christians - idols

[Mike182]

many christians believe that it is wrong to worship idols, is this really the case? i put this in the debate as it will most probably becoem one


ok, before we start this off, lets first of all sort out, what counts as an idol

this is open to everyone, im just interested to hear from other christians on this

C_P

 

[Scott1]

many christians believe that it is wrong to worship idols, is this really the case?

I would say that all Christians believe it is wrong.... but some people are confused about what constitutes an idol.

God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows (Num. 21:8–9), God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry.

 

[glasgowchick]

An Idol is anything we have more love for than God, there are a lot of things out there that could creep in and become our idol..money, our car, our home, football or soccer Our Idol is something that we spend more time on above God..Are there anything you hold precious in your life that you just couldnt give up for God ? whatever it is, then That is your Idol..[ I believe ]..Its kind of like, Oh I just love God but please don't ask me to give that up coz I love that too....

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I would say that all Christians believe it is wrong.... but some people are confused about what constitutes an idol.

God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows (Num. 21:8–9), God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry.

Absolute statements are almost always wrong. The Corinthian church had to be repeatedly told by Paul that it was wrong for Christians to worship idols. It is more correct to say that Christians are told that it is wrong by important leaders in their tradition, but whether or not Christians actually believe it is another matter entirely.

 

[Mike182]

good responses

a question, if i may

if i used a small gold statue when praying, because in my mind i can see this and understand God more than if i just dwelt on the concept of an inefable being, is this worshiping an idol, or worshiping God?

(im not saying i do this, im just purely interested, as it came up in a talk at my church on sunday)


glasgowChick, i liked your response a lot, and i guess i would be right in saying that a lot (if not all) christians suffer from cases like this, i know i do! i know that i would find it very hard to give up wearing the cloths i like, and to wear rags like many poor people do

C_P

 

[Quiddity]

good responses

a question, if i may

if i used a small gold statue when praying, because in my mind i can see this and understand God more than if i just dwelt on the concept of an inefable being, is this worshiping an idol, or worshiping God?

(im not saying i do this, im just purely interested, as it came up in a talk at my church on sunday)


glasgowChick, i liked your response a lot, and i guess i would be right in saying that a lot (if not all) christians suffer from cases like this, i know i do! i know that i would find it very hard to give up wearing the cloths i like, and to wear rags like many poor people do

C_P

I'm catholic, need I say more?
I would say your mind is on God, so he is the one you worship. Many things can remind of God.

~Victor

 

[michel]

I agree Victor; as long as you don't see the statue as a small 'replacement' for God, you're fine.

 

[Mike182]

I would say your mind is on God, so he is the one you worship. Many things can remind of God.

ya' see, we do agree on things

 

[glasgowchick]

Hi C-P , every good thing you have comes from God, accept it with thankfulness, God is not here to take things from you, He wants to give you good gifts, as God word says, if we being inperfect know how to give good gifts to our children [ paraphased ] how much more will God give to those who love Him..God is more concerned on how we use our blessings. do we use them to the Glory of God ? . We go wrong when we let these blessings from God become more important than God..Just remember, be thankful for all the wonderful things God Gives you, but always be ready to give them back if God asks....

 

[James the Persian]

I obviously agree with Victor and Michel (I'm Orthodox after all), except in that I would never use a statue. We have our stylised flat icons for a reason and that is so that we aren't tempted by the naturalistic images (overly real if you like) to confuse the spiritual reality pictured with the representation itself, which could lead to idolatory. Having said that, there's nothing actually wrong with venerating a statue, we just feel its easier for such veneration to become worship and so don't do it ourselves.

On a more personal note, I just don't like statues at all, not even secular ones. They give me the creeps.

James

 

[Alazye]

An Idol is anything we have more love for than God, there are a lot of things out there that could creep in and become our idol..money, our car, our home, football or soccer Our Idol is something that we spend more time on above God..Are there anything you hold precious in your life that you just couldnt give up for God ? whatever it is, then That is your Idol..[ I believe ]..Its kind of like, Oh I just love God but please don't ask me to give that up coz I love that too....

I agree, there is not a problem with having items of value, but it is when you spend more time thinking about and holding dear to your heart, then it becomes an idol.

 

[soma]

To follow in the steps of Jesus Christ does not mean that we worship Jesus as an idol, but that we follow him as our divine example, a consciousness embodying the deepest meaning of life. To follow Christ we need to make real our own inner meaning of life as Christ did as an example for humanity to love. Too many Christians worship a plastic Jesus that glows in the dark.

