Christians: The Nicene Creed?

[paradox]

I see here, that there is some truth but, at the same time, not necessarily completely scriptural.

Just because one resists evil doesn't mean that he is possessed. He could be influenced or even oppressed.

So let's look at scripture:

Acts 13: 9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him. 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

Certainly this doesn't line up with your position.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This doesn't fit your position either as he resisted them.

HOWEVER:

You are right also:


Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, againstpowers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

But people many time are used or influenced by these spirits.

Jesus also resisted evil works:

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

But, as you said, sometime we should repay evil with good.

I see, the issue here is contradictions in the bible, there are verses that support your claims and there are verses that support mine, but contradictions are not the answer, contradictory verses are to be solved with verses that unravel or explain contradictions, which would take time, ex.:

Romans 12:21

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Jesus was a judge, it was his mission to judge. but we are not judges and Jesus told us not to judge.

Acts 13: 9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him. 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

This is about Elymas sorcerer who tried to turn the proconsul from the faith, but it's Paul's (or of any apostle or Jesus or bishop, shepard's) duty to protect faithful from such.
there is a whole host of verses from all around the bible about sorcerers, mediums, witches, diviners and similar:
1 Samuel 28:3
Zechariah 10:2
Malachi 3:5
Galatians 3:1
Galatians 5:19-20
1 Chronicles 10:13
2 Chronicles 33:6
Revelation 21:8
Leviticus 20:6
Leviticus 19:31

 

[Kenny]

I see, the issue here is contradictions in the bible, there are verses that support your claims and there are verses that support mine, but contradictions are not the answer, contradictory verses are to be solved with verses that unravel or explain contradictions, which would take time, ex.:

Agreed. That is why I said, or I think I said, it would depend on the situation. So I affirmed your point but not 100% since it would depend on the circumstance.

Jesus was a judge, it was his mission to judge. but we are not judges and Jesus told us not to judge.

Again, I don't disagree but disagree.

We are not to judge the heart (as you said). But we are suppose to judge the actions. If someone lies, we don't judge the heart and call him a liar. But we do judge the action and say "that is a lie".

Paul judged on various occasions and Jesus intimated that we can\ (just not judge the heart of the person lest you be judged)

Luke 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

Certainly, we should judge ourselves too.

This is about Elymas sorcerer who tried to turn the proconsul from the faith, but it's Paul's (or of any apostle or Jesus or bishop, shepard's) duty to protect faithful from such.
there is a whole host of verses from all around the bible about sorcerers, mediums, witches, diviners and similar:
1 Samuel 28:3
Zechariah 10:2
Malachi 3:5
Galatians 3:1
Galatians 5:19-20
1 Chronicles 10:13
2 Chronicles 33:6
Revelation 21:8
Leviticus 20:6
Leviticus 19:31

Yes... these are all serving the enemy and God doesn't like it

 

[pearl]

Jesus was a judge, it was his mission to judge. but we are not judges and Jesus told us not to judge.

As Jesus' followers we ought to serve more and judge less.

 

[pearl]

What is patently clear is that theology, whether Protestant or Catholic is not considered to have a voice in biblical discussions, it is out of our comfort zone, the thought being both alien and alienating. This allows the Bible to stagnate, existing in a museum, its voice stifled. The Protestant theologian Harvey Cox presents an interesting analogy in his book 'The Secular City'. In this story a traveling circus in Denmark caught fire. The manger thereupon sent the clown. who was already dressed and made up for the performance, into the neighboring village to fetch help, especially as there was a danger that the fire would spread across the fields of dry stubble and engulf the village itself.

The clown hurried into the village and requested the inhabitants to come as quickly as possible to the blazing circus and help to put the fire out. But the villagers too the clown's shots simply for an excellent piece of advertising, meant to attract as many people as possible to the performance; they applauded the clown and laughed till they cried.

The clown felt more like weeping than laughing, he tried in vain to get people to be serious, to make it clear to them that this was no stunt, that he was not pretending but was in bitter earnest, that there really was a fire. His supplications only increased the laughter; people thought he was playing his part splendidly-until finally the fire did engulf the village' it was too late for help, and both circus and village were burned to the ground.

