samtonga43
Well-Known Member
YT, my telling you what I make of Ps139:8 does nor answer my question. Here it is again...
"Is hell a 'place' where God is not, in your opinion?"
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Christians: is there a hell?
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
"Is hell a 'place' where God is not, in your opinion?"
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
First of all, let me say that the term hell, properly understood from the Bible, does not mean eternal torment of the conscious living but dead. But many churches have made it seem that way. However, properly understood in context, it is not a place of eternal torment/torture.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think psalm 139 does answer it.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
***
O Lord, you have searched me and known me!
You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
you discern my thoughts from afar.
You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.
You hem me in, behind and before,
and lay your hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high; I cannot attain it.
Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.
***
Imagine two people (let’s call them Joe and Jim) outside on a beautiful, bright sunny day. Joe is standing in the sunshine and Jim is standing in shadow.
Their experience is different, although the sun is the same. Both Joe’s and Jim’s experience depend on where they are relative to the sun.
Could it be that our experience of God is different in hell than it is in heaven?
Perhaps, Instead of experiencing the fullness of God’s grace, one experiences the complete opposite, because this is what she/he has chosen.
"Now all those who die in Christ die knowing that death already has been defeated, and Sheol already has been decimated. We still wait for the Messiah, but now we wait for his second advent, not his first. This may be why the New Testament uses the terms “third heaven” and “sleep” to refer to the resting place of the Lord’s saints, rather than Sheol. The intermediate state is now no longer a place only of darkness and gloom, because the light of the world has entered it."
What Is Sheol? Exploring the Afterlife in the Old Testament
So, I ask again, YT:-
"Is hell a 'place' where God is not, in your opinion?"
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
One way to understand the nature of hell is by contrasting the colors black and gray. Below is an interesting but useful optical illusion we can use as a metaphor.
The illusion above show four small gray squares all of the same shade of medium gray, in contrast to four others shades of gray, from light gray to black. The center gray looks darkest when contrasted by the lightest outer gray, while it looks the lightest when contracted to black. This is a metaphor of how Good and Evil are sort of relative to the grayness of the social ambiance; social norms.
In a world where everyone is good, even a medium gray behavior can look black. What is not so evil; medium gray, can look very evil; darker than it appears by contrast. On the other hand, in a world that is dark and full of evil, the same medium gray behavior now looks much lighter.
The concepts of heaven and hell are designed to help us mentally build these visual illusions, by showing the relative nature of sin. In the blackness of hell, even moderately shady behavior; medium gray, can appear good by contrast. If all people were brutal and killed all strangers, if you only brutalized but spared life you would seem to be good by contrast in such a world.
Heaven is pure white, so even whites lies would seem like light gray due to the contrast. In this sense, the righteous, to not contrast as evil with heaven, can not even appear lightest gray even if socially allowable. On the other hand, hell by being so black in color, offers hope to the criminals, in that even dark gray; hold back some evil, would appear like an upgrade to black; that offers hope; appears as lighter gray.
If you look at the lawlessness in Democrat run inner cities, especially with the DA's not prosecuting crime, they have created a dark gray background so moderately shady behavior; medium gray, looks lighter or more righteous. This make it easier to excuse the swamp; ends justifies the means.
On the other hand, in very religious pockets, where people work hard to be righteous, this very light gray background, can made moderate behavior, that is not really that dark, appears darker than it really is. The level of darkness can only be know against the darkest of Hell and not the lightest of light; Heaven.
The Heaven and Hell system was part of a calibration of the mind, so one can gauge good and evil by their own extreme set points. None of us are so evil compared to Hell; true black, or good compared to Heaven; true white. We are all in the middle somewhere; shades of gray; light to medium.
The illusion above show four small gray squares all of the same shade of medium gray, in contrast to four others shades of gray, from light gray to black. The center gray looks darkest when contrasted by the lightest outer gray, while it looks the lightest when contracted to black. This is a metaphor of how Good and Evil are sort of relative to the grayness of the social ambiance; social norms.
In a world where everyone is good, even a medium gray behavior can look black. What is not so evil; medium gray, can look very evil; darker than it appears by contrast. On the other hand, in a world that is dark and full of evil, the same medium gray behavior now looks much lighter.
The concepts of heaven and hell are designed to help us mentally build these visual illusions, by showing the relative nature of sin. In the blackness of hell, even moderately shady behavior; medium gray, can appear good by contrast. If all people were brutal and killed all strangers, if you only brutalized but spared life you would seem to be good by contrast in such a world.
Heaven is pure white, so even whites lies would seem like light gray due to the contrast. In this sense, the righteous, to not contrast as evil with heaven, can not even appear lightest gray even if socially allowable. On the other hand, hell by being so black in color, offers hope to the criminals, in that even dark gray; hold back some evil, would appear like an upgrade to black; that offers hope; appears as lighter gray.
If you look at the lawlessness in Democrat run inner cities, especially with the DA's not prosecuting crime, they have created a dark gray background so moderately shady behavior; medium gray, looks lighter or more righteous. This make it easier to excuse the swamp; ends justifies the means.
