Christians: Is Jesus a 'Deity'', to you?

[viole]

I believe I should be ROFLMAO. Did you flunk logic? That is a non-sequitur for sure.

I believe little is known about gravity. we know that there are attractions and repulsions. For instance neutrons and protons tend to stick together and even electrons will associate with a nucleus by a loose attractive force. (they can be drawn off it seems). We know that magnets have an attractive force (it seems like magic) However magnets can repulse as well. So if gravity is like magnetism then it is just as likely that there can be repulsion as attraction. Perhaps Einstein had something to say about gravity being warped but I don't remember exactly.

I beg your pardon?

Gravity being like magnetism or being warped? If mine was a non sequitur (it wasn't), your reply is not even that.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Muffled]

I beg your pardon?

Gravity being like magnetism or being warped? If mine was a non sequitur (it wasn't), your reply is not even that.

Ciao

- viole

Your logic was:

Naturalism is true
then there is no god.

The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Otherwise you are making an a priori statement that naturalism means there is no God but I don't believe that is provable so I don't see how it can be listed that way. Of course a priori statements are redundant. You would simply be stating the same thing in the premise as in the conclusion.

The likeness in magnetism and gravity is attraction and repulsion. I had to look up Einsteins theory but it basically says that gravity is related to the space/time continuum. It is space and time warped by gravity and not vice versa. However I am still a firm believer in anti-gravity.

 

[viole]

Your logic was:

Naturalism is true
then there is no god.

The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Otherwise you are making an a priori statement that naturalism means there is no God but I don't believe that is provable so I don't see how it can be listed that way. Of course a priori statements are redundant. You would simply be stating the same thing in the premise as in the conclusion.

The likeness in magnetism and gravity is attraction and repulsion. I had to look up Einsteins theory but it basically says that gravity is related to the space/time continuum. It is space and time warped by gravity and not vice versa. However I am still a firm believer in anti-gravity.

Sorry, but if naturalism is true, then God does not exist. By defnition of naturalism. Naturalism, by definition, rejects the supernatural. And if God is supernatural, then He does not exist, if the claims of naturalists are true. So, the conclusion does follow from the premises. Your job is to show that the premise might not be true. But you will try to crash open an open door. Naturalism might indeed not be true. But that is not sufficient to claim agnosticism about naturalism. Knowledge does not equate certainty. i know something, I am sure of very little.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Ingledsva]

Just an FYI....All the kings of Israel were referred to a messiahs back in the day.

Indeed, as I have shown many times. It means anointed.

However, they were waiting for a special Messiah, a special human from the line of David, - whom would bring about the end and Final Judgment of all in Sheol.

Moses mentions him, and Jesus claims to be the one mentioned.

(MOSES) Deu 18:15 YHVH Elohiym will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

(YHVH) Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

(Jesus) Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

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[Ingledsva]

Again, you don't have an argument, /in other words, just picking and choosing verses,, I'm not going to argue your fictional 'version' of the narrative. If you are not going to actually contextually use the Bible for arguments, then your arguments have no basis.

LOL! That is funny, - as YOU are doing the exact same thing.

We are both responding with verses from the Bible.

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[Desert Snake]

LOL! That is funny, - as YOU are doing the exact same thing.

We are both responding with verses from the Bible.

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There is interpretation, but interpretation is different from actually stating that the 'Scripture' itself, is just wrong. If there is something that I don't follow religiously, then i just say that, and don't try to modify what Scripture is inferring. /I'm not a Christian, I don't have a religious bias in interpreting the text.

The verses that are in question, have to be read in the context of other verses

 

[Ingledsva]

Matthew 28:18
Hebrews 1:7-12

Address these verses, if your'e presenting other verses

Just got back from Seattle. Is this meant for me? I've answered them before.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Hummm! Power is GIVEN to him. He doesn't already have it because he isn't God.

Power in Heaven and earth would have to be given to the awaited Jewish Messiah as he has a job to do in both places. He brings the end, and then sits in Final Judgment of ALL in Sheol. That is the Job of the Jewish Messiah, - whom IS NOT a God.

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Hebrews is written later copying others, and has obvious mistakes, such as 13, which they mistakenly think is Jesus - but it is actually King David.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (But He said it to HUMANS - such as King David. Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David,) Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.)

Heb 1:6 And again, when he (GOD) bringeth in the firstbegotten (First of a kind, Messiah) into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship (this word should have been translated to bow in reverence to, not worship, as is shown by Acts 10:25. Peter isn't worshipped, that would be a sin. They bow in reverence, respect, as to Kings, Prophets, etc.) him.

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. (The words come from a smelting furnace which burns off the dross and leaves the pure. It should be translated - and his ministers a purifying fire/blaze.)

Heb 1:8 But to the Son, Thy throne O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (To Jesus - YHVH's throne is forever.)

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God thy God, hath anointed thee (Messiah) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (This is God - the original subject - see verse 1.)

Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? (This is actually King David. Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. YHVH said unto my Lord (King David,) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. )

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Nothing written about Jesus in the NT actually says he is God.



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[Ingledsva]

There is interpretation, but interpretation is different from actually stating that the 'Scripture' itself, is just wrong. If there is something that I don't follow religiously, then i just say that, and don't try to modify what Scripture is inferring. /I'm not a Christian, I don't have a religious bias in interpreting the text.

The verses that are in question, have to be read in the context of other verses

LOL! That is funny.

I am not a Christian either.

I am also reading and interpreting the scriptures - in context. I also look them up in their original languages.

I have no bias in interpreting. There are Christian denominations today that read the Bible and do not find Jesus is God. The Nicene Councils prove the argument was the same clear back at that time. The religion Jesus taught came from the JEWS - a ONE God people, he taught their truths. It is pure bull that erroneous translations are trying to turn Jesus into some trinity God. It is not actually there in the NT.