Cox cites this story as an analogy of the theologian's position today and sees the theologian as the clown who cannot make people really listen to his message.

excerpt from Ratzinger's commentary on the Creed

 

[TreeOfLife]

I believe Jesus was neither created or begotten. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. These two individuals existed together form the beginning of time. Later, the Word took on human form under the name of Jesus. So the physical body of Jesus may have been created in the body of Mary but the personality that .ived that body was the personality of the Word which was neither begotten nor made because it existed alongside the Father form the beginning.

John 1.1 in the beginning. Rev 1.1. Jesus' own words state that rev was given by him to John. Rev 3.14 Jesus again stated that he wes the first creation of God. Again in Isaiah 45.11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker

And the word was with God. Asked ref above

And the word was God. See mark 28.18

Question. Why do we as the creation tell God what he can do and what he is .etc

Why can't God have a son and that son be heir to his throne

Why did Jesus lie to us in john 20.17.
Please look at the history of man. Jesus was killed by the religious power in charge. Fast forward 300yrs

Arius was branded the first heretic because of rev 3.14. Then for the next 1300yrs Christians that wanted to read the Bible in there own language were killed and burned at the stake etc.

Then look at the history of the Canon of the book of revelations. There has never been any issue with rev 1.1 or rev 3.14.

So history teaches that Jesus spoke truth and Christ is diety and John 1.1 is still true

 

[Truth in love]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

I’ve never been a fan of the creeds. I’m on board with Christ being the Savior and baptism, but essences and other items not taught by the prophets and apostles I’ll take a pass.

 

[TreeOfLife]

I also am not a fan of creeds. Especially taken in the historic context if this one.
The wolves were already in the flock during the apostolic age. So with that we are to assume that some how man got it back together 260yrs later. Plus the out and out putting man's word above the word in tje bibe that man states he believes in. Then to drive the point home for the next 1100 to 1200 yrs you got killed as a heretic if you didn't tow the line. Wow@@@ the same thing that happened to our Savior in is time.
Do you see a parallel here.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Next if you believe the scriptures (the actual words). Let's start with rom 3.4. Let God be true and every man a liar.. Then onto James 1.13 God can't be tempted with evil. Now on to matt 4.1-4. Jesus was tempted by satan.

So as I stated. Believe the written word above mans tradition!!!!!

If Jesus started as deity He can NOT be tempted. Yet He was. So either Satan has deceived the world. And man for 2000yrs still doesn't know how to read.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Now on to semi logic

Can we as the created tell the creator what He can do.
How easy would it have been for deity to come down and raise himself??

But for a created being. Much harder. Now in John 12 49.50 Jesus state he only says what he is told to say. And in john 10.17-18
And Jesus was commanded to raise himself.

How clear do the word of the text need to be before Christianity wakes up.
And again. The trinity is John 14.20

 

[sojourner]

1. God from God,
Jesus is G-d. But not G-d the father

2. begotten, not made; Rev 3:14. Jesus himself states he is the first creation.

With those 2 things comes the main problems
1. Is the Bible true
2. If true then 1 & 2 above are not.
3. Is Jesus a liar. Angain that is something I can not fathom. (Rom 3:4)
4. If the Bible is not true then absolute truth does not exist. Again unfathomable

John 1: “ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life, and the life was the light of all people… And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son…”

Rev. 3:14 says: “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the origin of God’s creation…” Jesus states that he is the origin of creation.

These two passages (if the Bible is true) state that 1 is true. And you have misstated #2; both passages allude to the position that Jesus is God, and that Jesus states that he is the origin of creation. The birth narrative and Philippians 2 make clear that Jesus was begotten by the Father.

Your other mistake is in stating that there is some absolute truth. Truth is relative, and the Bible is not infallible. We’re the Bible infallible, the earth would be disc-shaped, as pictured in Genesis.

 

[sojourner]

Next if you believe the scriptures (the actual words). Let's start with rom 3.4. Let God be true and every man a liar.. Then onto James 1.13 God can't be tempted with evil. Now on to matt 4.1-4. Jesus was tempted by satan.

