Christians:Is The Trinity Truly Biblical(A Separate Thread)

[Katzpur]

God's essence I think is precisely that, His 'Being'.

Now we're going around in circles. God's essense is His being and His being is His essence. I don't know any more now than when I started.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

It is not enought that you mention that 'it is significant and discussed in numerrous occassions. you have to biblically prove that the trinity is significant. besides, this is a biblical debate.

Are you saying interpreted the verse incorrectly? how so? and what is the correct interpretation then?

you said "one cultural source'? explain that biblically.


this is a biblical debate, i wish to see verses. thank you!

Do you believe that Jesus was without sin?

 

[uss_bigd]

"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but If these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written." John 21, 24-25

sigh.

Michel, its only about pride now. you are hiding from verses that show mystery and assume that your trinitaria mystery is included there.

is St Patrick biblical? yes or no, true or false? come one man...

" Their cannot be your truth and my truth, but only the truth. the question is how much do we know about it. what matters is we get a proper view point"

Michel07

 

[Katzpur]

We should not forget that Jesus also said " If you have seen me you have seen the Father."

Rather than put words into your mouth (I hate it when people do that to me), I'm going to ask you to explain what you believe that means. I understand it as meaning, "I look like my Father." Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus was "the express image of his [Father's] person." If this is the case, it substantiates my belief that the Father and the Son look exactly alike. The Son is in the "express image" of His Father. It's impossible to be in the image of oneself, since an image is clearly separate from the original.

Maybe I don't need to fully understand. I still believe in the mysteries of God, Lord knows I sure don't understand everything that goes on in this world.

Well, that makes two of us, and I certainly wouldn't want to come across as if I think I know everything there is to know. Two things I do know, though, are that (1) eternal life is to know God and Jesus Christ, whom He sent here to earth and (2) God is not the author of confusion. We may not know everything about Him, but He is far less complicated than the philosophies of men have made Him.

 

[uss_bigd]

Do you believe that Jesus was without sin?

yes as a matter of fact. i am looking for the supporting verse right now.

 

[Michel07]

Now we're going around in circles. God's essense is His being and His being is His essence. I don't know any more now than when I started.

Why should we , isn't it God who said " I am who Am." By the way,thank you Katzpur for being kind. I may not be a big believer in frubals but you deserve some.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

yes as a matter of fact. i am looking for the supporting verse right now.

So if Jesus is perfect then he must be God right? If the same can be said for the Holy Spirit and the Father then they must be God too, hence the trinity right?

 

[Katzpur]

isn't it God who said " I am who Am."

LOL! Well, you got me there, Michel.

By the way,thank you Katzpur for being kind. I may not be a big believer in frubals but you deserve some.

Thank you! Frubals are a good thing, Michel. They're a great way to pay a lasting compliment!

 

[Michel07]

sigh.

Michel, its only about pride now. you are hiding from verses that show mystery and assume that your trinitaria mystery is included there.

is St Patrick biblical? yes or no, true or false? come one man...

" Their cannot be your truth and my truth, but only the truth. the question is how much do we know about it. what matters is we get a proper view point"

Michel07

Sigh indeed. What I am trying to point out is that ALL of the TRUTH is not in the Bible in the first place and that truth is Biblical. Read again John 21, 25

What I do believe is all the truth we need to know is in scripture. But to consolidate my former point which may seem as blasphemy to you... I shall defer to St. Paul....
" Therefore, Brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." 2 Thess. 2, 15.

 

[Michel07]

LOL! Well, you got me there, Michel.

Thank you! Frubals are a good thing, Michel. They're a great way to pay a lasting compliment!

My pleasure.

 

[Starfish]

Rather than put words into your mouth (I hate it when people do that to me), I'm going to ask you to explain what you believe that means. I understand it as meaning, "I look like my Father." Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus was "the express image of his [Father's] person." If this is the case, it substantiates my belief that the Father and the Son look exactly alike. The Son is in the "express image" of His Father. It's impossible to be in the image of oneself, since an image is clearly separate from the original.

Well, that makes two of us, and I certainly wouldn't want to come across as if I think I know everything there is to know. Two things I do know, though, are that (1) eternal life is to know God and Jesus Christ, whom He sent here to earth and (2) God is not the author of confusion. We may not know everything about Him, but He is far less complicated than the philosophies of men have made Him.

Oh so true! Why do Christians resist the simple answer? They have to admit it's so easy to understand and scripturally supported.
I think the reason for the resistance might be that to question the trinity, means you then have to question everything about your theology, and many aren't willing to go there. It's just easier to go with the mysteries-of-God attitude.

 

[uss_bigd]

Sigh indeed. What I am trying to point out is that ALL of the TRUTH is not in the Bible in the first place and that truth is Biblical. Read again John 21, 25

What I do believe is all the truth we need to know is in scripture. But to consolidate my former point which may seem as blasphemy to you... I shall defer to St. Paul....
" Therefore, Brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." 2 Thess. 2, 15.

tsk tsk. I feel sad my friend.

