Christians, How do You Deal With Troublesome Scriptures?

[Phantasman]

Yet Jesus quoted from them all the time, thereby setting a pattern for us.

So did the Devil. And the Priests (Pharisee's/Sadducee's)

Jesus used them to try and make the Jews see him, through their former beliefs. Paul, who was raised in the Jews religion, discarded their effects on the Gospel truth, when teaching the Gentiles.

John 1:17

The Jews religion was neither based on grace or truth. Which is why Jesus said the Jews "fathers" were dead, and they followed the devil. He also said that Moses did not get his words from heaven.(Truth)

 

[Skwim]

That's on you. I explained it as plainly as possible.

If that that's the best you can do, what can I say.

In the voice of Rick James, "Free Will, it's a hell of a drug!"

Yeah, I guess I'd throw up my hands too.

Eh /shrug

I didn't say everything was mistranslation.

And, of course, I didn't say you did.

 

[Sleeppy]

That's some stamina, Skwim!!

Same way humans deal with every other problem like this: denial.

 

[Skwim]

I think the very Scripture you quoted regarding Saul explains it.....Saul "turned bad".

If anything, verses that reveal Jehovah God's regret -- and there are a few -- tell us that God doesn't make anyone follow Him, and be obedient. We all have freedom to make our own choices, and either suffer or benefit.

But that's not God's mistake.

It doesn't matter what the regret revolved around, but that it made god sorry he started it all. A person doesn't regret the things he's done right, but rather the things he did wrong; his mistakes.

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[Skwim]

It's quite obvious. The scribes who collated the books of the Pentateuch from the oral traditions which existed before them weren't there when all came into being, the tale itself is similar to others, older, from the same area and the several versions of the creation myth in the scriptures are all contradictory. They are not literal truth, they are myth and legend and thus far more important than simple, literal truth.

Sorry, but mere assertion doesn't do it. If you you're going to contend the Genesis stories are nothing more than myth then one can also make the same claim for the Jesus story. But maybe you do.

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[ADigitalArtist]

It and some of the other newer bibles translations are just terrible. I do not even consider them bibles. They are twisted version of fan fiction. Much like Fifty Shades of Grey - Wikipedia was twisted fan fiction of Twilight. That is my opinion of most of the newer translations is.

Can you give me some examples of what is irrevocably twisted?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It doesn't matter what the regret revolved around, but that it made god sorry he started it all. A person doesn't regret the things he's done right, but rather the things he did wrong; his mistakes.

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Again, it says, ‘Saul turned bad.’

Jehovah says at Deuteronomy 32:4 that His works are “perfect”. Part of his activity includes intelligent life. How they choose to live, isn’t His fault. And, I reiterate, he didn’t leave us without guidance.

When your children have at times made bad choices (hopefully not too many), does that mean you regret you had them, altogether?

M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia states: “God himself is said to repent [na·chamʹ, feel regret]; but this can only be understood of his altering his conduct towards his creatures, either in the bestowing of good or infliction of evil—which change in the divine conduct is founded on a change in his creatures; and thus, speaking after the manner of men, God is said to repent.” (1894, Vol. VIII, p. 1042)

So yes, it does matter how the term regret is being employed here.

Take care.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I accept that there are multiple authors with a wide range of biases including military propaganda and "church vs state" type issues.

That being said, God didn't make a mistake with Saul. The author put that there to distract us from the fact God told Samuel specifically to hire Paul because HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BAD SO THE PEOPLE WOULD STOP WANTING KINGS. That didn't work out, hence the plot twist that God was "sorry" He hired Saul.

 

[Skwim]

This one is easy. Anyone who has studied the Bible seriously would know the answer to it.
If you look at a few translations, you will find this for Gen 2:

19 And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought them to Man, to see what he would call them; and whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name.​

And with the waving of Letterman's pencil the verb tense is seen to fit so that all of a sudden there is no longer a problem to the believer. Only the unbeliever fails to know this, or the very inexperienced Bible student.

Yes I know. If cherry-picking a bible doesn't work then cherry pick the translation that does.

Here again I find that simply switching to another translation, there is no longer a problem.

