Christians: Explain this please

[sojourner]

such as when? Most often the ancient world had objects that represented gods. Not objects that were gods.

Did they worship those items? We're told that they did.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Did they worship those items? We're told that they did.

By whom?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Some groups do worship statues and such as deities. We see this now in some sects of Hinduism. I think this idea that they're only representations is a modern concept.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Some groups do worship statues and such as deities. We see this now in some sects of Hinduism. I think this idea that they're only representations is a modern concept.

There is no Hindu sect that I know of that considers any particular object a deity. The concept that they represent deities is extremely old and again I have never heard of any widespread usage of any kind where a religion would consider object to be gods. I am still waiting on a legitimate example of such.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Interestingly enough I was searching for one and according to the wiki definition of Idol Idolatry is "the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry

This in and of itself blows holes into the arguments held by the majority of churches against Idolatry and makes many of them hypocritical. The definition may be interpreted differently but this is a common held definition.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is no Hindu sect that I know of that considers any particular object a deity. The concept that they represent deities is extremely old and again I have never heard of any widespread usage of any kind where a religion would consider object to be gods. I am still waiting on a legitimate example of such.

I just asked a Hindu about that and he said that after a certain ceremony is performed, the deity is present in the representation and worshiped. Other sects also feed and dress murtis.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I just asked a Hindu about that and he said that after a certain ceremony is performed, the deity is present in the representation and worshiped.

This is no different than Christians inviting god into a church. The idol itself is not a god but can house the god. The idol is not a god.

 

[sojourner]

Interestingly enough I was searching for one and according to the wiki definition of Idol Idolatry is "the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry

This in and of itself blows holes into the arguments held by the majority of churches against Idolatry and makes many of them hypocritical. The definition may be interpreted differently but this is a common held definition.

Problem with this theory is that Christian churches don't worship physical objects.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Problem with this theory is that Christian churches don't worship physical objects.

The usage of crosses could be considered Idolatry if the usage of many images in pagan religions are considered idolatry. Catholicism for example does use images. I think it to be a loose difference to pray for a saint to help you and praying to a saint in order to help you.

 

[sojourner]

The usage of crosses could be considered Idolatry if the usage of many images in pagan religions are considered idolatry. Catholicism for example does use images. I think it to be a loose difference to pray for a saint to help you and praying to a saint in order to help you.

"Using images" isn't at all the same thing as "worshiping images." "Praying with" is a different thing than "praying too."

 

[Monk Of Reason]

"Using images" isn't at all the same thing as "worshiping images." "Praying with" is a different thing than "praying too."

In all honesty no it doesn't. If I were to kneel before a giant cross at a Church and pray to god it would be no different than if I were in a Buddhist temple praying to the Buddha in front of a Buddhist statue. If I was to ask st. whoever for help It is the same as asking "insert random god here" for help.

 

[Chakra]

Maybe I wasn't clear. The deity doesn't become a god itself, but it is a manifestation of God.

 

[sojourner]

If I were to kneel before a giant cross at a Church and pray to god it would be no different than if I were in a Buddhist temple praying to the Buddha in front of a Buddhist statue.

That's true, but then, the Buddhist statue isn't an idol that's prayed to.

If I was to ask st. whoever for help It is the same as asking "insert random god here" for help.

No it isn't. It is the same as praying a friend for help. What people do who pray with saints is to ask them to intercede to God. They're not praying to the saint. Your insistence doesn't make it so.

 

[sojourner]

Maybe I wasn't clear. The deity doesn't become a god itself, but it is a manifestation of God.

Indeed.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

That's true, but then, the Buddhist statue isn't an idol that's prayed to.

It just as much is as any other

No it isn't. It is the same as praying a friend for help. What people do who pray with saints is to ask them to intercede to God. They're not praying to the saint. Your insistence doesn't make it so.

In what way is it fundamentally different except in that they utilize god as the final medium? God itself would be similar to the "all" in hinduism for example. Or if you want a modern form of paganism that uses magic they would invoke gods or goddesses in order to assist them in making the changes required in the world as the god or goddess would have a more direct access to that vein of magic or power than we would as people. The functional usage of praying to a saint for help is identical to praying to a minor god or goddess. Your insistence that it doesn't doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Gerald Kelleher]

I just asked a Hindu about that and he said that after a certain ceremony is performed, the deity is present in the representation and worshiped. Other sects also feed and dress murtis.

Christians share a common symbolism with the Hindus even though the symbolism is not immediately apparent. Although the symbolism is more developed in Christianity it requires a type of character to get into the spiritual flow which gives meaning to these things otherwise the meaning vanishes as all delicate and intricate works do in the wrong hands.

 

[Domenic]

When most Christians see or hear about me having statues of my God and Goddesses, they start preaching about the golden calf and that I am dumb to worship statues. I explain that I do not worship the statues and that the statues represent the Deities that I do worship. They act like this makes no sense to them. At the same time, these same Christians will kneel and pray in front of a crucifix. To them a crucifix can represent Jesus without them actually worshiping the crucifix, but if a statue or figure is representative of my Gods and/or Goddesses they don't see how this same "symbolism" they they use holds true. Can you please explain why you think this way?

All who serve God,(and there is only one) are not to pray before any statue, cross, or picture.. Jesus said: "Do not pray to me, but to the Father through me."
This is for all people. Pray to God in any other way, he will not listen to you.
If you pray for the wrong thing, again he will not listen to you. So what is the right thing to pray for? We were created to serve the Father. What is a servant to ask of his master?
I understand what you are saying enchanted, and so does God, but he has commanded, "Do not make an image of anything in Heaven, or on Earth." If people do not follow that simple command, how will they stay true to God if they are faced with death at the hands of the world for serving him?

 

[rusra02]

No one worships the cross.

Roman Catholic writer and archaeologist Adolphe-Napoleon Didron stated: “The cross has received a worship similar, if not equal, to that of Christ; this sacred wood is adored almost equally with God Himself.”

 

[sojourner]

It just as much is as any other

Being focus of attention for prayer to something unseen isn't at all the same as being the object of prayer.

In what way is it fundamentally different except in that they utilize god as the final medium? God itself would be similar to the "all" in hinduism for example. Or if you want a modern form of paganism that uses magic they would invoke gods or goddesses in order to assist them in making the changes required in the world as the god or goddess would have a more direct access to that vein of magic or power than we would as people. The functional usage of praying to a saint for help is identical to praying to a minor god or goddess. Your insistence that it doesn't doesn't make it any less true.

The difference is that the saint isn't prayed to.

 

[sojourner]

Roman Catholic writer and archaeologist Adolphe-Napoleon Didron stated: “The cross has received a worship similar, if not equal, to that of Christ; this sacred wood is adored almost equally with God Himself.”

One man's hyperbole =/= truth. No Catholic authority will say that the cross has divine power of itself.