 

[soma]

The purpose of religion, ritual and symbolism is to give meaning to life beyond the ego-dominated world. As the mind explores these things it is led to thoughts that lie beyond the grasp of the ego and reason. If these practices are done in a meaningless way, that person is wasting his time because the person who knows the significance of what he is doing can overcome the ego's tendencies and make real the Christian purpose of life. We need a spiritual experience.

 

[WeAreAllOne]

Forgive me if I skimmed over this and missed it. According to what some of you are saying, loving you wife or husband more than God would be a sin? What about just spending more time on them they you do God, is that a sin as well?

 

[Mister_T]

Forgive me if I skimmed over this and missed it. According to what some of you are saying, loving you wife or husband more than God would be a sin? What about just spending more time on them they you do God, is that a sin as well?

The way I understand this concept is like this (I asked this same question myself). Love for God is different then the one you have for your spouse (Just like the love of your parents is a different type). It is hard to love God in the same way you love your spouse, parents, or friends because you don't interact with God physically. What is God? God is good. Love the good and recognize that it comes from God. Now the whole loving God above all else thing is like this: If your spouse one day told you that if you don't stop believing in God he/she would leave you, God would want you to pick him.

 

[soma]

I know this will upset many Christians which I am, but I see my wife and children as a part of God so by serving them I serve God.
God is everything so there is unity with everything. We are either for or against unity so for something new to be born we need to pass from a sense of being isolated into a realization of oneness with everything.
http://thinkunity.com

 

[Mister_T]

I know this will upset many Christians which I am, but I see my wife and children as a part of God so by serving them I serve God.
God is everything so there is unity with everything. We are either for or against unity so for something new to be born we need to pass from a sense of being isolated into a realization of oneness with everything.
http://thinkunity.com

Amen to that brother:jam:

 

[Abram]

I have a small issue with the cross. I've been reading through the Old Testament and it screams out no idols. It's in the 10 commandments, and almost every fall of man is linked to it.

Scott1 you made a great statement on the bronze serpent. But when I put it to thought, they actually were being punished for their desire to go back to Egypt. I can hear them whining now, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in this desert, where there is no food or water?" after he feeds them their still complaining "We are disgusted with this wretched food!" Also in 2 Kings 18:4 King Hezekiah takes it down because people were worshiping it.

But being a Baptist Christian I can't just go ask my pastor. This is a big battle I've been fighting and praying over. I know this can be contraversal subject but I'm not looking at changing your views, it's mine.

By what I hear the cross came from a dream or vision of a Christian crusader that wasn’t even Christian. No matter how it got here it's here. It's on Bibles, cars, necks, schools; Calvin is repenting to one on the back of a Ford, and placed in every corner of a church.

I get the point that we are coming to him to ask for forgiveness and we're not worshiping the cross we're worshiping Jesus. Meanwhile your pastor is preaching from in front of one. We make justifications for it. The very point that we are trying to justify it should throw up red flags.

I also pondered the thought that Jesus fee’s us from the law. I do agree he freed us from it, but doesn’t make them go away. They are only to show us we sin. He set some sort of bar we can't hit without him. Either way I think it is at lease safe to say that if at the least we asked him, he would say "You shall not carve idols in the shape of anything in or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth."

 

[sojourner]

I obviously agree with Victor and Michel (I'm Orthodox after all), except in that I would never use a statue. We have our stylised flat icons for a reason and that is so that we aren't tempted by the naturalistic images (overly real if you like) to confuse the spiritual reality pictured with the representation itself, which could lead to idolatory. Having said that, there's nothing actually wrong with venerating a statue, we just feel its easier for such veneration to become worship and so don't do it ourselves.

On a more personal note, I just don't like statues at all, not even secular ones. They give me the creeps.

James

I really, really love and appreciate that about the Orthodox Church. I have a few icons of my own that I contemplate.

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

idk i thank paintings and reparations of things in heaven is fine, but what i don't understand is that Jesus thought that to have a pure faith in him you need not these things so why are these things important?... but the bible dose tell that idols are the representation of the devil, if praying to a photograph is ok then down the line other more grieves acts are also ok... almost like a gateway drug, because you rationalize praying to idols to ask or pray to god instead of having a pure faith in Christ and God to talk to them directly. This is the way it seems to me when i read the bible. I don’t want to put any one down it seem you rationalize one thing knowing that what you are doing is wrong. That’s what I am getting out of this debate I’m sorry if I see it wrong… if I do I thank more explanation is in order…