(Christians, Muslims): Why your religion?

[Unguru]

A. If Allah spoke to Muhammad in 600 AD,
B. then he referred to the Bible as we have it today.

B does not follow from A, especially if you consider the concept of Revelation to Prophets to be true and valid. If you do consider it valid, then how-in-gods-green-earth can you support the Bible when it is by-default in contradiction of this notion of Revelation?

You are wrong to even try to tell me that somehow the Gospel and Torah is not, in the viewpoint of the Quran, the revelations of Allah!

Which Gospel?

God's
Thomas'
Marks'
Luke's
John's
Peter's
Judas'
Barnabas'
Marcion's
James'
Mary's
The Ebionites'
The Hebrews'
The Nazarenes'
Apelles'
Nicodemus'
Bartholomew's
Phillips'

????

Again, an answer would be appreciated.

And again, do you mean Oral Torah (Talmud) when you say "Torah"?

Remember, because you forgot, Allah clearly say NO ONE CAN CHANGE HIS REVELATIONS!

If this is true, then if we look at your position with the Bible then there should be no Prophets after Adam (no Abraham, no Jacob, no Moses, No Jesus etc). Adam is the only Prophet but what happened to Adam's book?

Every Prophet after Adam are false-prophets!

I call this, Christian check mate!!!!!

 

[Ponder This]

Where on earth do you get a Christian Muslim?
You just made one of the biggest mumbo Jumbo verbal diareah up i ever heard.
And, yes,
One go to the religious books to find out what the religion teaches.

I first heard about them several years ago through various conversations with foreign exchange students. I was surprised and asked them to explain the matter. They said that there were a small number of people who were Christian-Muslims. I think many, but not all, of them are from Christian-Muslim marriages. We live in quite the diverse world. They certainly aren't a very vocal or mainstream religious group. There are some in the Middle East and in Turkey.

 

[SA Huguenot]

This was my exact though when I said "You've got a few to choose from there, don't assume that the Qur'an considers the Bible to be valid either because it doesn't.", because you clearly don't even know basic Islamic doctrine, not even BASIC!!

Realy?
So, why dont you show me where in the Quran does Allah say the Bible is corrupted?

 

[Unguru]

Realy?
So, why dont you show me where in the Quran does Allah say the Bible is corrupted?

This is my point, the Qur'an doesn't even acknowledge the Bible because the Bible is only a compilation of books. The Qur'an and Islam both do not even consider the Bible to be scripture in the first place. And their position is reasonable, unlike yours (Christians) and Jews.

You have no 'revelation' from God, you've only got writings of people long after supposed miraculous things happened. How you consider the Gospels or any of the Old Testament to be "scripture" is a mystery. At best they're puffed-up historical accounts of things long by, relative to the time they were written.

I'm not an Abrahamic person, I ain't apologizing for anyone. Your intellectual dishonestly knows no limits though

 

[SA Huguenot]

Like Jesus re-enacting Dionysus?

I am still waiting for this evidence

 

[loverofhumanity]

Islam as far as I know isn't very accepting of the NT

It’s the interpretations it doesn’t accept but it accepts Jesus, the virgin birth and the Holy Bible.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There aren't 40,000 sects of Christianity. That's a long-refuted myth, and the number is nowhere near that. In any case, most of these sects did not exist until the Reformation, so this should be specifically attributed to Protestantism and its emphasis on "private interpretation of Scripture," not to Christianity in itself.

Whatever, the Quran accepts past religions just not many of the interpretations.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, Islam rejects Jesus the Christ who died on the Cross and rose from the dead!
Dont come and practice Taquiah with me pal!
Wont work on someone who knows Isalmic scriptures.

You’re entitled to your opinion but if you know the Quran then you wouldn’t be making such a statement.

I’m not a Muslim but a Baha’i and I accept both the Bible and Quran comfortably and there is no contradictions between them.

Only the interpretations of men differ but the Word of God in both Holy Books compliment each other.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That makes you a hypocrite.

I am a follower of the Light not the lamp.

 

[Wasp]

It’s the interpretations it doesn’t accept but it accepts Jesus, the virgin birth and the Holy Bible.

Not the Bible.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

At what point in history was the Pentateuch first referred to as "Torah"?