Here, for the sake of giving an explanation that covers all bases, I have this quote for you: (What age was Jehoiachin when he began his reign?)

There are two primary explanations for the apparent contradiction between 2 Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9 in regards to Jehoiachin’s age. The first explanation is that this represents a copyist’s error. As the Old Testament manuscripts were copied by hand, from century to century, small and inconsequential errors found their way into the biblical text. In ancient Hebrew, the numbers 8 and 18 would have been differentiated by a very small mark. No matter how meticulous the scribes were, it would be understandable if one misread the number and recorded the wrong number on the new manuscript.​

So which one is correct, and how do you know?

It is important to remember that the inerrancy of the Bible only applies to the original manuscripts. The Bible is the best-preserved work from ancient times. With literally thousands of ancient manuscripts in existence, the reliability of the biblical text is not in question.

Then why do these inconsistencies arise? Nope, the reliability is no better than the reason we have so many translations. They were often put together so as to please their sponsors; a monarch, religious poo bah, or sponsoring organization. As I clearly pointed out in my example of Isaiah 45:7, what god created after he made peace in the verse is clearly up for grabs. Don't like the notion that he created evil, by far the most common option, then you can choose between bad times, disaster, calamity, woe, doom, troubles, discords, adversity, or hard times. Kind of nice to have a do-it-yourself Bible isn't it.

No textual variant has any impact whatsoever on any important biblical doctrine. Virtually all of the variations involve numbers, spelling, or the presence of a preposition. Further, due to the sheer number of biblical manuscripts, it is usually easy to determine which reading is correct in the instances of apparent copyist’s errors. Rest assured, the Bible is completely trustworthy.

I have no reason to be concerned with resting assured, but I can see why you need to convince yourself to do so; asserting that "No textual variant has any impact whatsoever on any important biblical doctrine." I know you don't know this to be a fact, but desperately require it to be true.

The second explanation in regards to Jehoiachin’s age in 2 Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9 is that 2 Chronicles records Jehoiachin’s age when he was appointed co-regent with his father, and 2 Kings records Jehoiachin’s age when, after his father’s death, he became king in his own right.

Evidence and source please. Mere assertion doesn't cut it.

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[Skwim]

Tbh it never said that God created man perfect. We sinned and then God was like "Oh for freaking sakes guys y'all had one job". Also, 2 Samuel and Deuteronomy 32 are prayers of people, and they testify to the justness of God's ways.

The issue isn't man's perfection, but god's.

Ooh look, words couched in worldviews from 2000-3000 years ago which now sound odd to modern ears when we try and carry them forward!

And still passed off today as the correct meaning.

Depending on the situation, either 1, 3, 4, something like 5, and 6. I don't define Biblical inerrancy or infallbility like any Fundamentalist would.

Thank you for sharing. You're one a few who's taken the time to bother.

.

 

[Enoch07]

Can you give me some examples of what is irrevocably twisted?

Not off the top of my head. I stopped using them years ago after I discovered how erroneous they are. I only use/respect the KJV, all other English version of the bible are subpar.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Not off the top of my head. I stopped using them years ago after I discovered how erroneous they are. I only use/respect the KJV, all other English version of the bible are subpar.

I mean, you seem to have gone from 'it' to 'it and a few others' to 'everything except the KJV.' Neverminding that there are plenty of arguments against the KJV being the most accurate English translation ( Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today "KJV Only" advocates refuted! Are There Mistakes in the King James Version of the Bible? ) Your complaint just seemed oddly specific against a fairly well respected translation. If it were the NWT I'd be totally there with you and I'm not a 'version purist' either. I use parallels.

 

[Enoch07]

I mean, you seem to have gone from 'it' to 'it and a few others' to 'everything except the KJV.' Neverminding that there are plenty of arguments against the KJV being the most accurate English translation ( Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today "KJV Only" advocates refuted! Are There Mistakes in the King James Version of the Bible? ) Your complaint just seemed oddly specific against a fairly well respected translation. If it were the NWT I'd be totally there with you and I'm not a 'version purist' either. I use parallels.

There are mistakes of translation in all of the translated bibles. The KJV is the best English translation imo. If you have a KJV and a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance to reference, you can get a very good understanding of the original message, with only a minor amount of effort.

