Christians: They were banned!

[sojourner]

Jesus didn't talk about a lot of things we might consider important, but they are still elsewhere in the Bible. I don't pick out Jesus's words and say the things in them are more important than the rest of the Bible. I think everything in the Bible is important, no matter who said it. And I think we should follow all of the Bible, not just the things Jesus said.

I listen to Christian radio. I hear many revered Christian "leaders" bash homosexuals over and over and over -- many times in a one-hour period. Every single day. Jesus didn't open his mouth about homosexuality...why should we, his Body on earth, open ours so loudly?

You see, your statement, "what we might consider important" is very revealing. It might be important to you...my point is that it doesn't appear to have been important to Jesus -- and isn't his opinion the one we should take upon ourselves?

 

[lunamoth]

"Praise awaits you, O God, in Zion; to you our vows will be fulfilled. O you who hear prayer, to you all men will come." (Psalm 65:1-2)

"Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make by bed in the depths, you are there." (Psalm 139:7-8)

"The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. The Lord is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made. All you have made will praise you, O Lord." (Psalm 145:8-10)

"On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food of all peoples, a banquet of aged wine -- the best of meats and finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death for ever. The Sovereign Lord will wipe away tears from all faces; he will remove the discrace of he people from all the earth." (Is. 25:6-8)

"No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." (Jer. 31:34)

"I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man -- the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath." (Hos. 11:9)

"Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost." (Matt. 18:14)

"All mankind will see God's salvation." (Lk. 3:6)

"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?" (Lk. 15:4)

"The Son of Man came to seek and save what was lost." (Lk. 19:10)

"God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (Jn. 3:17)

"When I am lifted up, I will draw all men to myself." (Jn. 12:32)

"[Christ] must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets." (Acts 3:21)

"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:23-24)

"I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything in all of creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39)

:clap :clap :clap

Shall I go on? All will be brought in.

You know, not all homosexuals engage in sodomy...

I don't think the morality of homosexuality is clear in scripture. I think it's a cultural issue...not a moral issue. I think that's the responsible way to interpret what's written there. I don't think these people thought of themselves as engaging in sin.

I agree. When I read Paul's epistles where he condemns immorality I see him attempting to build a community in his culture and time. Community building is great and has it's place, but we do not need to confuse this with the eternal Kingdom of God.

lunamoth

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

if thats what you choose to believe. i have a 50 50 way split on who i would back up because i do not like intolerance and im not to fond of homosexuality. im really not sure what to say about it

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

though i do understand the hardships of being persecuted for your sexual orientation...

 

[sojourner]

if thats what you choose to believe. i have a 50 50 way split on who i would back up because i do not like intolerance and im not to fond of homosexuality. im really not sure what to say about it

Here again, we are confronted with our likes and dislikes, our wills, our comfort level.

Do you see how that confuses the issue? It's not about what we're comfortable with -- it's about what God wills for us. But, I know you're religious views are a little different...maybe you don't accept the "God's will" thing...I don't know.

 

[Booko]

if thats what you choose to believe. i have a 50 50 way split on who i would back up because i do not like intolerance and im not to fond of homosexuality. im really not sure what to say about it

Yeah, but lots of things are condemned by the Bible. Adultery, dishonesty, greed and avarice, etc etc.

Why is it that some people (not you,just generally) want to single out homosexuality as if it's the worst sin ever created? It doesn't even show up in the Top Ten List, for goodness sake.

Why is it that so many people think they have to pay attention to what others are up to in the bedroom? Perhaps they should worry about the health of their own intimate relationships and leave others alone.

Sojourner is right -- there's a lot of time devoted to homosexuality on the part of so-called "leaders."

Sex sex sex...that's all they ever think about... <--Monty Python reference alert

What's even more strange is how often those so-called leaders get caught with their own pants decidedly down.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, but lots of things are condemned by the Bible. Adultery, dishonesty, greed and avarice, etc etc.

Why is it that some people (not you,just generally) want to single out homosexuality as if it's the worst sin ever created? It doesn't even show up in the Top Ten List, for goodness sake.

Why is it that so many people think they have to pay attention to what others are up to in the bedroom? Perhaps they should worry about the health of their own intimate relationships and leave others alone.

Sojourner is right -- there's a lot of time devoted to homosexuality on the part of so-called "leaders."

