Christians are Satanists!

[The Sum of Awe]

Now that the overreacting title has successfully snatched your attention; I will ask a question strikingly relevant to the title.

2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 are contradicting. Are God and Satan the one and same?

(2 Samuel 24:1) - "Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

(1 Chronicles 21:1) - "Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel."

 

[savagewind]

My guess is 2 Samuel 24:1 does not say the Lord incited David but Israel incited him.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Some Gnostic groups believe they are the same. Some think they're roles are reversed in common understanding- i.e., god is satan, and satan is god. Some think satan and Jesus are brothers. What's interesting to me, is how the bible/Christian dogma demonizes knowledge in the garden, by having satan possess a snake. It's all a very interesting plot line.

 

[Skwim]

My guess is 2 Samuel 24:1 does not say the Lord incited David but Israel incited him.

Poor guess.

2 Samuel 24:1

New International Version
Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

New Living Translation
Once again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he caused David to harm them by taking a census. "Go and count the people of Israel and Judah," the LORD told him.

King James Bible
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

International Standard Version
Later, God's anger blazed forth against Israel, so he incited David to move against them by telling him, "Go take a census of Israel and Judah."

American Standard Version
And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah.

English Revised Version
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah.
​

Among others.

 

[savagewind]

Poor guess.

2 Samuel 24:1

New International Version
Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

New Living Translation
Once again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he caused David to harm them by taking a census. "Go and count the people of Israel and Judah," the LORD told him.

King James Bible
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

International Standard Version
Later, God's anger blazed forth against Israel, so he incited David to move against them by telling him, "Go take a census of Israel and Judah."

American Standard Version
And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah.

English Revised Version
And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah.
​

Among others.

Oh dear! Those are English men's English translations. I'm a girl.

 

[crossfire]

My guess is 2 Samuel 24:1 does not say the Lord incited David but Israel incited him.

2Sam 24:1 Hebrew:

וַיֹּסֶף אַף־יְהוָה לַחֲרֹות בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וַיָּסֶת אֶת־דָּוִד בָּהֶם
לֵאמֹר לֵךְ מְנֵה אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵל וְאֶת־יְהוּדָֽה​

-source- (Red=YHWH)

1Chron 21:1 Hebrew:

וַיַּֽעֲמֹד שָׂטָן עַל־יִשְׂרָאֵל וַיָּסֶת אֶת־דָּוִיד לִמְנֹות
אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
​

-source- (Red=satan)

 

[savagewind]

I could be wrong (I know they are wrong) because this is what I have and I can not read it.
וַיֹּ֙סֶף֙אַף־יְהוָ֔הלַחֲר֖וֹתבְּיִשְׂרָאֵ֑לוַיָּ֨סֶתאֶת־דָּוִ֤דבָּהֶם֙לֵאמֹ֔רלֵ֛ךְמְנֵ֥האֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵ֖לוְאֶת־יְהוּדָֽה׃

 

[savagewind]

2Sam 24:1 Hebrew:

וַיֹּסֶף אַף־יְהוָה לַחֲרֹות בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וַיָּסֶת אֶת־דָּוִד בָּהֶם
וַיֹּסֶף אַף־יְהוָה לַחֲרֹות בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל וַיָּסֶת אֶת־דָּוִד בָּהֶם​

-source-

1Chron 21:1 Hebrew:

וַיַּֽעֲמֹד שָׂטָן עַל־יִשְׂרָאֵל וַיָּסֶת אֶת־דָּוִיד לִמְנֹות
אֶת־יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
​

-source-

What does that say? YHVH? I know it says G-d. The anger of G-d was kindled against Israel and so Israel incited David. Savvy?

 

[savagewind]

I just had a thought. I am going to share it. I do not care if you don't care. I shall describe the scene for you. OK?

Israel was aware of the anger of G-d upon them. They incited David to count them to show The God how wrong G-d was. People still do it.

 

[crossfire]

What does that say? YHVH? I know it says G-d. The anger of G-d was kindled against Israel and so Israel incited David. Savvy?

OK, see my edit. (fixed a double paste and added translation of highlighted words)

 

[savagewind]

OK, see my edit. (fixed a double paste and added translation of highlighted words)

OK like one says Jehovah and one says Satan? Is that right? I know one scripture mentions YHVH and one Satan. You are missing the point. It's about which entity YHVH or Israel the pronoun magifies. Is magnify the right word? If you want to do your little analysis then Satan in one scripure relates to Israel in the other NOT YHVH.

 

[crossfire]

OK like one says Jehovah and one says Satan? Is that right?

That is correct.

 

[savagewind]

One scriptures say Israel incited David. The other scripture says Satan incited David. See? They have it saying YHVH incited David.

 

[crossfire]

One scriptures say Israel incited David. The other scripture says Satan incited David. See? They have it saying YHVH incited David.

Satan means adversary, no? Both scriptures mention adversity against Israel. The first one mentions YHWH's anger being kindled against Israel, in the second one, it just says adversary against Israel.

 

[Skwim]

Oh dear! Those are English men's English translations. I'm a girl.

So, do girls really read words differently than boys?

  "Car"

BOY   Girl
​

  "Tree"

 Boy   Girl

  "Bath Tub"

 Boy     Girl

 

​

 

[savagewind]

Satan means adversary, no? Both scriptures mention adversity against Israel. The first one mentions YHWH's anger being kindled against Israel, in the second one, it just says adversary against Israel.

Thank you. The OP is about a seeming contradiction. He said one says Satan incited David. The other one he says Jehovah incited David. I am saying Satan is not to Jehovah. Satan is to Israel. When you have two subjects in a sentence. One is Israel. The other is YHVH. Then you have a verb. To which one does the verb apply? I say the verb applies to Israel.

 

[savagewind]

So, do girls really read words differently than boys?

  "Car"

BOY   Girl
​

  "Tree"

 Boy   Girl

  "Bath Tub"

 Boy     Girl

 

​

Yes! LOL. It is what is wrong with the world. Is it not?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, the Old Testament doesn't have the same view of the function of satan as the New Testament does. What else is new?

 

[Skwim]

Yes! LOL. It is what is wrong with the world. Is it not?

Well, being on the same page would certainly help in correcting many of the world's ills. Just because I say "tomato" and you say "tomahto" doesn't mean we're talking about the same thing.

My "Tomato"
Moderator cut: image removed


Your "tomahto"

​

 

[Sees]

Now that the overreacting title has successfully snatched your attention; I will ask a question strikingly relevant to the title.

2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 are contradicting. Are God and Satan the one and same?

(2 Samuel 24:1) - "Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

(1 Chronicles 21:1) - "Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel."

I thought you were going to allude to the fact that most people who believe in Satan are Christians - hence Satanists and Christians...you got me good.