Christians can't be Anti-Semitic

[Estro Felino]

Yesterday evening my mother and I talked about religion (as always). She's a traditional Catholic whereas I am a Pelagian. I asked her: "Why are we Christian sometimes accused of being anti-Semitic?"
she replied: "well...that's impossible. I can't be against myself. I am both a Jewish and a Christian, because Christianity includes necessarily the Jewish religion. So, even if Judaism is different because Jews didn't recognize Jesus, it doesn't matter. I can't see any difference between a Jew and me".

so...that's what my mother said. So, if you want to criticize this thought, do criticize her, not me.
thank you

 

[Poeticus]

Christians can and have been anti-Semitic. The history of the persecution of the Jewish people in Europe by Christian rigorists is a discouraging tale, rivaled only by the historical persecution of the Hindus in South Asia by Muslim rigorists.

 

[Estro Felino]

Christians can and have been anti-Semitic. The history of the persecution of the Jewish people in Europe by Christian rigorists is a discouraging tale, rivaled only by the historical persecution of the Hindus in South Asia by Muslim rigorists.

well...false Christians can be Anti-Semitic and History proves it.
But you can't tell that the authentic Christian, the one who imitates Jesus Christ is anti-Semitic. Saints are sometimes martyrs, so victims and not perpetrators.

Jesus is our model. and Jesus, the first Christian, was a Jew. so he couldn't be against Himself.


Let's not forget that Hitler and most Nazis worshiped Germanic gods. and they killed lots of Christian priests

 

[Heim]

Anti-Semitism was highly common among Christians. It was such a poignant problem that during Vatican II the Church felt the need to formally distance itself from it.

"Finally, two points are repudiated which in the past were the roots of persecution: the accusation that the Jewish people were collectively and forever responsible of the death of Christ (the so-called deicide) and anti-Semitism." (Source)

And of course, most people would say that anti-Semitism is a fundamentally unchristian attitude.

 

[redpolk]

Yesterday evening my mother and I talked about religion (as always). She's a traditional Catholic whereas I am a Pelagian. I asked her: "Why are we Christian sometimes accused of being anti-Semitic?"
she replied: "well...that's impossible. I can't be against myself. I am both a Jewish and a Christian, because Christianity includes necessarily the Jewish religion. So, even if Judaism is different because Jews didn't recognize Jesus, it doesn't matter. I can't see any difference between a Jew and me".

so...that's what my mother said. So, if you want to criticize this thought, do criticize her, not me.
thank you

Perhaps for Xmas you might buy your mother an introduction to Judaism (and a history of Xtian anti-Semitism).

 

[Heim]

One has to acknowledge the Jewish roots of Christianity. Being Jewish doesn't merely mean that you your religion is Judaism, but it also mean that you are part of the Hebrew people.
Christianity transcends this, in my opinion. Whether one is Jew or gentile, we're all equal in Christ.

 

[Flankerl]

well...false Christians can't be Anti-Semitic and History proves it.
But you can't tell that the authentic Christian, the one who imitates Jesus Christ is anti-Semitic. Saints are sometimes martyrs, so victims and not perpetrators.

It is only through this forum that i learned what a true Scotsman is.

Let's not forget that Hitler and most Nazis worshiped Germanic gods. and they killed lots of Christian priests

[citation needed]
Because you know... Germanic Paganism has had a small decline for the last 1200 years.

And of course, most people would say that anti-Semitism is a fundamentally unchristian attitude.

Which would be stupid as Christian Anti-Semitism is as old as Christianity itself.

Christianity transcends this, in my opinion.

Well good for you.

 

[Estro Felino]

[citation needed]
Because you know... Germanic Paganism has had a small decline for the last 1200 years.

Nazis, Esoterik, nordische Rasse, Mythologie, Runen, Bruderschaften, Thule, Vril, Edelweiß, 3. Reich

Hitler didn't believe in Christ and joined esoteric orders
http://www.etika.com/d49ns/49ns22hitler1.htm

 

[Sees]

Not even close to true about Hitler or most Nazis...