Sex sex sex...that's all they ever think about... <--Monty Python reference alert

What's even more strange is how often those so-called leaders get caught with their own pants decidedly down.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

Many might disagree with me, but religion has historically been (and can easily become) quite sexually charged. we studied a unit on sexuality in the parish in seminary. This may be the reason for the preponderance of obsession with homosexuality in pietistic circles.

 

[Booko]

Many might disagree with me, but religion has historically been (and can easily become) quite sexually charged. we studied a unit on sexuality in the parish in seminary. This may be the reason for the preponderance of obsession with homosexuality in pietistic circles.

I'm not sure it isn't just part of the human condition that gets expressed religiously sometimes.

It isn't just Christian pietistic circles that get obsessed with sexuality.

 

[roli]

It is an atrocity. And it's prejudice. One that is no different than racism. Hypocracy is rampant in organized religion. Which is why I don't affiliate myself with them.

Does anyone know for fact that the individuals who were removed from the church were open to be taught the truth of God and follow His commands,did they really want to obey and know how to be rightous in God's eyes or were they there to make a demonstartion,what was there motive,no one really knows.was in to divide the congregaton,cause dissention,create a political arena for their unfair treatment.and exploitation of gays. Maybe the people were in panic,maybe the Pastor made a wrong choice,who really knows,let's not assume.
If they were not given the chance to hear the word of God,they were denied the right to come and worship and seek after truth then maybe the church was wrong.
We are on the outside looking in to this scenario.
Again all the church bashers jump on the band wagon and jump to conclusion and assume the worst,maybe they had an underlying agenda or motive,could that be.
Are there some who are doing that in society today ,absolutely.
I mean listen if you as the head of your home allowed a stranger in and he represented everything contrary to the principals,rules,morals and standards of the house and it was a possible he appeared a threat of influence to the occupants. Would you watch that person carefully of course giving the benefit of the doubt and or become ignorant to the possiabilities of their potential in destroying the moral fibre and principals that that house was built upon, therfore effecting the occupants.
Please understand what the role of Pastor of a church is ,a shepherd ,who watches the flock and protects against,those who are sheep in wolves clothing there to devour the flock.

 

[Baerly]

I believe I mentioned this in another thread (I can't remember which it was). But a few weeks ago there was a gay couple who was banned from their church on the basis of the fact that they were gay. All I know about it is that somehow the pastor found out about it and forced them from the church. And if that weren't enough the Council of Bishops (the highest rank of the Methodist Church) is backing up the pastor's decision.

This decision just flew in the face of the "Open Hearts; Open Minds; Open doors" policy of the Methodist Church. And the ones who broke the policy are the ones who came up with it! Hypocrites!! I cannot believe they would just walk away from the very teachings the Methodists hold so dear! One being that everyone is invited to come to Christ and God, not just the ones who happen to fit certain criteria! :verymad:

What are your thoughts on this situation? As you probably have realized now I think it is an atrocity!

Hi ,how are you? The bible talks about delivering certain people who continually sin to Satan so that the spirit may be saved (1Cor.5:5-7).Part of the reason this is done is to make all the church aware that God does not condone sin (Heb.10:26-31). We can read of church discipline happening in (Acts 5:1-11) (Rom 16:17) (2Thess.3:6,14). The bible says, and great fear came on all the church and upon as many as heard these things (Acts 5:11).

We are told each person who is involved in sin must repent to be in a right relationship with God (Luke 13:3) (Acts 3:19) (Acts 8:22) (1John 1:6-9).

John the baptizer refused to baptize certain people till they met certain requirements. They were told to bring back fruits of repentance (Mt.3:7). It is obvious that Christians are to be walking according to the word of God or by the same rule (Phil.3:16-19). The bible says to be ye holy for I am holy (1Peter 1:16). We must do some changing according to (Col.3). We are to go through a transformation from a life of sin to trying our best not to live a life of sin (Rom.12:1,2) (2Cor.3:18).When we do change our ways it is possible the people we used to run with will try to cause us problems (1Peter 4:4).

When we read (Romans 1:26-32) and (Lev.20:13) we learn that God does not condone (Homosexuality) such actions. The word of God calls such an abomination.In other words God hates it. The church is to be the light of the world. It is by our actions that we hope to lead the world to Christ. We are to let our light shine before men, that they may see our good works, and glorify God (Mt.5:16) (Titus 2:14).

