Christians: Kill family who mentions other beliefs to you?

[Danmac]

This simply isn't true. Jesus never fulfilled the Levitical Laws. I don't even know how Jesus could possibly fulfilled those laws. Especially since we have no evidence that the disciples of Jesus ever stopped practicing them. There is no evidence that the disciples, and early followers, of Jesus ever considered themselves as anything else than devout Jews.

More so, the idea that Jesus could have taken on the sins of others simply is foreign to first century Judaism. More so, suffering was foreign to the idea of sacrifice.

In addition, Jesus never states anything about entering in a new covenant. His disciples certainly don't seem to be aware of this.

As for Israel ceasing to be a national theocracy, you may want to actually look into that a little more. The New Testament had nothing to do with it. By the time the New Testament was even compiled, Jerusalem was demolished and Judaism was a scattered religion. Even during the time of Jesus, Israel was not a national theocracy. It was under foreign rule.

You may want to do a bit more studies before you comment without knowledge.

 

[fallingblood]

You may want to do a bit more studies before you comment without knowledge.

Or you may want to show where my knowledge is lacking instead of making a sweeping dismissal that has no substance to it.

Simply dismissing me by questioning my knowledge is not an actual debate. It shows a lack of ability to debate.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Or you may want to show where my knowledge is lacking instead of making a sweeping dismissal that has no substance to it.

Simply dismissing me by questioning my knowledge is not an actual debate. It shows a lack of ability to debate.

Tis a fair point.

 

[weirdpuckett]

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage” (Deuteronomy 13:6-10, KJV).

Can any Christians help me understand the context of this?

Yes, This is a true representation of how God feels in His heart even today about "other gods"(He did say that He was a jealous God plus the first commandment) . This commandment was given and followed just as all the other commandments given through Moses ,the jews failed miserably at following them as we now know . . .

This covenant with the Jews was made for their own good,so they wouldn't fall into terrible consequences with God,(as the future of Israeli Kingdoms certainly did through idolotry) and you have to understand that the jews failed at following ANY of Gods law ,thus resulting in the "new covenant" where anyone willing to repent of their "lawlessness" (we know the law is still the law) -they now can through Jesus and Jesus only- so that DEATH is not the result from NOT following the law . . .now, you want to know why it is that we aren't going around killing all of these people who entice us to worship other "gods" ! Because God Himself is going judge these people in "the day of the Lord" . .Haven't you read the scriptures in their entirety? Gods law is in full effect, He is giving us time to "have a change of heart" and turn from the sin we commit and simply ask for forgiveness . . .
In other words God has made it soooo easy to not suffer the penalty for which He(God) Has shown us we are ALL deserving of which IS death . . .Jesus paid our way into heaven,and unbelievably ,our hearts are so hard and full of pride that we can't even approach Him or ask for something that costs us nothing!! I marvel at the stiff-necked stubbornness of this especially since just asking Gods forgiveness is a heck of a lot easier than actually performing all of these ordinances and statutes that we have already PROVED that we can't-He has met us way more than half-way on this.
If God wanted us to go around killing all the other lower case g "gods" worshippers, just notice how Jesus and his disciples didn't do it? They didn't go about with swords and weaponry to "put down" anyone . .and there were a lot of false god worshippers, in that day too . . .
Please understand that the scriptures slowly, ever slowly in increments, revealed more and more of the plan of God which was known by God from the beginning . .He just revealed it to us in it's proper time . . .Once Jesus was "revealed". some lights should have gone off in their heads, concerning the grace of God ,with some, this was the case, not so with others.Some Saw that Jesus was the answer to the old testament "riddles" like the passover lamb . . .The split rock in moreh, the psalms that foretold of the messiah, Isaiahs prophecy of Jesus, David being an archetype of Jesus,"Melkezadok" in Genesis,even Noahs ark is REALLY talking about Jesus(the grace of God to spare or "save"those who believe and prepare) . . . any of these ringin' a bell?
Afterall, "righteousness" is a gift imputed -not "earned" . . .

 

[Danmac]

Or you may want to show where my knowledge is lacking instead of making a sweeping dismissal that has no substance to it.

Simply dismissing me by questioning my knowledge is not an actual debate. It shows a lack of ability to debate.

Maybe that was my opening statement.

This simply isn't true. Jesus never fulfilled the Levitical Laws.

Levitical laws carried with them a symbolism of what Jesus represented.