There was one or two notable Nazi pagans, vast majority at all levels were Christian or irreligious.

"It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund." - Adolf Hitler

Germanic pagans don't want the Church's crazy drunk uncle thrown their way. He was pagan as much as Genghis Khan was Italian.

well...false Christians can't be Anti-Semitic and History proves it.
But you can't tell that the authentic Christian, the one who imitates Jesus Christ is anti-Semitic. Saints are sometimes martyrs, so victims and not perpetrators.

Jesus is our model. and Jesus, the first Christian, was a Jew. so he couldn't be against Himself.


Let's not forget that Hitler and most Nazis worshiped Germanic gods. and they killed lots of Christian priests

 

[Tarheeler]

I'm just trying to decide if I should see this as really, really sad or as some kind of joke.

Christians (yes, even real Christians) can be and often are antisemitic; their animosity, both as individuals and as authoritative groups, has been well documented throughout history. Their popes, pastors, priests, and other leaders have, at times, gone through great lengths to establish religious grounds for their hatred.

Many Christians certainty harbor no ill will or animosity against Jews, but to say that Christians are somehow incapable of being antisemitic is to show a staggering level of ignorance.

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm just trying to decide if I should see this as really, really sad or as some kind of joke.

Christians (yes, even real Christians) can be and often are antisemitic; their animosity, both as individuals and as authoritative groups, has been well documented throughout history. Their popes, pastors, priests, and other leaders have, at times, gone through great lengths to establish religious grounds for their hatred.
.

You do have a point, but it's my fault, because I didn't explain what a real Christian is. I can give you a practical example.
Father Placido Cortese was tortured to death in Triest for helping hundreds of Jews escape from Italy during the WW2.
He was tortured by the Gestapo because he didn't reveal where the Jews had gone.
Not to mention how many Roman Jews the Pope and other Catholic authorities helped.
That wasn't certainly an anti-semitic attitude

 

[Poeticus]

Let's not forget that Hitler and most Nazis worshiped Germanic gods. and they killed lots of Christian priests

That is hopelessly incorrect. Most Nazis were ardent Christians. In fact, the modern notion of "White Christian pride" was developed right after the fall of the Nazis by White supremacists here in the States---which was a derivative of an older formula:

Western Imperialism + "For God, Gold, and Glory" = _______you darn well know what it equals_______

Plus, when the Croatian Ustashe (in WWII) slaughtered a countless number of Orthodox Christians (the Serbs) and Jews, they were doing so with the backing of the Catholic Church. Not only is that a valid example of Christian-on-Jewish anti-Semitic violence, but also Christian-on-Christian (with a few teaspoons of socio-cultural reasons, of course).

And here's a random factoid: More Christians died because of other Christians from their socio-religious inception to 400/500 C.E., then all the Christians that were killed in the Persecutions (including the Great Persecution) combined.

This whole Blame-the-Pagan game is getting old.

 

[Estro Felino]

That is hopelessly incorrect. Most Nazis were ardent Christians. In fact, the modern notion of "White Christian pride" was developed right after the fall of the Nazis by White supremacists here in the States---which was a derivative of an older formula:

Western Imperialism + "For God, Gold, and Glory" = _______you darn well know what it equals_______

Plus, when the Croatian Ustashe (in WWII) slaughtered a countless number of Orthodox Christians (the Serbs) and Jews, they were doing so with the backing of the Catholic Church. Not only is that a valid example of Christian-on-Jewish anti-Semitic violence, but also Christian-on-Christian (with a few teaspoons of socio-cultural reasons, of course).

And here's a random factoid: More Christians died because of other Christians from their socio-religious inception to 400/500 C.E., then all the Christians that were killed in the Persecutions (including the Great Persecution) combined.

This whole Blame-the-Pagan game is getting old.