On the other hand, in very religious pockets, where people work hard to be righteous, this very light gray background, can made moderate behavior, that is not really that dark, appears darker than it really is. The level of darkness can only be know against the darkest of Hell and not the lightest of light; Heaven.
The Heaven and Hell system was part of a calibration of the mind, so one can gauge good and evil by their own extreme set points. None of us are so evil compared to Hell; true black, or good compared to Heaven; true white. We are all in the middle somewhere; shades of gray; light to medium.
That's not the point. The true question is, if hell exists how will you know?
The only way you could possibly know is for God to tell His chosen people Israel then for Israel to tell you and then for you to choose to believe it or not!
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
One way to understand the nature of hell is by contrasting the colors black and gray. Below is an interesting but useful optical illusion we can use as a metaphor.
The illusion above show four small gray squares all of the same shade of medium gray, in contrast to four others shades of gray, from light gray to black. The center gray looks darkest when contrasted by the lightest outer gray, while it looks the lightest when contracted to black. This is a metaphor of how Good and Evil are sort of relative to the grayness of the social ambiance; social norms.
In a world where everyone is good, even a medium gray behavior can look black. What is not so evil; medium gray, can look very evil; darker than it appears by contrast. On the other hand, in a world that is dark and full of evil, the same medium gray behavior now looks much lighter.
The concepts of heaven and hell are designed to help us mentally build these visual illusions, by showing the relative nature of sin. In the blackness of hell, even moderately shady behavior; medium gray, can appear good by contrast. If all people were brutal and killed all strangers, if you only brutalized but spared life you would seem to be good by contrast in such a world.
Heaven is pure white, so even whites lies would seem like light gray due to the contrast. In this sense, the righteous, to not contrast as evil with heaven, can not even appear lightest gray even if socially allowable. On the other hand, hell by being so black in color, offers hope to the criminals, in that even dark gray; hold back some evil, would appear like an upgrade to black; that offers hope; appears as lighter gray.
If you look at the lawlessness in Democrat run inner cities, especially with the DA's not prosecuting crime, they have created a dark gray background so moderately shady behavior; medium gray, looks lighter or more righteous. This make it easier to excuse the swamp; ends justifies the means.
On the other hand, in very religious pockets, where people work hard to be righteous, this very light gray background, can made moderate behavior, that is not really that dark, appears darker than it really is. The level of darkness can only be know against the darkest of Hell and not the lightest of light; Heaven.
The Heaven and Hell system was part of a calibration of the mind, so one can gauge good and evil by their own extreme set points. None of us are so evil compared to Hell; true black, or good compared to Heaven; true white. We are all in the middle somewhere; shades of gray; light to medium.
An interesting analogy. Thank you.
However...you mention "very religious pockets, where people work hard to be righteous"
Surely a woman/man is righteous coram deo? In other words, when she is in a right relationship with God, when she simply receives the imputed obedience of Christ and the forgiveness of sins through faith.
IMO, no one can possibly be righteous by working hard. Christ has done it all.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
I know because the Word of God tells me so.
River Sea
Well-Known Member
Well when I died, I didn't see any evidence of hell so I am sorry I can't answer your question clearly. I did see 2 places in my journey though, I briefly saw purgatory where Earth bound spirits reside and can have contact with the living, and then I passed to an area of no return I believe was Heaven, where in this area it's impossible to have contact with Earth. However, there were 12 beautiful entities that greeted me with such overwhelming love and kindness it moved me to tears of joy. A king figure I believe was Jesus was so kind and loving too. He said it wasn't my time to be here and He had to bring me back to Earth. I wasn't judged, I received unconditional love and it was beautiful! I didn't want to leave that place but now that I'm back on Earth I'm glad I'm here for a spell. In regards to hell, perhaps it doesn't exist yet until final judgement occurs from God, I just didn't see any evidence for it now so from my experience, I couldn't find any trace for it. I know you didn't ask this but I'd thought I'd let you know that time does not exist in the supernatural world either. A blink of an eye can take a fraction of a second or billions of years to complete so you never know the concept of time unless you are obsessed looking at the living from the purgatory realm. There are millions of entities I refer to as dearly departed looking at Earth and I understand why. Some feel they have unfinished business before they can move on, some deny they died and pretend they are still alive. Others want to wait for their loved ones to join them before they move on to the light and others are angry, because they felt their life was taken away too quickly. Finally there are some that are afraid of the light, of judgement. They know the people that move to the light never come back and they are afraid of that fact. What if the light is the 2nd death and not heaven? They feel that as long as they concentrate on the living and be obsessed with life, they can exist in that condition, but in all reality. Heaven is so much better than purgatory! If you find yourself in that place, don't stay in purgatory for long, since that realm is not going to exist forever. I'm sorry for answering more than you asked for but I hope my reply helps comfort you in your religious journey! Blessings friend!
@Witches_Element
- Can you relate about feeding from light, fire burn? I understand this is spiritual food
- Here on earth I notice light would feed my spirit fire burn as I allow unconditional love light teach me
- Ok I just realized this thread is asking is there a hell
- No hell (I don't think there's a hell)
- It's about relationship and healing understanding
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samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Why would you want to get to Heaven?