act performed by two homosexuals.
Come off it man. No one said anything about all homosexuals having AIDS. Will you please comment on what I actually say when responding to me.
I am, homosexual sex is unbelievably destructive. I also think eating fat, lying, and chemical addiction is wrong but this isn't a thread on nutrition, liars, or addiction. I am staying on topic and trying to stop a deadly behavior. Why aren't you?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I see that you are still 20 years behind the times. The CDC is quite clear that dealt with HIV transmission. HIV no longer equals AIDS.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
For @1robin here is a link on HIV and AIDS:
What Are HIV and AIDS?
"However, there’s good news: by using HIV medicines (called antiretroviral therapy or ART) consistently, you can prevent HIV from progressing to AIDS. ART helps control the virus so that you can live a longer, healthier life and greatly reduces the risk of transmitting HIV to others."
What Are HIV and AIDS?
"However, there’s good news: by using HIV medicines (called antiretroviral therapy or ART) consistently, you can prevent HIV from progressing to AIDS. ART helps control the virus so that you can live a longer, healthier life and greatly reduces the risk of transmitting HIV to others."
Okay, here's something else to chew on. I know, personally, a very great number of gay people. I've been living the life for 55 years or so, so that should be no surprise. And here is something that I have personally observed (not heard from a friend who had a girlfriend who's mother says...) a very much larger number of people who claimed to identify as heterosexual, because family, society and desire to be successful forced them to, finally admit that they are in fact homosexual. And I have known, and here I give you a very precise count, not one single person who identified as homosexual who managed to go the other way. I did know one in Toronto, who in the early seventies was so distraught at his family's desire that he change that he drowned himself in Lake Ontario, but I honestly don't think that counts as a successful conversion.
I add to my own personal, and therefore admittedly anecdotal, experience that there is real scientific literature on this subject, written by authentic researchers and not religious groups with an agenda like Focus on the Family, whose evidence you have decided is the only thing really worth listening to. And the real science says, "bunk!" And more to the point, superior courts in the United States are agreeing with them, on the basis that courts are notorious for using … evidence.
Gay Conversion Therapy: What You Should Know
I wonder if you can even see what you just did there, in your blind hate and ignorance. You just accused me of my "own misery." As if you actually knew anything. Well trust me, you know much less about me than you know about science and human nature, and since you demonstrate very little knowledge of them, your knowledge of me becomes much less than trivial.
I am a happy, fulfilled man, living my life with my life partner of many decades, satisfied with my achievements in life, unaffected with the disease you'd love to see me saddled with. The "hysterics," little person, are not mine.
kiwimac
Brother Napalm of God's Love
This whole thread begins with the premise that there is a 'cost' to homosexuality that does not exist in other communities. It is hooey. Everything humans do incurs some kind of socio-economic cost and nobody with the sense God gave to a flatworm bothers about it. Humans should be free to love whomsoever they will given only the provisos that it is a: consensual between those capable of making such a decision and b: compassionate.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
Heterosexuals also engage in anal sex and, if they engage in unprotected sex--either vaginal or anal--they, too, can transmit AIDS. Female homosexuals, however, generally are not at risk, so that pretty much blows your argument out of the water.
Oh, really? I do believe that the majority of rapists and pedophiles are heterosexual. I'm not sure what you mean by saying "their more sexually wreck less." Did you mean to say "they're more sexually reckless"? If so, then again...not true. Some homosexuals are promiscuous, but many more heterosexuals are promiscuous.
Homosexuals who are in a committed monogamous relationship are no more promiscuous than any heterosexuals--and probably less so.
I understand what you're saying, but I honestly don't think that you understanding what you're saying. You say that you are condemning a "behavior" but that "behavior" is not unique to homosexuals. By claiming that it is, you ARE, in fact, condemning a group of people.
If this is so, then will you openly and freely judge heterosexuals as well, since the behavior you condemn is practiced by them as well as homosexuals. Come on...condemn heterosexuals--both single and married--who practice the "behaviors" you claim that are the only thing you are condemning.
Or two heterosexuals--but not two female homosexuals. You're digging a deep, deep hole here.
I didn't say that you did say that. I simply commented on the homosexual couples I know who probably engage in those "behaviors" you condemn, who are perfectly healthy, happy, and productive.
It's not "homosexual sex." It's a group of people that you are condemning. The "deadly behavior" is practiced just as frequently by heterosexuals as by homosexuals, so stop lying to yourself. Now, if you were condemning promiscuous sexual relations, unprotected sex, IV drug abuse with dirty needles as practiced by both homosexuals and heterosexuals, you might have a point. But condemning an entire group of people simply because you obviously hate them is ridiculous.
Homosexuals are as diverse as are heterosexuals. Some of them in both groups are promiscuous and some of them in both groups are nasty people--but the majority of people in both groups are decent people who do not have AIDS, nor do they engage in any activities that could be construed as "destructive" so that they need to be eliminated.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
Committing suicide is no joke but I never said that I thought he was serious. I jut responded to his absurdity with my own absurdity. Apparently you do not get sarcasm. Try to keep up.Seriously? SERIOUSLY???? You don't recognize sarcasm when it is so blatantly obvious? No wonder you have so much trouble understanding facts that are presented to you.
Just amazing...totally amazing.
RedhorseWoman
Active Member
1robin
Christian/Baptist
I may very well not understand what you meant to say here but it appears your referring to cases where a homosexual may live as a heterosexual for a while then convert to homosexuality. It appears you saying because that has happened my statement was wrong. I don't understand this. Maybe I misread what you posted.
Oh come off it. You asked me for something and I gave it to you so you mistakenly claim I said that was the only source that matters so you can ignore it's inconvenient claims. I didn't ever see who that source was, just what it said. Stop making up stuff about me that I never said or did.
I am not suggesting any homosexual get therapy (unless THEY want to) so I don't know why you gave me a link to the process. My point was only that many people have been cured from being a homosexual.