I don't even know how Jesus could possibly fulfilled those laws.

A speculative statement. btw. Your inability to relate to Jesus fulfillment of prophecy doesn't nullify his doing so.

Especially since we have no evidence that the disciples of Jesus ever stopped practicing them.

Well I wonder why those religious leaders had them killed. You suppose it was for being good little altar boys.

There is no evidence that the disciples, and early followers, of Jesus ever considered themselves as anything else than devout Jews.

Try reading their writings.

More so, the idea that Jesus could have taken on the sins of others simply is foreign to first century Judaism. More so, suffering was foreign to the idea of sacrifice.

Those little animals didn't suffer a bit did they?

In addition, Jesus never states anything about entering in a new covenant. His disciples certainly don't seem to be aware of this.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: {although...: or, should I have continued an husband unto them?}
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:1 ¶ Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

As for Israel ceasing to be a national theocracy, you may want to actually look into that a little more.

In order to be a theocracy they would have to enforce levitical law upon every Israeli. They don't.

The New Testament had nothing to do with it. By the time the New Testament was even compiled, Jerusalem was demolished and Judaism was a scattered religion. Even during the time of Jesus, Israel was not a national theocracy. It was under foreign rule.

Which means it was under Roman rule not Israeli.

 

[fallingblood]

Maybe that was my opening statement.

If that's the case, it wasn't a very good opening statement, as it led to nothing else.

Levitical laws carried with them a symbolism of what Jesus represented.

Not at all. Jesus didn't even follow all of the laws. He was disrespectful to both his family, as well as other Jews. Not a very good symbolism there.

A speculative statement. btw. Your inability to relate to Jesus fulfillment of prophecy doesn't nullify his doing so.

I went on to explain why my statement was of such. Taking me out of context is not a very effective way to debate me.

Well I wonder why those religious leaders had them killed. You suppose it was for being good little altar boys.

Maybe it wasn't the religious leaders who had him killed. If they wanted him killed, they could have killed him their selves. They had corporeal punishment. Yet, they never killed him.

Instead, the Romans killed him. Why? Because he was a potential threat. It was for the same reason that John the Baptist was killed, or why various other religious leaders were killed. Romans had little tolerance for Jews like Jesus.

Try reading their writings.

I have, and thus my statement. Maybe you want to show me where in their writings they every state they are anything besides Jews.

Those little animals didn't suffer a bit did they?

No, they didn't. Suffering was not part of the sacrifice. If you familiarize yourself with Jewish sacrifices, you would know this. There were strict rules for the sacrifice. Suffering was not suppose to occur.

There are quick and suffer free ways to kill an animal.


As for the new covenant, Jeremiah is not in the New Testament. So it is pretty much useless in this case.

Now, before we move onto the actual Hebrew scripture, it first must be pointed out that this is not what Jesus stated, nor what his disciples stated. It was written by an unknown author who had no seeable connection to Jesus accept that he was a later follower. So it doesn't support the idea that Jesus spoke of a new covenant or that his disciples had any idea of a new covenant.

But we will quickly discuss Hebrews anyway. The prophecy is talking about Jews. It is directed to Jews. It is for a new Jewish covenant. Again, not a Christian covenant, but a covenant for the Jews.

Second, there is no suggestion of the Laws being abolished. Instead, God states that his laws will be kept.

Third, Jesus is not the Messiah, so really, it had nothing to do with him anyway. Just thought I'd throw that in.

In order to be a theocracy they would have to enforce levitical law upon every Israeli. They don't.

Again, taking my comments out of context. That is not a very honest way to debate.

Which means it was under Roman rule not Israeli.

Yes, it was under Roman rule. My argument was to show why the New Testament had nothing to do with Israel not having a national theocracy. You simply took what I said out of context, which is very dishonest.

Here is the statement, stated by Smokydot, that I was replying to:

Israel ceased to be a national theocracy with the advent of the NT, so the statutes of its governance by God no longer apply.

That is what my final comment, which you took out of context, twice, was replying to.

Again, taking my statements out of context, and then trying to debate them, is very dishonest.

 

[waitasec]

Only the Levitical laws and the statutes for governing Israel no longer apply.

so why do christians consider homosexuality a sin today, since jesus never said anything about it?

There is nothing wrong with wearing converses unless of course you are a nike salesman.

huh?
i guess god isn't very consistent