Some may claim that Jesus never talked about such things in the new testament,but let me remind you that (John 14:26 ; 16:13) tells us that the Holy Spirit was going to bring back to the remembrance all the things Jesus said to the apostles.So what ever is wrote in the N.T. is what Jesus told the apostles while he was on the earth. Notice also what the apostle Paul said,The things I write to you are the commandments of the Lord (1Cor.14:37). This means that whatever ALL the apostles wrote also were the commandments of the Lord.

I hope these scriptures will help some to see the bible principles which we must live by to be followers of the Christ (1Thess.4:1) (Phil.2:5).- in love Baerly

 

[sojourner]

Hi ,how are you? The bible talks about delivering certain people who continually sin to Satan so that the spirit may be saved (1Cor.5:5-7).Part of the reason this is done is to make all the church aware that God does not condone sin (Heb.10:26-31). We can read of church discipline happening in (Acts 5:1-11) (Rom 16:17) (2Thess.3:6,14). The bible says, and great fear came on all the church and upon as many as heard these things (Acts 5:11).

We are told each person who is involved in sin must repent to be in a right relationship with God (Luke 13:3) (Acts 3:19) (Acts 8:22) (1John 1:6-9).

John the baptizer refused to baptize certain people till they met certain requirements. They were told to bring back fruits of repentance (Mt.3:7). It is obvious that Christians are to be walking according to the word of God or by the same rule (Phil.3:16-19). The bible says to be ye holy for I am holy (1Peter 1:16). We must do some changing according to (Col.3). We are to go through a transformation from a life of sin to trying our best not to live a life of sin (Rom.12:1,2) (2Cor.3:18).When we do change our ways it is possible the people we used to run with will try to cause us problems (1Peter 4:4).

When we read (Romans 1:26-32) and (Lev.20:13) we learn that God does not condone (Homosexuality) such actions. The word of God calls such an abomination.In other words God hates it. The church is to be the light of the world. It is by our actions that we hope to lead the world to Christ. We are to let our light shine before men, that they may see our good works, and glorify God (Mt.5:16) (Titus 2:14).

Some may claim that Jesus never talked about such things in the new testament,but let me remind you that (John 14:26 ; 16:13) tells us that the Holy Spirit was going to bring back to the remembrance all the things Jesus said to the apostles.So what ever is wrote in the N.T. is what Jesus told the apostles while he was on the earth. Notice also what the apostle Paul said,The things I write to you are the commandments of the Lord (1Cor.14:37). This means that whatever ALL the apostles wrote also were the commandments of the Lord.

I hope these scriptures will help some to see the bible principles which we must live by to be followers of the Christ (1Thess.4:1) (Phil.2:5).- in love Baerly

Taking stuff out of context doesn't work. Here, Paul is concerned with orderly worship, not the question of the morality of homosexual behavior. Most certainly Paul is not asserting that everything he (and, by extension, the other apostles) wrote were "commandments of the Lord." Fact is, Jesus does not mention homosexuality once. Read the gospels again.

In your first paragraph, you make a reference to "continual sinning." The question before us does not assume that homosexual behavior is a sin. In fact, we are debating that very thing. Your scriptural references are not compelling here.

 

[Baerly]

Sojourner,the fact remains,The apostle Paul said the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord (1Cor.14:37). (John 14:26 ; 16:13) tells us that the Holy Spirit brought back to (ALL the apostles) memories all things whatsoever things the Lord (Jesus) said to them while he was on the earth with them. So what they wrote down were the actual words of Jesus. They were not the thoughts of the apostles themselves,but the thoughts of the Lord Jesus according to (2Peter 1:20,21).They taught those very commandments to all the churches (1Cor.4:17).

According to (2Peter 2:20-22) we loose our souls or walk outside of Gods grace by turning from the commandments of the Lord.

According to you, to look for what Jesus said, I must go to Matthew,Mark,Luke,or John.

According to the apostle Paul I just need to read the New Testament will of the Lord.

The New teatament will of Jesus begins at Matthew and ends with Revelation.All this is the Will (or covenant) of Jesus.