Christ's teachings are in the bible. to be rightfully called Christian we must follow the teachings of christ. you are interpreting John 21:25 incorrectly.

John 21:25

and there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen

This verse did not refer to the truth, it referred to the things that Jesus did. that his works are so majestic it will not fit in the bible. which is exprected from the son of God.

How i wish you could have meant this when you refer to the truth

1. John 1:14
   And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
2. John 17:17
   Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jesus is the truth, and he is in the bible.

" Therefore, Brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." 2 Thess. 2, 15.

Paul referred to the apostles, which included himself. not st Patrick.

 

[Michel07]

tsk tsk. I feel sad my friend.

Christ's teachings are in the bible. to be rightfully called Christian we must follow the teachings of christ. you are interpreting John 21:25 incorrectly.

John 21:25

and there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen

This verse did not refer to the truth, it referred to the things that Jesus did. that his works are so majestic it will not fit in the bible. which is exprected from the son of God.

How i wish you could have meant this when you refer to the truth

1. John 1:14
   And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
2. John 17:17
   Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jesus is the truth, and he is in the bible.





Paul referred to the apostles, which included himself. not st Patrick.

Yes indeed Jesus is in the Bible but He is more than the Bible for he is the Living God.

 

[Katzpur]

Christ's teachings are in the bible. to be rightfully called Christian we must follow the teachings of christ.

And the greatest of all Christ's teachings was what? To interpret every doctrine correctly?

you are interpreting John 21:25 incorrectly.

Whether that is the case or not, a difference in interpretation does not exclude a person from the Christian family. Jesus said (in Mark 9:40 and Luke 9:50) that "he that is not against us is for us." Do you believe that Michel is against Christ? He doesn't seem to be to me.

and there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

To me, it makes logical sense to interpret this as meaning that not everything Jesus said or did was recorded. Stop and think about what the four gospels contain. For a three-year ministry, He must have said more than is mentioned in those relatively few pages.

Jesus is the truth, and he is the bible.

Actually, Jesus isn't the Bible, but I'm suspect this was just a typo.

 

[uss_bigd]

Yes indeed Jesus is in the Bible but He is more than the Bible for he is the Living God.

That is what john 21:25.

so does St Patrick complete what was not written about jesus in the bible?

who is he anyway? he is not even biblical, and you have evaded this point from the first post.

You are accountable to your own conscience my friend.

 

[Michel07]

tsk tsk. I feel sad my friend.

Christ's teachings are in the bible. to be rightfully called Christian we must follow the teachings of christ. you are interpreting John 21:25 incorrectly.

John 21:25

and there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen

This verse did not refer to the truth, it referred to the things that Jesus did. that his works are so majestic it will not fit in the bible. which is exprected from the son of God.

How i wish you could have meant this when you refer to the truth

1. John 1:14
   And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
2. John 17:17
   Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jesus is the truth, and he is in the bible.





Paul referred to the apostles, which included himself. not st Patrick.

Are you going to have a problem with things passed down by the apostles but that are not written in the Bible?

 

[uss_bigd]

Are you going to have a problem with things passed down by the apostles but that are not written in the Bible?

There are no things past down from the apostles that are not in the bible.

1 Cor 4:6

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

It is pretty clear. do not go beyond that which is written in so that no one will puff up against one another.


look at what John said:

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand


It is clear sir, its either you accept it or reject it.

 

[Michel07]

There are no things past down from the apostles that are not in the bible.

1 Cor 4:6

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

It is pretty clear. do not go beyond that which is written in so that no one will puff up against one another.


look at what John said:

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand


It is clear sir, its either you accept it or reject it.

I'm sorry but I feel this is getting silly. I'f St. Patrick is not capable of saying any truth because he is not in the Bible then neither are you capable of speaking truth because you are not in the Bible and neither is your " prophet." Frankly you are not in a better position than Saint Patrick by your own standards.

 

[uss_bigd]

I'm sorry but I feel this is getting silly. I'f St. Patrick is not capable of saying any truth because he is not in the Bible then neither are you capable of speaking truth because you are not in the Bible and neither is your " prophet." Frankly you are not in a better position than Saint Patrick by your own standards.

I never said anything from myself, I read the words of the people that are in the bible.

Besides who is St Patrick is he greater than christ to you?

 

[uss_bigd]

This is being debated on another thread and I know that it has probably been discussed to death but...
Is it? I never really questioned it until recently. Does the bible truly say that God is "Three Persons of One Essence"? I am not questioning whether Jesus is God because I still believe that with no question.
Any verses and explanations (I would prefer that verses also contain what you get from them if that is possible) are welcome.

I hope i was able to show and defend my stance.

The trinity is not biblical.