Christians: Is the Republican party God's party?

[work in progress]

The Conservative retard we elected is the sort of flaming socialist your country will never have. I hate him, but at least he's sort of competent and doesn't threaten our society's infrastructure and social safety net to the extent that the stuff he does can't be undone when we kick him to the curb.

Assuming that you're talking about Harper -- he's competent enough to be able to read poll numbers and to realize that the equivalent Religious Right in Canada, is only half the size as the American lobby. But, they are actively cultivating this base, following the game plan that Republicans and big time televangelists started with 35 years ago; so we can expect it to slowly grow and move further and further up front if the Conservatives maintain a permanent, or near permanent control of the Federal Government....Provincial conservatives, like this dufus - Tim Hudak, here in Ontario, is following the same gameplan as Harper. So, if he managed to win the Ontario Election, we in Ontario can expect provincial and federal governments dedicated to dismantling environment policies, gutting campaign funding regulations, adopting more of the American method of criminal justice - filling the prisons and then arguing for building privately run prisons, pro- U.S. and pro- Israel foreign policy - this is a disastrous route, considering that past Liberal and Conservative governments have always strived to be independent of Washington.

If Brian Mulroney did one good thing in Office, it was pushing both Reagan and Thatcher to end their support for the Apartheid Government of South Africa. It was only when South Africa lost backing of the U.S. and Britain that they realized they had to fold, and start negotiating with the ANC. So, what do we have today, looking at a similar situation in the Middle East? We've climbed out on the same limb with the U.S. that gives the hardline fanatics running Israel the confidence that they have no need to negotiate with anyone and can do whatever the hell they want. Our present Conservative leader seeks no such honest broker position, so if there is peace in the Middle East, Canada will certainly not be able to claim any credit for it!

Looking at the larger picture, the trends in Canada regarding income stratification and rising poverty are occurring faster than in the U.S., largely thanks to our oil company-sponsored Prime Minister turning us into a petrostate. On the present course, Canada will end up like all other petrostates: an autocratic dictatorship with an economy that solely depends on oil revenues.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Maybe you're the person I need to ask this question, since the Christian Republicans keep dodging it: are libertarian capitalist economic policies in harmony with the Biblical teachings on social issues and especially regarding the rich and the poor?



My guess would be that it's a combination of two things:
1. The Republican leaders still have a tenuous grasp on reality, and have policy advisers who inform them of the potential blowback of criminalizing abortion. (it wasn't that long ago that abortion was illegal, and the social harms were widely recognized)
2. They want their "family values" rhetorical points as campaign issues; so doing anything more than piecemeal attacks on abortion access would end the abortion issue's usefulness to motivate religious conservatives to vote against their economic interests. And, on that subject, may I suggest adding:
What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America
to your reading list. From the Amazon review:

In asking “what ’s the matter with Kansas?”—how a place famous for its radicalism became one of the most conservative states in the union—Frank, a native Kansan and onetime Republican, seeks to answer some broader American riddles: Why do so many of us vote against our economic interests? Where’s the outrage at corporate manipulators? And whatever happened to middle-American progressivism? The questions are urgent as well as provocative. Frank answers them by examining pop conservatism—the bestsellers, the radio talk shows, the vicious political combat—and showing how our long culture wars have left us with an electorate far more concerned with their leaders’ “values” and down-home qualities than with their stands on hard questions of policy.
​

I have a limited understanding about the Libertarians as they don't have much influence in the US. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought their economic platform resembled the limited government that the Republicans advocate. I think the Republican economic platform is downright heartless in some ways.

 

[Revoltingest]

...are libertarian capitalist economic policies in harmony with the Biblical teachings on social issues and especially regarding the rich and the poor?

If Xian values mean leaving charitable works & donations up to the conscience of the individual, rather than being an
obligation imposed by the state, then perhaps libertarian econ policies are the most Xian (even if not all individuals are).

I have a limited understanding about the Libertarians as they don't have much influence in the US. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought their economic platform resembled the limited government that the Republicans advocate.

If our platform resembled theirs, they might have a shot at recruiting some of us. But alas, Repubs are too wedded to the economics
of big government, high taxes, foreign adventurism & crony capitalism. That, & our different social agendas keep us separate.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

If Xian values mean leaving charitable works & donations up to the conscience of the individual, rather than being an
obligation imposed by the state, then perhaps libertarian econ policies are the most Xian (even if not all individuals are).


