Christians; Are Modern Prophets worth anything?

[ForeverFaithful]

I've been reading some Ellen White and absording some info from some of Mormon friends about Joseph Smith, not that I'm an Adventist or a Mormon myself, as of yet

Yet the vast majority of Christians reject prophets entirely, despite Paul speaking highly of them,

What's the deal, care to explain?

 

[Katzpur]

I've been reading some Ellen White and absording some info from some of Mormon friends about Joseph Smith, not that I'm an Adventist or a Mormon myself, as of yet

Yet the vast majority of Christians reject prophets entirely, despite Paul speaking highly of them,

What's the deal, care to explain?

If prophets were worth something anciently, they are indeed worth something today. God communicated to mankind through His chosen prophets throughout the Old Testament, and in Amos we read: "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." There is nowhere in scripture where we are told that God would suddenly stop communicating with us the way He has since the beginning of time, and instead leave us with just a book to go on.

Ephesians 4:11-14 states:

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive...

Unless I am mistaken, all other Christian denominations believe that prophets and apostles are no longer needed. They are described as the foundation upon which the Church was built (see Ephesians 2:20), with Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. Paul's statement (above) does not seem to be saying that while we need actual evangelists, pastors and teachers, only the recorded words of dead prophets and apostles are needed. We need living prophets and apostles, to whom Jesus Christ can speak. If the foundation upon which the Church was built is not continually maintained it will crumble, and the remainder of the structure will no longer be able to stand. Obviously, any church could decide to create an organization with individuals called prophets and apostles, and I'm sure that from the perspective of other Christians, that's all we've done. As I've explained, we don't see it that way. We believe that God is choosing the men He wants to serve in this capacity and that when they accept these callings and are ordained to hold them, they are not only functioning exactly as the Peter and the other apostles did when Jesus called and ordained them, but that they hold the same authority and power as did the original Twelve.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

I know the LDS stance on this issue and am thankful for your input

I would also like to mention besides big name prophets, are little tiny ones, arugably fringe prophets

 

[ViKtoricus]

Not unless the modern prophet is the return of Jesus Christ.

 

[ChristineES]

Prophets weren't even recognized in their own time. Prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah were killed/murdered. So modern prophets probably won't be recognized until later, as well. A very sad truth.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Some forms of Pentecostalism place an importance of modern-day prophets. Many of their pastors and evangelists have acted in this capacity.

 

[Rathus]

If prophets were worth something anciently, they are indeed worth something today. God communicated to mankind through His chosen prophets throughout the Old Testament, and in Amos we read: "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." There is nowhere in scripture where we are told that God would suddenly stop communicating with us the way He has since the beginning of time, and instead leave us with just a book to go on.

Ephesians 4:11-14 states:

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive...

Unless I am mistaken, all other Christian denominations believe that prophets and apostles are no longer needed. They are described as the foundation upon which the Church was built (see Ephesians 2:20), with Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. Paul's statement (above) does not seem to be saying that while we need actual evangelists, pastors and teachers, only the recorded words of dead prophets and apostles are needed. We need living prophets and apostles, to whom Jesus Christ can speak. If the foundation upon which the Church was built is not continually maintained it will crumble, and the remainder of the structure will no longer be able to stand. Obviously, any church could decide to create an organization with individuals called prophets and apostles, and I'm sure that from the perspective of other Christians, that's all we've done. As I've explained, we don't see it that way. We believe that God is choosing the men He wants to serve in this capacity and that when they accept these callings and are ordained to hold them, they are not only functioning exactly as the Peter and the other apostles did when Jesus called and ordained them, but that they hold the same authority and power as did the original Twelve.

A couple of problems I see here in your post.

First is your misuse of Amos 3:7. The word "nothing" in Amos 3:7 must be interpreted by the context. Amos 3:1-7 really refers to God bringing judgment against His people Israel because of their sin. And He says He will do "nothing" (to punish or judge them) without warning them first. The Bible shows He did what He said He would do. Actually, the entire context is found within the entire chapter.

Now regarding Ephesians 2:20 "the foundation of the apostles and prophets". Have you ever had a house built? How many foundations would you lay? In reality, only one foundation needs to be laid. And upon that foundation the construction will be built upon. This is what Paul is saying to the church in Ephesus. The foundation has already been laid with Jesus being the chief cornerstone. Any other "foundation" is a false foundation. The Church of Christ is built upon the foundation that was laid by the apostles and prophets. Once that foundation was laid it has continued to be built upon by the individual living stones (Christians) down through the ages. The idea that God ditched the original foundation only to replace it with the one Joseph Smith conjured up is ludicrous.