EDIT - Forgot to add - where did I say the scripture is wrong? We are debating the actual meaning of translated texts. Many Translations are wrong.

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[Araceli Cianna]

This question is directed at Christians, however any Jesus adherents can answer, if it pertains to their beliefs.
/Is Jesus a 'Deity'?
/Is Jesus a 'different' Deity, from God, or the father?
/Is Jesus 'half man, half deity?
/Is Jesus a 'deified human', yet not a Deity?
/If Jesus is separate from the 'father', how is He 'G-d?

Yes, but not The Deity
Yes he's a different deity to Father God
Yes I would probably call him that, maybe a demi-god
Hmm, no, I believe he's a Deity
I don't believe he is God, but the firstborn Son of God (there's a difference)

 

[Muffled]

Sorry, but if naturalism is true, then God does not exist. By defnition of naturalism. Naturalism, by definition, rejects the supernatural. And if God is supernatural, then He does not exist, if the claims of naturalists are true. So, the conclusion does follow from the premises. Your job is to show that the premise might not be true. But you will try to crash open an open door. Naturalism might indeed not be true. But that is not sufficient to claim agnosticism about naturalism. Knowledge does not equate certainty. i know something, I am sure of very little.

Ciao

- viole

I believe I have never seen a definition of naturalism that says that God does not exist but if that were so then naturalism would be false.

I believe the natural and supernatural are both true and are consistent with each other.

I believe the reality is that God is the only thing that is natural because everything else was created and not naturally existing. From our perspective of only a short time it seems that everything exists making it natural and that God's ability to change that which exists is supernatural.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, but not The Deity
Yes he's a different deity to Father God
Yes I would probably call him that, maybe a demi-god
Hmm, no, I believe he's a Deity
I don't believe he is God, but the firstborn Son of God (there's a difference)

I believe there is no evidence to support the concept of a demi-god.

 

[Trichakra]

/Is Jesus a 'Deity'?

No he is not a deity.

 

[Desert Snake]

No he is not a deity.

You are a Christian?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Then Jesus is God!

John 2:18-22 (ESV Strong's) 18 So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

No, sorry. "The dead know not anything" (Ecclesiastes 9:5); their "thoughts perish" (Psalms 146:3-4).

So, how should John 2:19-21 be understood? In the same way that the woman in Matthew 9, who suffered from a 'flow of blood,' healed herself! Did she?! Apparently, for Jesus told her, at Matthew 9:22, "Your faith has made you well."

If she hadn't had faith, she wouldn't have gotten healed. The outcome rested on her. The same with Jesus....he knew that nothing was going to destroy his faith in, and obedience to, his Father, Jehovah. But it rested on him.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I can't figure out why you folks keep reading these texts as Jesus is God, rather then what he says, = he is the Messiah. The messiah has a job to do = bringing the end, and Final Judgment.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel (Pastor) of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Also translates as, - the commencement (carrying out) of the ordinance/LAWS of God;

In other words - the MESSIAH brings the truth - and begins - justice - Final Judgment.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Why would there need to be TWO thrones in heaven - if Jesus is God????

They did not teach that there were multiple Gods in heaven. These thrones are for YHVH, and his prophesized special HUMAN Messiah (Line of David) who was to bring the end, and make Final Judgment.

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Great reasoning! Unfortunately, many minds are blinded!

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes, but not The Deity
Yes he's a different deity to Father God
Yes I would probably call him that, maybe a demi-god
Hmm, no, I believe he's a Deity
I don't believe he is God, but the firstborn Son of God (there's a difference)

Thanks, interesting.
What is your interpretation of
Hebrews 1:7-10 ?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The answer to all of those questions will depend upon which sect you are asking, and there are thousands of sects across the globe. God luck sorting that one out.

Boy, ain't that the truth!
Interesting that Jesus said, a person searching should look for fruitage, i.e. how they would act, (not necessarily the teachings) of those professing to be His followers. -- Matthew 7:21-23. The correct teachings would be found with this group.

Why? Because, acting in a way that God approves, in a world that's totally against them (as Jesus prophesied: being different from the world, they would "be hated" by it), would require having God's help -- His spirit, blessing and protection on them, and they would be given understanding of His Word. (Luke 10:21)

Since Jesus spoke only what God wanted him to, we need to obey Jesus. (John 14:15; John 14:24) He said, 'love your enemy' (Matthew 5:44), 'love your brother' (John 13:34-35), and 'avoid being part of the world' -- John 15:19; John 17:14-16.

Take care!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

As muslims we believe the same. What denomination of Christianity are you?

Sorry that they didn't answer your question:
We are Jehovah's Witnesses!

 

[Araceli Cianna]

Thanks, interesting.
What is your interpretation of
Hebrews 1:7-10 ?

After careful analysis I feel that these verses refer to Jesus as God's representative. No one has seen or can see the Father, but we can see Him through Jesus as a reflection of the Father. Through Jesus all things were made, he is a god, the highest deity, or perhaps through grace (e.g. anointing) the highest being which Father God used to represent Himself. That is to say Jesus is so much like the Father that he can be called God, but I would still separate him as a different entity to Father God.

In essence what I'm saying is that they are both gods, but they are united in their purpose.

 

[viole]

I believe I have never seen a definition of naturalism that says that God does not exist but if that were so then naturalism would be false.

You forgot to say: i think. Or: I believe.

I believe the natural and supernatural are both true and are consistent with each other.

Good for you.

I believe the reality is that God is the only thing that is natural because everything else was created and not naturally existing. From our perspective of only a short time it seems that everything exists making it natural and that God's ability to change that which exists is supernatural.

There is no god. i think.

Ciao

- viole