If our platform resembled theirs, they might have a shot at recruiting some of us. But alas, Repubs are too wedded to the economics
of big government, high taxes, foreign adventurism & crony capitalism. That, & our different social agendas keep us separate.

Are you a libertarian? I thought you guys believe in small government and small interfence in social issues. Republicans at least compared to the Dems are advocates of small government. Is your idea of small gov that much different than Reps?

 

[Alceste]

Well, alrighty then. You can keep him.

I think he'd rather live with you guys.

 

[work in progress]

If Xian values mean leaving charitable works & donations up to the conscience of the individual, rather than being an
obligation imposed by the state, then perhaps libertarian econ policies are the most Xian (even if not all individuals are).

Yeah, that charity thing really worked for Ron Paul's former campaign adviser didn't it? The verses from Acts that I quoted previously presented giving over of personal wealth to the community as an obligation, not an option! And when the holy spirit or an angel whispered in Paul's ear that the rich couple were holding out, they were both divinely executed. I'm not declaring my support for the authoritarian socialism of this first century Christian community in Acts, but it is what it is, and today's so called fundamentalists conveniently ignore it.

But, a reading through the 66 books of the Bible are filled with concern for the poor, and condemnations of the rich and the powerful. So, not only are libertarian principles unchristian, they aren't even in harmony with the writings of the OT prophets on the subject of wealth and obligations to the poor.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, that charity thing really worked for Ron Paul's former campaign adviser didn't it?

It sounds like you already have the answer you want.
How's 'bout explaining what happened to him & providing links.

 

[javajo]

If the GoP is God's party, I may be in trouble

 

[Walkntune]

Jesus came to do away with the law, not become one sided with it! Christians are called to walk in love against such there is no law.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you a libertarian?

Yes.

I thought you guys believe in small government and small interfence in social issues.

Yes.

Republicans at least compared to the Dems are advocates of small government. Is your idea of small gov that much different than Reps?

Pubs aren't about small gov't, low taxes, or eschewing foreign adventurism.

The differences between parties once again......with adjustments.....
Dem: Pretend to like black & poor folk.
Pubs: Pretend to like free enterprise.
Statists: Know they run the whole show.
Libertarians: Dream that we might matter some day.

 

[work in progress]

It sounds like you already have the answer you want.
How's 'bout explaining what happened to him & providing links.

I'm sure I've already posted it at least twice; and if you've never heard the story before, that would serve as evidence of the conservative/libertarian censorship of bad news stories! This is from Rob Kall's OP-ED News article, which contains all of the relevant links: Libertarian Legacy? Ron Paul's Campaign Manager, 49, Dies Uninsured, Of Pneumonia, Leaving family $400,000 Debt

The Wall Street journal reports that Kent, more than anyone else, persuaded Ron Paul to run for president. And Kent, according the the WSJ, developed what "ultimately became a $35 million operation with 250 employees that helped deliver more than one million votes for the Texas congressman's bid in the Republican nominating contest."-

Ron Paul posted this message about Snyder on his website: ""Like so many in our movement, Kent sacrificed much for the cause of liberty, Kent poured every ounce of his being into our fight for freedom. He will always hold a place in my heart and in the hearts of my family."

Sadly, the Libertarian heart apparently does not include health care. The poor guy raised tens of millions of dollars and couldn't afford the $300-$600 a month that COBRA medical insurance would have cost.

Paul has some good ideas-- get out of Iraq, get the US out of a lot of other countries. But his opposition to government, to universal health care-- these ideas just don't work-- and his campaign manager's death makes a tragic example of it.

A website has been created to help raise the $400,000 to pay the medical bills.
​

But I'm guessing that most of Ron Paul's supporters will say:"Let him die!"

 

[work in progress]

Although I don't appreciate everything comedian - Bill Maher has to say...he's one of these talk first, think later kind of guys....his most recent episode of Real Time has something to say about how Christian the modern Republicans are:
Bill Maher Wonders What Would Happen If Jesus Ran For The GOP Nomination

Maher offers a good analysis of the Republican messiah complex that surrounds a promising new leadership hopeful, and how quickly they turn on him or her when they open their mouths and start talking.