As far as Homosexuality being a sin,the bible calls it an abomination (Lev.20:13). That is what the word of God calls it. The bible also said it was something that was worthy of death (Rom.1:32). The bible also calls it vile affections or something which is against nature (Rom.1:26). The bible also calls it unseemly or an error (Rom.1:27). The bible says those which do those things did so because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge . Because of this attitude of the people, God gave them over to a reprobate mind,to do these things which are not convenient (or proper) (Rom.1:28) (2Thess.2:10-12). It sounds like to me that God did call it sin.The word abomination means HATE .

Scriptures say, The foolish shall not stand in thy sight,thou hatest all workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5).

Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way (Psalm 119:104).

We are reminded of how God thinks of these things by the folowing verses, (Rom.15:4) and (1Cor.10:11,12). God has not changed.

in love Baerly

 

[Sonic247]

I know it's not the official position of gays in the media, but most gays if they are really honest with you will admit they don't think it's right. Many gays were abused by older gay people or sexually melested in some other way and desire affection but with a twisted veiw. But as far as it being sinful the Bible clearly condemns it. The important thing to remember though is that gay people do get saved, they need Jesus just like any sinner. Oh by the way Baerly my name is Jeff, how are you?

 

[Sonic247]

Actually my teacher was just talking today about a gay person he knew who got saved, of course the Holy Spirit started to convict him of it but of course our flesh has a good memory. He became a soul winner and told others the good knews that Jesus saves! But he couldn't (and didn't want to) work in certain ministries, such as with groups of men or young boys. Because the flesh is still sinful Christian or not, he just died recently I think that is why he brought him up. Well there are no more temptations for him now.

 

[Baerly]

I know it's not the official position of gays in the media, but most gays if they are really honest with you will admit they don't think it's right. Many gays were abused by older gay people or sexually melested in some other way and desire affection but with a twisted veiw. But as far as it being sinful the Bible clearly condemns it. The important thing to remember though is that gay people do get saved, they need Jesus just like any sinner. Oh by the way Baerly my name is Jeff, how are you?

Hi Jeff, your correct about the bible saying homosexuality is a sin.

Man tends to look at this and say homosexuality is worse than running a stop sign. God does no such thing. All sin is bad to God. To him there is no little sin and big sin. It will all separate us from our God (Isa.59:1,2). The apostle Paul gave his consent to kill gospel preachers (1Tim.1:13). I ask many who feel guilty about all they done while in a life of crime,have you killed any preachers? Because that is basically what the apostle Paul done ignorantly (1Tim.1:13),before he knew the true gospel. Not only that but Paul thoght he was doing the will of God while he was hurting and killing Christains.That all changed when he the Lord sent him to hear a gospel sermon from Ananius and became a Christian in (Acts 22:16).

I will support anyone who gives up the gay lifestyle,just as I would support anyone who comes out of any other sin (1John 3:4).The blood of Jesus will cover any and all sin,but first the bible requires the sinner to repent (Luke 13:3) (Acts 3:19) (Eph.1:7) (Heb.5:8,9).
in love Baerly

 

[Sonic247]

So is the Lord's church an official name of a denomination, or are you just saying you're a Christian and therefor part of the Lord's Church.

 

[sojourner]

Sojourner,the fact remains,The apostle Paul said the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord (1Cor.14:37). (John 14:26 ; 16:13) tells us that the Holy Spirit brought back to (ALL the apostles) memories all things whatsoever things the Lord (Jesus) said to them while he was on the earth with them. So what they wrote down were the actual words of Jesus. They were not the thoughts of the apostles themselves,but the thoughts of the Lord Jesus according to (2Peter 1:20,21).They taught those very commandments to all the churches (1Cor.4:17).

According to (2Peter 2:20-22) we loose our souls or walk outside of Gods grace by turning from the commandments of the Lord.

According to you, to look for what Jesus said, I must go to Matthew,Mark,Luke,or John.

According to the apostle Paul I just need to read the New Testament will of the Lord.

The New teatament will of Jesus begins at Matthew and ends with Revelation.All this is the Will (or covenant) of Jesus.