 

[Enoch07]

I mean, you seem to have gone from 'it' to 'it and a few others' to 'everything except the KJV.' Neverminding that there are plenty of arguments against the KJV being the most accurate English translation ( Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today "KJV Only" advocates refuted! Are There Mistakes in the King James Version of the Bible? ) Your complaint just seemed oddly specific against a fairly well respected translation. If it were the NWT I'd be totally there with you and I'm not a 'version purist' either. I use parallels.

Also I might add E. W. Bullinger - Wikipedia has a great companion bible that I also I approve of.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

There are mistakes of translation in all of the translated bibles. The KJV is the best English translation imo. If you have a KJV and a Strongs Exhaustive Concordance to reference, you can get a very good understanding of the original message, with only a minor amount of effort.

I agree, there are mistakes in all English translated bibles. Probably in all modern Greek bibles too. What I haven't seen is that the KJV inherently conveys the message better, or has less errors, then NIV or NASB. The former of which is pretty well respected and the latter seen as the most literal you can get. Cross references make understanding easier, I agree. But moreso with parallels than single translations.

 

[kiwimac]

Sorry, but mere assertion doesn't do it. If you you're going to contend the Genesis stories are nothing more than myth then one can also make the same claim for the Jesus story. But maybe you do.

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These "mere assertions" are the result of scholars' years of study of the scriptures. You may be willing to throw that aside, I am not.

 

[kiwimac]

Not off the top of my head. I stopped using them years ago after I discovered how erroneous they are. I only use/respect the KJV, all other English version of the bible are subpar.

Bull dust.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Scriptures involving issues such as:

The order of events:

BEASTS created before man
Genesis 1:25-26
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Vs​

MAN created before beasts
Genesis 2:7-8...18-19
7 Then the Lord God took dust from the ground and made a man.] He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nose, and the man became a living thing. 8 Then the Lord God planted a garden in the East, in a place named Eden. He put the man he made in that garden.. . . .

19 18 Then the Lord God said, “I see that it is not good for the man to be alone. I will make the companion he needs, one just right for him.” 19 The Lord God used dust from the ground and made every animal in the fields and every bird in the air. He brought all these animals to the man, and the man gave them all a name.

​

Difference in fact

Jehoiachin was 18 years old
2 kings 24:8
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.​

Vs​

Jehoiachin was 8 years old
2 Chronicles 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

​

Perfect nature of god

His way is perfect
2 Samuel 22:31
31 “As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.

His works are perfect
Deuteronomy 32:4
The works of God are perfect, and all his ways are judgments: God is faithful and without any iniquity, he is just and right.
​

Vs

His mistake in making man
Genesis 6:6
the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

His mistake of making Saul King
1 Samuel 15:11
I regret making Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not performed My commands. And Samuel was grieved and angry [with Saul], and he cried to the Lord all night.

​

Conflicting translations

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create ____: I the Lord do all these things.

1. New Living Translation "Bad Times"
2. New International Version "Disaster"
3. King James Version "Evil"
4. New King James Version "Calamity"
5. Complete Jewish Bible "woe"
6. Common English Bible "Doom"
7. New Century Version "troubles"
8. The Message "Discords"
9. Reina Valera 1960 "Adversity"
10. New International Readers Version "Hard Times"

​

Do you

1.Concede they're there, shrug your shoulders, and continue on with your faith.

2. Claim they can't be issues because the Bible is inerrant, and continue on with your faith.

3. Admit they pose a problem, but can be explained away---even if you personally can't do so---and continue on with your faith.

4. Do your utmost to reconcile each and everyone of them, continuing on with your faith.

5. Say they don't matter because they don't affect the loftier message of the Bible, and continue on with your faith

6. Hate to admit they're quite troublesome and will start examining your beliefs, but continue on with your faith.

7.Thank Skwim for bringing these to your attention, and not continue on with your faith.

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They're only problematic to people who insist the Bible is some magical inerrant book, rather than a collection of human authored books compiled across thousands of years.

 

[Grandliseur]

Yes I know. If cherry-picking a bible doesn't work then cherry pick the translation that does.

So which one is correct, and how do you know?