A Daily Kos blogger went through the trouble of creating a transcript of the video...the first part is too blue to make sense, as too much of the monologue would be censored, but the latter half -- the first 10 days of Jesus for President illustrate the contrast between traditional Christian values and the modern rightwing Christian version:

And that's the downside to living in a fantasy world. For a Republican candidate to not disappoint you, he would have to be Jesus of Nazareth. And even Jesus would be toast after a few news cycles. Because "feed the hungry"? Sounds suspiciously like welfare. And "heal the sick"... for free?? (wild audience applause) That is definitely Obamacare! And "turn the other cheek"? Maybe you didn't hear, Jesus, but this is the party that cheers executions.
So here now is the short campaign timeline of Jesus Christ, Republican candidate.
Day 3
Three days after Jesus announces he's in, a Gingrich spokesman reports that he read Jesus's book... and finds some aspects of it troubling. Mitt Romney says Jesus's previous statements make him appear anti-business. And Rick Perry asks if America is ready for a Jewish President. And then Rick eats a paint chip.
Day 7
At the Republican debate, the other candidates pile on the new frontrunner. Michele Bachmann calls the meek inheriting the earth a colossal expansion of the estate tax. And Newt Gingrich scores the big zinger when he says, "Mr. Christ, America can't afford another cheek!"
Day 9
Teabaggers start getting e-mails from their idiot brother-in-law about how Jesus is not even from this country. (wild audience applause) And was born alongside a bunch of animals in a manger. And not to harp on it, but where's the birth certificate? And if he's a carpenter, is he too pro-union?
Day 10
Jesus is now polling fourth behind Perry, Romney, and the pizza guy. And in a desperate attempt to gain credibility, he goes to New York and has coffee with Trump... who pronounces him, "a decent guy, but a little effeminate".
​

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sure I've already posted it at least twice; and if you've never heard the story before, that would serve as evidence of the conservative/libertarian censorship of bad news stories!

A libertarian conspiracy?
This is the first I've ever heard that accusation!
We've come so far, that now we rank up there with mainstream conspirators......evolutionists, atheists, Jewish bankers, the Rothschilds, the Illuminati, or Skull & Bones members, eh?
We are honored indeed.

But I'm guessing that most of Ron Paul's supporters will say:"Let him die!"

This is the point where I'd use one of those face palm thingies.

 

[work in progress]

A libertarian conspiracy?
This is the first I've ever heard that accusation!
We've come so far, that now we rank up there with mainstream conspirators......evolutionists, atheists, Jewish bankers, the Rothschilds, the Illuminati, or Skull & Bones members, eh?
We are honored indeed.

You know very well how it works in the rightwing blogosphere and rightwing radio and TV! I know, because I still have most of my links from my more conservative thinking days. I won't say that the left blogosphere is unbiased - and that's why I try to keep a wide range of sources. But, the problem with the rightwing world is that it has had big sacks of money thrown at it since the mid-70's...when the Koch Brothers and some other politically active aristocrats created the Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute and the American Enterprize Institute. Ever since then, they get their messages drummed in to the public through sheer media saturation.

 

[work in progress]

Pubs: Pretend to like free enterprise.

Fact is - there is not, and never can be such a thing as "free enterprise." Every enterprise is a social engagement and requires varying degrees of collective support to be carried out.

"Free enterprise" is the fool's gold of economic theory! It's a rhetorical device to keep people who have a slim or no chance of success, to cooperate with the system that rewards those who already have the wealth and the power.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fact is - there is not, and never can be such a thing as "free enterprise." Every enterprise is a social engagement and requires varying degrees of collective support to be carried out.
"Free enterprise" is the fool's gold of economic theory! It's a rhetorical device to keep people who have a slim or no chance of success, to cooperate with the system that rewards those who already have the wealth and the power.

That's one way to view things....there is no "free enterprise", no "democracy", no "communism", etc, etc.
But when I use the terms, most people know what they mean. Lacking alternatives, it makes sense to use them.

 

[Shades-o-Blue]

I doubt God has a party, but I'm certain He doesn't want us supporting tyrants.

 

[gdemoss]

God is a communist (Not a Marxist). He supports voluntary communism. God hates capitalism. Capitalism supports the strongest and smartest to become the wealthiest while suppressing those who are weaker. God specifically gives gifts unto men for the benefit of others not self. Republicans love capitalism. They push for a moral standard on everything but covetousness. Democrats want a bigger government and to forcibly extract money from the people to distribute as they see fit. There has never been a real follower of Jesus Christ elected into office and never will be. To be elected you have to be voted in by a majority vote. The world hates Jesus. Narrow is the way and few there be that find it. Who is going to elect someone who calls out sin for what it is? I can see the campaign promises. I will work to completely remove Gambling, topless bars, abortion, divorce. Lying will be a criminal offense! Yeah right, never happen.