So as I stated. Believe the written word above mans tradition!!!!!

If Jesus started as deity He can NOT be tempted. Yet He was. So either Satan has deceived the world. And man for 2000yrs still doesn't know how to read.

You’re conveniently forgetting that, per the doctrine of the Trinity, Jesus is also fully human, and “is tempted in every way as we are.”

 

[sojourner]

Next if you believe the scriptures (the actual words). Let's start with rom 3.4. Let God be true and every man a liar.. Then onto James 1.13 God can't be tempted with evil. Now on to matt 4.1-4. Jesus was tempted by satan.

So as I stated. Believe the written word above mans tradition!!!!!

If Jesus started as deity He can NOT be tempted. Yet He was. So either Satan has deceived the world. And man for 2000yrs still doesn't know how to read.

Except that, during the years of the proto-church, the NT didn’t exist. The “written word” is part of humanity’s tradition. You’re ascribing attributes to the texts that are clearly mistaken.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Are you kidding. Read the history of the book of revelations. Rev 1.1 3.14 have never been modified and yourbtheory fails on historical, written word, common sense and you make God in your own image cause that is what you were taught.

 

[rational experiences]

One species is a human.

One species diverse by nation real one human.

Moses theme a mother human.
A father human. One human.

Then he says three pairs of two of each human children.

So after life bio sacrificed you realise a one human is assessing biologies attack by themes.

Consciousness to think says a human. My consciousness human.

How many thoughts do you think...three or billions or millions of terms?

Not just one.

Why body mind disassociation was real. Consciousness changed when heavens Christ mass body was sacrificed by just human men in technology.

 

[syo]

That's not the creed. It has mistakes.

 

[Rival]

That's not the creed. It has mistakes.

What is wrong with it?

 

[syo]

What is wrong with it?

I think the original one is in Wikipedia, let me check.

Yup. The original one is shorter.

 

[Soapy]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

The first set of lines tells the truth:

“We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,“
​

Much of the rest is not valid as truth.

For instance, how is the world created THROUGH Jesus Christ when the first lines say that God the Father created all things. Is Jesus Christ then just a tool?

The first lines are absolutely clear that God, the Father, CREATED ALL THINGS.

Therefore it can only be an attempt as an afterthought to cover the false belief by claiming that ALL THINGS were created THROUGH Jesus Christ. And, of course, a Son is a creation of a Father…. But the creed said that Jesus was not created!!

Further, it is so added because since the claim is that there are three who are the one God, it must be that ALL THREE CREATED ALL THINGS…, which creates its own anomaly since, again, ALL THINGS are now said to have been created - NOT BY Jesus - but THROUGH Jesus…. (Does not work, does it!!)

And in further addition, the third claimed person of the trinity God…. DID NOT CREATED ANYTHING!

How can that be if they are ALL THE SAME ONE GOD - and GOD created ALL THINGS?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Here is the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Question: Do you either wholly accept it, partially accept it, or reject it all together?

And how important is it to you?

It's important to me as it's a snappy and concise summary of my Christian faith and I like that I share it with a great many other people

I think I entirely accept it

But I used to have a very slight issue where it says Jesus Christ is "the only Son of God"

Because I believe that God directly created other deities too, apart from Jesus Christ

But I now realise that by "son" it means "human male" - I believe that only one human male was ever "begotten" by God and that that person was Jesus Christ. But I believe God created other divine offspring such as The Holy Spirit

For instance, the Holy Spirit was created by God The Father, but is not a "son" of God as it is not a "human male" so cannot be called a "son" of anyone! And I don't believe the other deities who are not parts of the Godhead are human either although they may be humanoid.

So at the end of the day this is not an issue and I accept The Nicene Creed in its entirety

I believe in it all. The creed is very important as it's the summary of Christian belief, it is the faith that ties all Christians together.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe in it all. The creed is very important as it's the summary of Christian belief, it is the faith that ties all Christians together.

Not sure about that. I consider myself a Christian because I believe in Jesus. But I find several things in the creed that I have a problem believing. So, no, the creed does not tie all Christians together.