Then why do these inconsistencies arise? Nope, the reliability is no better than the reason we have so many translations. They were often put together so as to please their sponsors; a monarch, religious poo bah, or sponsoring organization. As I clearly pointed out in my example of Isaiah 45:7, what god created after he made peace in the verse is clearly up for grabs. Don't like the notion that he created evil, by far the most common option, then you can choose between bad times, disaster, calamity, woe, doom, troubles, discords, adversity, or hard times. Kind of nice to have a do-it-yourself Bible isn't it.


I have no reason to be concerned with resting assured, but I can see why you need to convince yourself to do so; asserting that "No textual variant has any impact whatsoever on any important biblical doctrine." I know you don't know this to be a fact, but desperately require it to be true.


Evidence and source please. Mere assertion doesn't cut it.

.
​

Your last quotations of my material is of material I quoted from the website link given. As to your "So which one is correct, and how do you know?" about the problem of J.'s age, 8 or 18, how does this really matter? From my standpoint that problem is not even important. If the error arose from a copyist's pen, or from some secondary unknown reason as speculated, matters not at all from me. The fact of the matter that J. has been historically verified as a real person is the important fact to me. This tells us that the historical people in the Bible were real. Higher Bible Criticism has been proven wrong time upon time, but never do we hear of their ever owning up to the fact that gradually, more and more Biblical individuals come to light through other non-Biblical sources.

It seems that it is always attack attack, for the sake of tearing down, never do these people attempt to build up the Bible's reputation. As the high ones in the Bible times, they will get what they deserve from God since they serve the other side. Even such an individual as early as Balaam has been seen to be a real individual, though people like to make fun of this story, and this was before Israel conquered the promised land!

 

[David T]

Scriptures involving issues such as:

The order of events:

BEASTS created before man
Genesis 1:25-26
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Vs​

MAN created before beasts
Genesis 2:7-8...18-19
7 Then the Lord God took dust from the ground and made a man.] He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nose, and the man became a living thing. 8 Then the Lord God planted a garden in the East, in a place named Eden. He put the man he made in that garden.. . . .

19 18 Then the Lord God said, “I see that it is not good for the man to be alone. I will make the companion he needs, one just right for him.” 19 The Lord God used dust from the ground and made every animal in the fields and every bird in the air. He brought all these animals to the man, and the man gave them all a name.

​

Difference in fact

Jehoiachin was 18 years old
2 kings 24:8
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.​

Vs​

Jehoiachin was 8 years old
2 Chronicles 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.

​

Perfect nature of god

His way is perfect
2 Samuel 22:31
31 “As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord’s word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.

His works are perfect
Deuteronomy 32:4
The works of God are perfect, and all his ways are judgments: God is faithful and without any iniquity, he is just and right.
​

Vs

His mistake in making man
Genesis 6:6
the Lord regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

His mistake of making Saul King
1 Samuel 15:11
I regret making Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not performed My commands. And Samuel was grieved and angry [with Saul], and he cried to the Lord all night.

​

Conflicting translations

Isaiah 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create ____: I the Lord do all these things.

1. New Living Translation "Bad Times"
2. New International Version "Disaster"
3. King James Version "Evil"
4. New King James Version "Calamity"
5. Complete Jewish Bible "woe"
6. Common English Bible "Doom"
7. New Century Version "troubles"
8. The Message "Discords"
9. Reina Valera 1960 "Adversity"
10. New International Readers Version "Hard Times"

​

Do you

1.Concede they're there, shrug your shoulders, and continue on with your faith.

2. Claim they can't be issues because the Bible is inerrant, and continue on with your faith.

3. Admit they pose a problem, but can be explained away---even if you personally can't do so---and continue on with your faith.

4. Do your utmost to reconcile each and everyone of them, continuing on with your faith.

5. Say they don't matter because they don't affect the loftier message of the Bible, and continue on with your faith

6. Hate to admit they're quite troublesome and will start examining your beliefs, but continue on with your faith.

7.Thank Skwim for bringing these to your attention, and not continue on with your faith.

.
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EXACTLY, like the scientist who says "there is absolutely no free lunch, except the universe". A totally clueless self contradictory statement, believing its fully reasoned!!!!! That's HOW !!!! BTW Skwim it's called normal!.