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Christians Only: The Book of Mormon

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Peter Stanley

Member
Its not a minor difference and you know it - if you do understand the Trinity

I am assuming that you do but it looks like you don't I suggest you look at the Christian understanding of the Trinity. You can never call your faith a Trinity in the Christian sense it would be going against your faith.
 
J

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Peter Stanley said:
Its not a minor difference and you know it - if you do understand the Trinity

I am assuming that you do but it looks like you don't I suggest you look at the Christian understanding of the Trinity. You can never call your faith a Trinity in the Christian sense it would be going against your faith.
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I have thoroughly studied both the Creedal Christian and LDS Christian views on the matter, summarized above.
 
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Peter Stanley

Member
The Trinity doctrine is a corner stone to Christian belief it cannot be changed and as I said if you understand it you cannot accept it as your theology or you would be going against your own faith
 
J

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Peter Stanley said:
The Trinity doctrine is a corner stone to Christian belief it cannot be changed and as I said if you understand it you cannot accept it as your theology or you would be going against your own faith
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The fact that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God is a cornerstone of the Christian faith.

The * how * they are varies between different Christians. For example, a modulist is still a Christian. They are very incorrect on the their belief that the Father/Son/Spirit are 1 person, but that makes them a poorly learned Christian.
 
P

Peter Stanley

Member
You cannot have 2 human bodies - in your case God the father and Jesus and call them one God and that is not what the Trinity is it does not have two human bodies.

I suppose you could have a God with two bodies certainly not as the Trinity and I am not sure if that's what you believe.
 
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J

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Peter Stanley said:
You cannot have 2 human bodies - in your case God the father and Jesus and call them one God and that is not what the Trinity is it does not have two human bodies.

I suppose you could have a God with two bodies certainly not as the Trinity and I am not sure if that's what you believe.
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The Creedal Trinity also believes that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different persons.

It is a modulist belief that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one person.
 
P

Peter Stanley

Member
Your still misunderstanding the Trinity its a hard teaching to understand and I don't want to try because I will likely mess it up too. So I leave it to the experts.
See the problem is and you can't see it for some reason is the 2 human bodies of God ask any Christian if the Trinity has 2 human bodies - not one will agree with you nor will any Christian Minister Pastor or Priest If you can get one to agree it would be a miracle.
Try as you like but you cannot Change Christian teachings and as I said its the one of corner stones of Christianity - so if you want you can call me wrong but its not true
 
J

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Peter Stanley said:
Your still misunderstanding the Trinity its a hard teaching to understand and I don't want to try because I will likely mess it up too. So I leave it to the experts.
See the problem is and you can't see it for some reason is the 2 human bodies of God ask any Christian if the Trinity has 2 human bodies - not one will agree with you nor will any Christian Minister Pastor or Priest If you can get one to agree it would be a miracle.
Try as you like but you cannot Change Christian teachings and as I said its the one of corner stones of Christianity - so if you want you can call me wrong but its not true
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I'm not remotely trying to change your or anyone else's beliefs. Neither is my relationship with Christ / my salvation depend on a human's approval.
 
J

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Peter Stanley said:
That was never the debate you can say close enough but if I agreed it comes back on me that I abandoned my faith. Not going to happen.
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You abandoned your faith? I don't think so -- you love Christ, you strive to follow Him as your Lord & Savior. You are a Christian. That doesn't require you to deny others strive to follow Christ too. Matthew 9 comes to mind here.
 
P

Peter Stanley

Member
It is kind of interesting that had Joseph Smith not had God the father with a body it likely would of been accepted through out the Christian Churches .
When the Christian Church split in the 1500 they all kept the core belief Luther proclaimed faith alone and for the Catholic Church it was faith and the sacraments which Catholics believe bring grace which is how a claim came into being that the Catholic Church has a doctrine of works it was really never an argument of Faith verses Works it was directed right at the sacraments which still gets argued today.I think everyone can agree that there should be some outward sign of your faith in how you treat the less fortunate after all your either a goat or a sheep in the parable you can't be both. Its required in the LDS.
I have a LDS Friend I don't know a better person in the world than he is he told me about his mission. We have talked at length about both our beliefs and its never been an issue. We just agreed to disagree he has his faith and I have mine. I do believe the LDS has a positive effect on some people LDS are some of the nicest people in the world that I have met. But its just not what I believe.
 