I live as a voluntary communist. I go to work and give my all. I use what I need for the necessities. Then I give to them that ask of me as well as to those I run across that have need. If I ever find a church that actually believes and lives by the bible then I'd just stick the extra in the collection for the poor saints. Haven't found a church that actually does that most use 1 Cor 16 as an excuse to collect a tithe which is wrong.

One last note on voting. If you know that a candidate has views that are contrary to the Gospel truth and you vote for them, you take part in their sin. Don't vote for sinners!

 

[work in progress]

God is a communist (Not a Marxist). He supports voluntary communism.

You would think the opposite from hearing the words of our modern Pharisees, but the Bible does not have good things to say about our "job creators" and "achievers." IN at least one example -- the early Christian community described in Acts ch.4, it wasn't voluntary either; since the rich man - Ananias and his wife - Sapphira, were supernaturally executed for trying to hold out a little of their wealth.

God hates capitalism. Capitalism supports the strongest and smartest to become the wealthiest while suppressing those who are weaker.

There is a bizarre, modern religion in economic theory that picked up and ran with a notion Adam Smith described in the Wealth Of Nations" -- that there is an "invisible hand" guiding the marketplace -- that will naturally regulate capitalism without interference or redistribution of wealth. It's an irony that fundamentalist conservatives never seem to get -- they reject emergence as a principle that drives biological evolution, yet they embrace the same principle of emergence if it's applied to capitalism! But, for markets to be self-regulating, the people, or most of the people would have to be rational and free of all vices. The financial meltdown three years ago, revealed that some of the players in market derivatives behaved in a malicious, psychopathic manner - deliberately trying to ruin others financially, even when there was little or no advantage for themselves.

The natural progression of unregulated capitalism is for the larger and more profitable enterprises to attempt full control of their markets. And they will dump products below cost to bankrupt a competitor, buy out a competitor, and buy out the existing political process and have laws and regulations written in their favour. Eventually, unregulated or poorly regulated capitalism leads to where we are now -- a plutocracy of global corporations who run something that could best be described as Inverted Totalitarianism

God specifically gives gifts unto men for the benefit of others not self. Republicans love capitalism. They push for a moral standard on everything but covetousness. Democrats want a bigger government and to forcibly extract money from the people to distribute as they see fit. There has never been a real follower of Jesus Christ elected into office and never will be. To be elected you have to be voted in by a majority vote. The world hates Jesus. Narrow is the way and few there be that find it. Who is going to elect someone who calls out sin for what it is? I can see the campaign promises. I will work to completely remove Gambling, topless bars, abortion, divorce. Lying will be a criminal offense! Yeah right, never happen.

Church historians generally agree that the early Christian community considered the system they were living under to be a temporary thing, and so they did not even attempt to develop theories of government, law, and economics. Over the centuries, all of the NT verses proclaiming that God's Kingdom is no part of this world, have been taken to heart by fringe Christian sects and cults who determined that Satan runs all of the governments of this world and they would have to separate themselves from them. We're familiar with Amish and Mennonites, who formed isolated communities to live free of worldly government and worldly people; but one cult I grew up in (Jehovah's Witnesses) forbids members from voting or having any connection with politics because of those same verses in the Bible.

Most Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that started up in the last 100 years or so, were hostile to the system -- believing the last days were coming soon, but were involved in the political process to a modest degree. But, the modern day right wing Christianity of trying to Christianize America is a product of Dominionism and the Christian Reconstructionist Movement. But, Dominionists are not pre-millenial -- they either believe things stay as they are, or they have to Christianize the nation and then the world before Jesus can come back. But, even though strict reconstructionist ideology is not widely accepted, there influence has rubbed off in a big way with movements like the New Apostolic Reformation, which has been the driving force behind Rick Perry's run for the White House.

I live as a voluntary communist. I go to work and give my all. I use what I need for the necessities. Then I give to them that ask of me as well as to those I run across that have need. If I ever find a church that actually believes and lives by the bible then I'd just stick the extra in the collection for the poor saints. Haven't found a church that actually does that most use 1 Cor 16 as an excuse to collect a tithe which is wrong.