Yes, you can be a Christian above-board and worship occult forces secretly. I hope you speak German

Nicht nur Hitler, auch seine Getreuen glaubten – aber nicht an den Christengott. „Adolf Hitler selbst und mit ihm ein Teil der Prominenten – allen voran Rudolf Heß, Heinrich Himmler, der Frankenführer Streicher und der damalige SA-Chef Ernst Röhm glaubten felsenfest an geheimnisvolle, übernatürliche Mächte – an magische Gewalten, den Einfluß der Gestirne, die Kraft von Amuletten, Maskottchen, Talismanen.“ Pater Prof. Alois Mager wußte, warum er von Salzburg aus jeden Abend gegen den Obersalzberg den Exorzismus betete. (das Neue Groschenblatt 3/2002)

Robin de Ruiter schreibt: „In Hitlers nächster Umgebung waren Illuminaten und Satanisten.“ Genannt werden unter anderen Rudolf Hess und Martin Bormann. (147)

 

[Tarheeler]

You do have a point, but it's my fault, because I didn't explain what a real Christian is.
...

All of Christianity isn't defined by the actions one priest who you think makes a good role model. We could just as easily present Father Charles Coughlin, who, in the 1930's, used radio to spread his antisemitic views and support for some of Hitler's and Mussolini's policies, as the ideal example.

Perhaps Father Coughlin was the "real" Christian?

 

[Sees]

"We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else—in any case something which has nothing to do with us" - Adolf Hitler

Of course some Christians then, and now, try to pawn him off.

Yes, you can be a Christian above-board and worship occult forces secretly. I hope you speak German

Nicht nur Hitler, auch seine Getreuen glaubten – aber nicht an den Christengott. „Adolf Hitler selbst und mit ihm ein Teil der Prominenten – allen voran Rudolf Heß, Heinrich Himmler, der Frankenführer Streicher und der damalige SA-Chef Ernst Röhm glaubten felsenfest an geheimnisvolle, übernatürliche Mächte – an magische Gewalten, den Einfluß der Gestirne, die Kraft von Amuletten, Maskottchen, Talismanen.“ Pater Prof. Alois Mager wußte, warum er von Salzburg aus jeden Abend gegen den Obersalzberg den Exorzismus betete. (das Neue Groschenblatt 3/2002)

Robin de Ruiter schreibt: „In Hitlers nächster Umgebung waren Illuminaten und Satanisten.“ Genannt werden unter anderen Rudolf Hess und Martin Bormann. (147)

 

[Estro Felino]

All of Christianity isn't defined by the actions one priest who you think makes a good role model. We could just as easily present Father Charles Coughlin, who, in the 1930's, used radio to spread his antisemitic views and support for some of Hitler's and Mussolini's policies, as the ideal example.

Perhaps Father Coughlin was the "real" Christian?

Well...you have just given the perfect example of "the worst of the false Christians"....the worst of the worst. Garbage-people

 

[Estro Felino]

"We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else—in any case something which has nothing to do with us" - Adolf Hitler

Of course some Christians then, and now, try to pawn him off.

I think there is an enormous difference between the genuine Germanic religion and a secret esoteric Neopaganism filled with racism and eugenics.
of course Hitler couldn't be an occultist (and maybe even a Satanist) above-board

 

[Poeticus]

Well...you have just given the perfect example of "the worst of the false Christians"....the worst of the worst. Garbage-people

This is no different than Muslim rigorists saying that Jihadists aren't "true Muslims".

Come on, dawg, you can't pick n' choose, yo. This isn't a sale at Macy's.

 

[Tarheeler]

Not at all. I presented an ordained Catholic priest who is easily representative of many Christians.

Your instance that only the ideal you present can be held as authoritive is a fallacy; like most groups, Christianity is far too broad and diverse to be characterised by a single example, and there are both good and bad within the group. The Christian who firebombed his Jewish neighbor's house during kristallnacht is just as much part of the fabric of Christendom as is Father Cortese.

We all would like to ignore the bad within the groups we identify with and pretend it doesn't exist or claim that they can't be "real" members of the group, but to do so is detrimental to the group and often dangerous to society at large.

 

[Awoon1]

Christians are anti-Bible. They don't demonstrate any miracles that they are supposed to demonstrate written.