J

Jane.Doe

Active Member
Peter Stanley said:
I have a LDS Friend I don't know a better person in the world than he is he told me about his mission. We have talked at length about both our beliefs and its never been an issue. We just agreed to disagree he has his faith and I have mine. I do believe the LDS has a positive effect on some people LDS are some of the nicest people in the world that I have met. But its just not what I believe.
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*thumbs up*
My best friend / husband is a generic Christian and I cherish his faith / the positive impact is has so much.

My other good friends are Baptist, Calvary Chapel, and non-denominational.
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
Peter Stanley said:
It is kind of interesting that had Joseph Smith not had God the father with a body it likely would of been accepted through out the Christian Churches .
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Replacing the Bible as flawed with a new set of scriptures, polygammy, (warren Jeff's I mean Joseph Smith pedophile founder) following church leaders as prophets, masonic temple ceremonies, funny underwear, everyone would be fine with that?
 
F

Firelight

Inactive member
Peter Stanley said:
Your still misunderstanding the Trinity its a hard teaching to understand and I don't want to try because I will likely mess it up too. So I leave it to the experts.
See the problem is and you can't see it for some reason is the 2 human bodies of God ask any Christian if the Trinity has 2 human bodies - not one will agree with you nor will any Christian Minister Pastor or Priest If you can get one to agree it would be a miracle.
Try as you like but you cannot Change Christian teachings and as I said its the one of corner stones of Christianity - so if you want you can call me wrong but its not true
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Who officially came up with the “Trinity?” Who defined it? Who explained it?

Was it Jesus Christ? No. Was it his teaching? No.

Was it any of the three persons of the Godhead? No.

It was a council of men— humans, not God— who assumed the authority to come up with the Trinity, define it, and explain it, about 1700 years ago. Their definition is a very very generic one and their explanation is difficult.

The explanation and meaning of the Trinity has been debated and argued for the past 1700 years. There are many differing explanations today, in 2021, amongst Christians. There isn’t one single explanation that applies to all Christians or all churches.

Jesus Christ defines who is Christian. Christianity wouldn’t exist without Him. If you believe he is Savior, then you are a Christian.

There is NO authority on earth who decides the rules for Christianity or for Christian churches. There is no book of requirements. There is no official way to excommunicate a church or a person from Christianity. Anyone who says that a certain church or person isn’t Christian is speaking with ZERO authority.
 
Watchmen

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jane.Doe said:
LDS Christians are not Creedal Christians. That's been stated many times.

Both LDS Christians & Creedal Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 persons in 1 God. The views differ in *how* 3 are believed to be 1: LDS Christians through unity, Creedal Christians through a shared substance.

Both believe that God the Spirit is a person of spirit, both believe that God the Son has a divine spirit now residing in glorified physical body. The Bible itself does not specify about God the Father, with LDS Christians believing He's like the Son and Creedal Christians like the Spirit.
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The “how” makes all the difference in the world.
 
Watchmen

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Firelight said:
Who officially came up with the “Trinity?” Who defined it? Who explained it?

Was it Jesus Christ? No. Was it his teaching? No.

Was it any of the three persons of the Godhead? No.

It was a council of men— humans, not God— who assumed the authority to come up with the Trinity, define it, and explain it, about 1700 years ago. Their definition is a very very generic one and their explanation is difficult.

The explanation and meaning of the Trinity has been debated and argued for the past 1700 years. There are many differing explanations today, in 2021, amongst Christians. There isn’t one single explanation that applies to all Christians or all churches.

Jesus Christ defines who is Christian. Christianity wouldn’t exist without Him. If you believe he is Savior, then you are a Christian.

There is NO authority on earth who decides the rules for Christianity or for Christian churches. There is no book of requirements. There is no official way to excommunicate a church or a person from Christianity. Anyone who says that a certain church or person isn’t Christian is speaking with ZERO authority.
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A lot of incorrect statements here. If you’re going to go that route then it equally applies to Mormon prophets. They’re just “men.”

And who would you trust to get it right? The men who lived close in time to Jesus or those who came almost two thousand years later and created their own religion?
 
P

Peter Stanley

Member
idea said:
Replacing the Bible as flawed with a new set of scriptures, polygammy, (warren Jeff's I mean Joseph Smith pedophile founder) following church leaders as prophets, masonic temple ceremonies, funny underwear, everyone would be fine with that?
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Yes I agree a 100% and more than that but I was only debating the Trinity versus the Godhead I may of gone way off track sometimes I didn't want to but it came out you can see by my posts if someone wanted to debate I intended to hold my ground .As for answering questions to a person who clearly does not understand or want to look at the material and wants me to give them all the answers I ignore. Jane Doe knew what she was talking about and what I was saying and knows the material. It was a stalemate at the end and we have moved on I hope.
 
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