I'm not a Christian, but I would be happy to live in a world where most Christians were following that version of Christianity, rather than this church of greed and nationalism that receives so much attention!

 

[gdemoss]

You would think the opposite from hearing the words of our modern Pharisees, but the Bible does not have good things to say about our "job creators" and "achievers." IN at least one example -- the early Christian community described in Acts ch.4, it wasn't voluntary either; since the rich man - Ananias and his wife - Sapphira, were supernaturally executed for trying to hold out a little of their wealth.

When I read about Ananias and Sapphira, what is clear to me is that their crime was lying to the Holy Spirit and not holding out on the funds. If holding out were the case then God would have made that clear through out the New Testament. I like to make sure that my children completely understand why they are being punished. I tell them "No your not getting punished for spilling your pop all over the living room carpet, your being punished for 'disobeying' my command to not have soda in the living room.

Church historians generally agree that the early Christian community considered the system they were living under to be a temporary thing, and so they did not even attempt to develop theories of government, law, and economics. Over the centuries, all of the NT verses proclaiming that God's Kingdom is no part of this world, have been taken to heart by fringe Christian sects and cults who determined that Satan runs all of the governments of this world and they would have to separate themselves from them. We're familiar with Amish and Mennonites, who formed isolated communities to live free of worldly government and worldly people; but one cult I grew up in (Jehovah's Witnesses) forbids members from voting or having any connection with politics because of those same verses in the Bible.

I don't follow anything other than the bible itself. I leave all of the history of the church and whatever has been said that was said alone.

There is nothing in scripture the commands me to take part in government nor to abstain from doing so. If I can walk as Jesus walked and become the president of the USA it is perfectly acceptable with God. Unfortunately I could never be elected as most people hate God and his ways.

I looked into Amish, Mennonite, Old German Baptist Brethren etc. when looking for a sect or denomination that actually followed what was in the bible. None of them were acceptable.

Is Satan running the governments of the world? It is an interesting question to pose. From a biblical perspective, I would have to answer yes. He is the God of this world. According to the word, anyone who isn't actually following Jesus (not just saying but doing) is following Satan. Because Satan is the original rebel. There currently is a religious system in place that seems to have biblical foundations but actually deny the Christ they claim to serve in there doctrines. Many candidates for office spring out of these so called denominations of Christianity. They fill the Senate and House legislating for the people without ever serving God except to further his plan of allowing Satan to ultimately rule the world through the Antichrist. They are setting the stage well.

As for voting. The bible gives me no instruction outright. There are however many different principles that I use to draw my conclusion. I have but one King, Jesus. He has told me to obey the government, obeying every ordinance of man for his sake. He has told me not to take part in other mens sins. As soon as I find that a candidate holds a position that is sinful, I can not vote for him. God requires that the leadership of his church be blameless (without sin). I don't think he would require less from government leaders. I have yet to find a candidate that I can vote for in good conscience toward God.

Most Evangelical and Pentecostal churches that started up in the last 100 years or so, were hostile to the system -- believing the last days were coming soon, but were involved in the political process to a modest degree. But, the modern day right wing Christianity of trying to Christianize America is a product of Dominionism and the Christian Reconstructionist Movement. But, Dominionists are not pre-millenial -- they either believe things stay as they are, or they have to Christianize the nation and then the world before Jesus can come back. But, even though strict reconstructionist ideology is not widely accepted, there influence has rubbed off in a big way with movements like the New Apostolic Reformation, which has been the driving force behind Rick Perry's run for the White House.

Rick Perry is a heretic who is an antichrist. When these so called Christians get elected to office, ask yourself how they match up to this verse. "Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." LK 6:20 They are supposed to be being hated for Jesus's name but instead these seem to find favor with men.

I'm not a Christian, but I would be happy to live in a world where most Christians were following that version of Christianity, rather than this church of greed and nationalism that receives so much attention!

This world is coming. And those who currently live as if it were here will be there. No one else. People make the bible out to be something difficult to interpret. It isn't. It means what it says and scripture interprets scripture. No one has the right to interpret it for themselves. To learn the truth I humbled myself before God in prayer begging him not to let me be deceived. He opened my eyes. I understood the simplicity of the whole problem with creation. Self-will. I was created to worship and enjoy God, unfortunately I chose to worship myself and the creation instead.

To summarize, both the Republican and Democrat parties are currently run by antichrists, making them under Satans control. The mystery of lawlessness is almost reached it's climax.

To God be the glory