Why don't we have "apostles and prophets" living today? Well, in a sense we do. They are alive in Christ and we have their words written in the Bible. If you can't even follow the instructions found in the Bible, then I seriously doubt adding more words is going to help make things any clearer.

 

[javajo]

Christians; Are Modern Prophets worth anything?

My belief is, Nope. If you search the web you will find many prophets who say that next year this or that will happen and they are always wrong. Then those prophets who add to scripture always find things they disagree with in the Bible and say the Bible is wrong and they have the real truth. The Bible is not wrong! The Bible was written and complete and God's revelation to man from the beginning of creation to the end is contained in the Bible, That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Katzpur]

My belief is, Nope. If you search the web you will find many prophets who say that next year this or that will happen and they are always wrong. Then those prophets who add to scripture always find things they disagree with in the Bible and say the Bible is wrong and they have the real truth. The Bible is not wrong! The Bible was written and complete and God's revelation to man from the beginning of creation to the end is contained in the Bible, That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I'm sorry, javajo, but that statement simply does not imply that God has nothing more to say. Why would He communicate to mankind through prophets for 4000 years and then suddenly stop? If He is the same yesterday, today and forever, He wouldn't simply decide that we no longer needed his direction and guidance. After all, are we so different from people back then that He'd figure we could just get along with a book?

 

[Katzpur]

A couple of problems I see here in your post.

First is your misuse of Amos 3:7. The word "nothing" in Amos 3:7 must be interpreted by the context. Amos 3:1-7 really refers to God bringing judgment against His people Israel because of their sin. And He says He will do "nothing" (to punish or judge them) without warning them first. The Bible shows He did what He said He would do. Actually, the entire context is found within the entire chapter.

I agree with your interpretation, just not with your conclusion.

Now regarding Ephesians 2:20 "the foundation of the apostles and prophets". Have you ever had a house built? How many foundations would you lay? In reality, only one foundation needs to be laid. And upon that foundation the construction will be built upon. This is what Paul is saying to the church in Ephesus. The foundation has already been laid with Jesus being the chief cornerstone. Any other "foundation" is a false foundation. The Church of Christ is built upon the foundation that was laid by the apostles and prophets. Once that foundation was laid it has continued to be built upon by the individual living stones (Christians) down through the ages.

If the foundation of the house crumbles or is destroyed, the house cannot continue to stand. The verse I posted describes an organization structure that was clearly designed to remain intact "till we come in the unity of faith in Christ." Christians were not unified in their beliefs as early as the late first century, and things have only worsened since then. Had the apostles Christ ordained been able to ordain replacements called by Him, the Church would have continued to function as it did at the time of His death. Because that was not the case, the Church of the 4th and 5th centuries was vastly different from the one He personally established.

The idea that God ditched the original foundation only to replace it with the one Joseph Smith conjured up is ludicrous.

That's ludicrous, all right. What on earth would make you think that "God ditched the original foundation" when He obviously had nothing to do with it. Both an apostasy and a restoration were prophesied and I believe that both have taken place.

Why don't we have "apostles and prophets" living today? Well, in a sense we do. They are alive in Christ and we have their words written in the Bible. If you can't even follow the instructions found in the Bible, then I seriously doubt adding more words is going to help make things any clearer.

Wow. That's a creative stretch of the imagination. Why do you think we have 30,000 different Christian denominations today? I guess 2 billion people can't seem to agree on what the "instructions found in the Bible" mean.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Today we are in as much need of correction interpretation and Direction, as we have ever been.
The first years of Christianity had literally hundreds of travelling prophets preaching to the new Christian groups.. .And the Didache shows that some were respected and others were not.

The difficulty has become one of meaning, Christianity has encouraged people to believe the function of a Prophet is equivalent to that of a seer who foretells the future.

A prophet is one who has a special relationship with God and speaks forth his message. I think the LDS understand this relationship far better than most branches of Christianity.

The “prophet” proclaimed the message given to him, as the “seer” beheld the vision of God. (See Num. 12:6,8.) Thus a prophet was a spokesman for God; he spake in God's name and by his authority (Ex. 7:1). He is the mouth by which God speaks to men (Jer. 1:9; Isa. 51:16), and hence what the prophet says is not of man but of God (2 Pet. 1:20,21; compare Hebrews 3:7; Acts 4:25; 28:25).

 

[Rathus]

I agree with your interpretation, just not with your conclusion.

If the foundation of the house crumbles or is destroyed, the house cannot continue to stand. The verse I posted describes an organization structure that was clearly designed to remain intact "till we come in the unity of faith in Christ." Christians were not unified in their beliefs as early as the late first century, and things have only worsened since then. Had the apostles Christ ordained been able to ordain replacements called by Him, the Church would have continued to function as it did at the time of His death. Because that was not the case, the Church of the 4th and 5th centuries was vastly different from the one He personally established.