As far as Homosexuality being a sin,the bible calls it an abomination (Lev.20:13). That is what the word of God calls it. The bible also said it was something that was worthy of death (Rom.1:32). The bible also calls it vile affections or something which is against nature (Rom.1:26). The bible also calls it unseemly or an error (Rom.1:27). The bible says those which do those things did so because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge . Because of this attitude of the people, God gave them over to a reprobate mind,to do these things which are not convenient (or proper) (Rom.1:28) (2Thess.2:10-12). It sounds like to me that God did call it sin.The word abomination means HATE .

Scriptures say, The foolish shall not stand in thy sight,thou hatest all workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5).

Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way (Psalm 119:104).

We are reminded of how God thinks of these things by the folowing verses, (Rom.15:4) and (1Cor.10:11,12). God has not changed.

in love Baerly

The fact remains, I told my wife the other day, "I like making love with you." That doesn't mean that the quote is valid in other times and places, or with other people or circumstances.

Taking stuff out of context doesn't work. Here, Paul is concerned with orderly worship, not the question of the morality of homosexual behavior. Most certainly Paul is not asserting that everything he (and, by extension, the other apostles) wrote were "commandments of the Lord." Fact is, Jesus does not mention homosexuality once. Read the gospels again.

Scholastically speaking, this is naivete.

Leviticus also says that wearing clothing of mixed cloth is an abomination. Leviticus also lays out some very specific commandments concerning the preparation and eating of food. Do you follow these laws, as well?

The Bible also talks about taking slaves. The Bible also talks about taking multiple wives. Do you also advocate the keeping of slaves, or multiple wives?

You're right. God has not changed. God is always merciful and good, slow to anger and of great kindness. God hnolds back God's hand and does not punish as we deserve. God turns aside from God's anger and does not condemn us. God lifts up the lowly and fills the hungry with good things.

 

[sojourner]

I know it's not the official position of gays in the media, but most gays if they are really honest with you will admit they don't think it's right. Many gays were abused by older gay people or sexually melested in some other way and desire affection but with a twisted veiw. But as far as it being sinful the Bible clearly condemns it. The important thing to remember though is that gay people do get saved, they need Jesus just like any sinner. Oh by the way Baerly my name is Jeff, how are you?

How many homosexuals do you know? I know quite a few, and none of them think it's wrong. Most of them are in committed relationships (though some are not). To say that "Most gays...will admit they don't think it's right" is an unfounded statement. Some homosexuals, who are involved in evangelical Christianity, find a juxtaposition that they find difficult to reconcile. Most of the Christian homosexuals that I'm aware of, though, have already reconciled their sexuality and find themselves to be right with God, if not with their neighbors. They're just trying to get along in a world that mostly hates and despises them.

We all know what the slogan, "Open hearts, open minds, open doors" means. I don't understand why this particular congregation isn't living up to that.

Many people (Biblical scholars among them) aren't as clear that "the Bible" condemns homosexuality. yes, there are a few passages that make condemnational statements, but the Bible as a whole message? I don't think so.

 

[sojourner]

Actually my teacher was just talking today about a gay person he knew who got saved, of course the Holy Spirit started to convict him of it but of course our flesh has a good memory. He became a soul winner and told others the good knews that Jesus saves! But he couldn't (and didn't want to) work in certain ministries, such as with groups of men or young boys. Because the flesh is still sinful Christian or not, he just died recently I think that is why he brought him up. Well there are no more temptations for him now.

I know of a homosexual man who was recently consecrated a bishop in the Episcopal Church. He does the Lord's work within the bounds of his office -- preaching the gospel, pastoring his flock, etc -- , and handles his homosexuality well, being in a committed relationship. When his election was ratified, the clergy delegates from our diocese supported his election unanimously. What's your point?

 

[Baerly]

So is the Lord's church an official name of a denomination, or are you just saying you're a Christian and therefor part of the Lord's Church.

Hi there. I am a part of the Lords Church. It is not a denomination. The Lords church began in 33 A.D. on the day of Pentecost. It came in power according to (Luke 24:49) and (Acts 2:1-4). It is the only church I can find in the new testament (Eph.1:22,23). Jesus is the head of this church (Col.1:18). This church does things according to the bible or New Testament will of Jesus. Division or denominations are contrary to the bible (N.T.) (1Cor.1:10) (Phil 3:16-18). I am a member of the church of Christ (Romans 16:16).

I hope that gives you enough to think about for abit. If you have any more questions just ask. I will try to find the answere within the bible (1Peter 4:11).

in love Baerly