Christians: God made the universe out of nothing?

[Strength & Honor]

Does the Bible really make this claim? I was reading the book of Hebrews the other day, and I came upon this passage. I've read it before, but I've never really given it a second thought until now:

Hebrews 11:3 - By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

So I got to thinking, does this passage say that God indeed made the universe out something (even though that something may be invisible), or does it say that God made the universe out of nothing? What other passages can we use to determine the answer? Is there any way to be certain? Does it matter? Does the question make sense? I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Strength & Honor]

Nothing? Ok, I'll expand the discussion to anyone else who would like to participate.

 

[sojourner]

Creation ex nihilo, IMO, is not a Biblical concept -- at least for the writers of Genesis.

 

[Katzpur]

Does the Bible really make this claim? I was reading the book of Hebrews the other day, and I came upon this passage. I've read it before, but I've never really given it a second thought until now:

Hebrews 11:3 - By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

So I got to thinking, does this passage say that God indeed made the universe out something (even though that something may be invisible), or does it say that God made the universe out of nothing? What other passages can we use to determine the answer? Is there any way to be certain? Does it matter? Does the question make sense? I would appreciate your thoughts.

God did not create the universe out of nothing (i.e. ex nihilo) as most Christians believe. He created it out of existing matter, which in no way minimizes the magnificence of His creation. I'll wait till a few more posters have given their input before I follow up with my reasons for believing as I do.

 

[Katzpur]

Creation ex nihilo, IMO, is not a Biblical concept -- at least for the writers of Genesis.

I'm surprised to hear you say this, sojourner. I agree that it's not biblical. Do you personally believe in an ex nihilo creation?

 

[Dunemeister]

I agree with Katzpur. The bible does not teach creation ex nihilo. It states that God transformed existing chaotic and inhospitable matter into a habitable creation.

 

[Katzpur]

So it appears as if Dunemeister, Sojourner and I all believe the doctrine of an ex nihilo creation is not taught in the Bible. So why are most Christians so adamant that this is how it happened? Somehow, it seems to me that it's because they feel as if it somehow lessens God's greatness and glory. I don't follow their reasoning.

 

[Dunemeister]

Katzpur,

I think it has to do with the way St. Augustine formulated his doctrine of creation. The (western) church has traditionally followed him, more or less lock-step. However, there has always been a minority in the west (and a majority in the east) that followed the line you, me, and sojourner are following.

 

[ChristineES]

The Bible doesn't actually say what God made the universe out of. Since I believe the creation story to be symbolic, then anything said would be symbolic. It just states that it was created- nothing more. The Bible is not and was never meant to be a science book.

 

[Strength & Honor]

It states that God transformed existing chaotic and inhospitable matter into a habitable creation.

Where does it state this? Could you provide a passage, please?

 

[zippo9211989]

matter can be transformed into energy. Energy can be transformed into matter. If God has the energy, he can make things that appear to come from nothing.

 

[devilchasnme]

The Bible doesn't actually say what God made the universe out of. Since I believe the creation story to be symbolic, then anything said would be symbolic. It just states that it was created- nothing more. The Bible is not and was never meant to be a science book.

yet some look at science books like they were bibles

 

[stlekee]

If God is the creator, than he created everything, including that 'existing chaotic and inhospitable matter'. But who knows. I think more along the lines of 'what existed before the big bang'. There was no physical matter of any type, it was brought into existence.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Does the Bible really make this claim? I was reading the book of Hebrews the other day, and I came upon this passage. I've read it before, but I've never really given it a second thought until now:

Hebrews 11:3 - By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

So I got to thinking, does this passage say that God indeed made the universe out something (even though that something may be invisible), or does it say that God made the universe out of nothing? What other passages can we use to determine the answer? Is there any way to be certain? Does it matter? Does the question make sense? I would appreciate your thoughts.

I was not present when this event took place, so I can't be sure. As far as I'm concerned, the Big Bang and God creating the universe are one and the same. How this happened, I don't know. Will we ever find out? Not likely.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Wether God created the universe or it just happened. It went like this there was nothing and then there was something.

 

[Pegg]

Does the Bible really make this claim? I was reading the book of Hebrews the other day, and I came upon this passage. I've read it before, but I've never really given it a second thought until now:

Hebrews 11:3 - By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

So I got to thinking, does this passage say that God indeed made the universe out something (even though that something may be invisible), or does it say that God made the universe out of nothing? What other passages can we use to determine the answer? Is there any way to be certain? Does it matter? Does the question make sense? I would appreciate your thoughts.

the first point is to look at the context of hebrews. Paul was not discussing creation, he was discussing why faith in God is possible and why the ancient people of old had faith in God.
Hebrews 11:3 "By faith we perceive that the systems of things were put in order by God’s word, so that what is beheld has come to be out of things that do not appear".
We can understand what he meant by looking at what he wrote in Romans 1:19 "because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. 20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him

What Paul is saying here is that we can see God...who is unseen...through the things we CAN see such as his creations. This is what he was getting at in Hebrews too except he was applying the principle to 'faith'...basically we can have faith in God and the things he is yet to do because of the things we have seen him do in the past.

2ndly, the bible does in fact give an indication as to how God made the universe:
Isaiah 40:26 “Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing."

So the bible writers say that God used his 'energy' or 'power' to create the universe. This is scientifically sound because all matter is made from energy as Einstein rightly discovered.

hope that helps.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Wether God created the universe or it just happened. It went like this there was nothing and then there was something.

Agreed.

 

[Cary Kent]

Heb. 11..says that God created the World out of Things that do no Appear. There's vast amounts of things that I don't know of, and have never appear or have been seen by mortal man. But to assume that and I quote, "Things that do not appear. That does not mean the word, Nothing. Simply means what has appeared or comprehended by man, God in his infinite design, made the world out of what man has never seen or comprehended. God is Something.

 

[sojourner]

Does the Bible really make this claim?

No. I don't hold to creation ex hihilo.

 

[*Paul*]

Does the Bible really make this claim? I was reading the book of Hebrews the other day, and I came upon this passage. I've read it before, but I've never really given it a second thought until now:

Hebrews 11:3 - By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

So I got to thinking, does this passage say that God indeed made the universe out something (even though that something may be invisible), or does it say that God made the universe out of nothing? What other passages can we use to determine the answer? Is there any way to be certain? Does it matter? Does the question make sense? I would appreciate your thoughts.

The text in question is speaking of what substance or matter creation is made out of - which is not visible to the naked eye i.e atoms. This we understand by faith, we know it is true even though we cannot see it (or could not rather at the time of writing). It is being used as an example of faith as is the subject of the chapter. The writer is not speaking of the origin of the particles only their visibility.

This does not mean that God used some pre-existing matter to frame His creation just that the particles that creation consists of cannot be seen so we understand it by faith.