Around 6th century BCE

Does this also include the ORAL TORAH? (Talmud)?

Not really. That came about with the advent of Rabbinic Judaism around the 1st century CE

What is the Torah

It is the Law and Teachings of Moses consisting of 5 books (Pentateuch): Bere****, Shemot, Vayikra, Bamidar and Devarim

If not, then it is likely referring to something else.

If it is then it is not referring to the Laws and Teaching of Moses and therefore is a counterfeit Torah. Is there any other Torah besides that of Moses?

 

[columbus]

This is one of the main questions which keeps me from deciding. I have heard convincing arguments both for and against the textual integrity of the Bible, and at this point I don't see as feasible the common Islamic position that the Bible is absolutely corrupted beyond recognition and take a much more nuanced stance.

I don't have a dog in this fight, so I kinda just skimmed a couple pages. Personally, I'm more of an agnostic deist, born and raised Catholic but unable to believe in any particular Abrahamic religion.

That said, have you investigated Bahai? From my perspective, it looks like a reformed and inclusive version of Abrahamic religion. It incorporates a great deal of the improvements in human thought through the centuries, and shed a lot of the irrational theology and primitive ethics from the olden days.

Please don't take this post as proselytizing, and good luck on journey
Tom

 

[The Reverend Bob]

This is my point, the Qur'an doesn't even acknowledge the Bible because the Bible is only a compilation of books. The Qur'an and Islam both do not even consider the Bible to be scripture in the first place. And their position is reasonable, unlike yours (Christians) and Jews.

You have no 'revelation' from God, you've only got writings of people long after supposed miraculous things happened. How you consider the Gospels or any of the Old Testament to be "scripture" is a mystery. At best they're puffed-up historical accounts of things long by, relative to the time they were written.

I'm not an Abrahamic person, I ain't apologizing for anyone. Your intellectual dishonestly knows no limits though

I don't think you understand Christianity at all

 

[Muffled]

I believe in God, and at this point, I've decided that if I were to follow a particular religion, it would either be Christianity or Islam; these two seem most likely of all the religions I've studied to be true. Yet, I'm conflicted about which one of these is true and unable to make up my mind.

So, Christians and Muslims of RF, why should I join your respective religion and not the alternative?

I believe it is so you cn have eternal life without any evil.

 

[Wasp]

I discovered the source of all the Western scientific discoveries...
The Bible

Such as?

 

[Muffled]

Islam is about submission and subjugation in contrast to Christianity which is about liberation and freedom from the works of the flesh. You have to decide on which path better suits you. If you need rules, follow Islam or Judaism, if you want liberty and freedom and don't need that many rules, follow Christ.

I believe that is a bit deceptive. Christians are in submission to God in the person of Jesus. We are free from written law because Jesus is all the law we need and the fulfillment of it.

 

[Muffled]

I don't think it's so much a question of whether or not one needs such rules as it is a question of whether they are of God. If God desires to liberate us from rules or to constrain us through them, then his command is just either way.

I believe He works both ways but His mission now is to get people into the Kingdom of God.

 

[Muffled]

Why not Judasim? It is the root of both Christianity and Islam after all.

I believe Judaism and Islam will not get a person into the Kingdom of God.

 

[Wasp]

600 years after Jesus (250 years after the Sinaiticus) Allah tells Christians to judge by the Bible they had.
Sahih International: And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed – then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

What Jesus received was revelation. What the people wrote was not. The writing may have contained some revelation with it. That's it. To begin with, the words of Jesus would be the revelation, if it wasn't for the incessant manipulating of the scripture.

And also in 630AD Allah tells the Christians to stand fast on the Bible they have, which was revealed by Allah.
Sahih International

: Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

Again, revelation, not the Bible.

And in 630AD Allah even tells Muhammad to go to the Christians if he wants to know the truth.
Sahih International: So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

Even though the words were spoken to the prophet, they were directed to the people among the Arabs who doubted and who had no knowledge of the old scriptures.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

I believe that is a bit deceptive. Christians are in submission to God in the person of Jesus. We are free from written law because Jesus is all the law we need and the fulfillment of it.

So you are going to be in complete contradiction to Galatians 4:7 ?

So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if you are a child, then you are also an heir because of what God did.

For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be subject again to the yoke of slavery. - Galatians 5:1