That's ludicrous, all right. What on earth would make you think that "God ditched the original foundation" when He obviously had nothing to do with it. Both an apostasy and a restoration were prophesied and I believe that both have taken place.

Wow. That's a creative stretch of the imagination. Why do you think we have 30,000 different Christian denominations today? I guess 2 billion people can't seem to agree on what the "instructions found in the Bible" mean.

God did NOT "ditch" the original foundation. Simply because the original foundation is Jesus Christ (surely God would not "ditch" His only begotten Son). The point I was trying to make is that the foundation is not the apostles and prophets. Rather, the foundation was laid by the apostles and prophets, that foundation being Christ and His Gospel.

"Misconception #1—Apostles, along with Prophets, Are the Foundation of the Church.

This is probably the most serious misconception and is based on a faulty reading of Eph. 2:20 where Paul tells the Ephesian believers that they are being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets . . .. In the Greek, “apostles and prophets” is in the genitive case, the case which shows possession. It is like saying “the car of John Doe.” Although the car and John Doe are related, it does not follow that the car is John Doe or that John Doe is the car.

In the same way, it does not follow that the foundation is identical with the apostles and prophets or that the apostles and prophets are identical with the foundation. Paul is actually referring to the foundation which is laid by the apostles and prophets as is borne out in his 1st letter to the Corinthian Church; a church he, as an apostle, had founded.

In 1 Cor. 3:10-11, Paul refers to his founding of the church at Corinth and says, I have laid the foundation and another builds on it. What foundation did Paul lay for the church in Corinth? He says in vs. 11, For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid which is Jesus Christ. The foundation of the apostle Paul in Corinth was Jesus Christ.

This coincides with Jesus’ response to Peter’s revelation of Him as the Christ, the Son of the Living God in Matt. 16:13-18. The Greek word for Peter is petros and, with a play on words, Jesus says to him, You are petros (a small rock or pebble), and on this petra (a large massive stone) I will build my Church. The foundation on which Jesus said he would build His Church was not a little rock like Peter, but the massive foundation stone which is the revelation of who He is, i.e., Himself.

There is an old hymn entitled “The Church’s One Foundation.” The first stanza begins, “The Church’s one foundation is Jesus Christ her Lord . . ..” Those who would claim a foundation for the Church other than Jesus Christ are in serious error." angelfire. com/in/HisName/foundationtwo. html

 

[Reverend Rick]

When Paul was speaking about gifts and people speaking in tongues, he said speaking in tongues where a lessor gift from God and a Christian should aspire to receive greater gifts which would make one a prophet.

 

[Rathus]

When Paul was speaking about gifts and people speaking in tongues, he said speaking in tongues where a lessor gift from God and a Christian should aspire to receive greater gifts which would make one a prophet.

Hi Reverend Rick. Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I was under the impression that the "greater" gifts were "faith, hope and love" but the greatest of these is love. Is that what you mean?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hi Reverend Rick. Could you elaborate a bit more on this? I was under the impression that the "greater" gifts were "faith, hope and love" but the greatest of these is love. Is that what you mean?

1 Corinthians 14 - 5

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesieth: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

KJV

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I've been reading some Ellen White and absording some info from some of Mormon friends about Joseph Smith, not that I'm an Adventist or a Mormon myself, as of yet

Yet the vast majority of Christians reject prophets entirely, despite Paul speaking highly of them,

What's the deal, care to explain?

In general, Christian's believe the age of Prophets ended with Jesus, which is one of the reasons they reject Mohammed.

 

[Revoltingest]

Prophets, old & new.......does what they say have merit for you?
Is that is the value?

 

[Reverend Rick]

In general, Christian's believe the age of Prophets ended with Jesus, which is one of the reasons they reject Mohammed.

Lets examine this futher. Do you have an example we can look at? If it was Paul or Luke that said this I may have issues.

My guess is the "Alpha and Omega" thing?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Lets examine this futher. Do you have an example we can look at? If it was Paul or Luke that said this I may have issues.

My guess is the "Alpha and Omega" thing?

An example? To be honest I thought this was general knowledge. Am I mistaken? Enlighten me as I admit to being ignorant of the specifics on the issue.

 

[Reverend Rick]

An example? To be honest I thought this was general knowledge. Am I mistaken? Enlighten me as I admit to being ignorant of the specifics on the issue.

This is my issue, yes this is general knowledge, but where did this knowledge come from?

I believe it deserves a closer look, don't you?

Are you saying you don't have a sourse?