He definitely said God is a spirit. John 4:24. So which is it? YHWH is not God? Or Jesus is not flesh? (Was not flesh).
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Christians..."Trinity"?
- Thread starter captainbryce
- Start date
He definitely said God is a spirit. John 4:24. So which is it? YHWH is not God? Or Jesus is not flesh? (Was not flesh).
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well, actually, the indefinite article, "a", is optional. I believe that "God is spirit" is a more accurate way of putting it. But we have to come to an understanding of what "spirit" is in order to make much more headway. What do you believe the word "spririt" means? The word, "pneuma," translated in John 4:24 as "spirit" is translated in another passage (I'd have to look it up to give you the exact chapter and verse) as "life." So, "pneuma" can accurately be translated as either "spirit" or as "life." And John 4:24 can be accurately translated as "God is life." I don't believe that the word "spirit" defines God, but that it describes one of His attributes, that attribute being the fact that He is "life" itself, He is the source of all "life," He is not an inanimate being but a living being. I don't see the fact that He is "spirit" as meaning that He is not also much, much more than that.
I believe that YHWH, or "Jehovah" is the name by which Jesus was referred to during the time prior to His birth in Bethlehem. So, I see Him as the God of the Old Testament. I believe that when YHWH or Jehovah is spoken of in the Old Testament, the reference is to the pre-mortal Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus' Father to be someone else entirely. Typically, I would refer to Him as "God the Father" or as "Elohim" (although I do realize that Elohim is generally not considered to be a proper name). So, in answer to your last question, "YHWH" is God, but not God the Father. "YHWH" is Jesus Christ. Recognizing Him as such is pretty much the only way you can maintain consistency throughout the entire Bible as to who is being spoken of. Otherwise, there are too many contradictions.
I believe that He definitely was flesh, from the time of His birth forward. In other words, He is flesh today -- flesh, but not mortal. He is immortal, perfect and celestialized. That, however, does not preclude the fact that He is also spirit. In other words, He is life. He is a living, cognizant being and not an inanimate object.
Where does his flesh reside?
I imagine for a lot of people getting old in the flesh is disgusting. Also, even for young people, and especially very young people, the flesh can be disgusting. I propose "the disgusting thing" is flesh and the holy place is heaven. I have never for one tenth of one second ever imagined that the place God resides is a physical place. But now people, in their imagination, are putting a physical thing (flesh) in a spiritual place.
"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Mark 13:14
I agree with you spirit means life
I imagine for a lot of people getting old in the flesh is disgusting. Also, even for young people, and especially very young people, the flesh can be disgusting. I propose "the disgusting thing" is flesh and the holy place is heaven. I have never for one tenth of one second ever imagined that the place God resides is a physical place. But now people, in their imagination, are putting a physical thing (flesh) in a spiritual place.
"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Mark 13:14
I agree with you spirit means life
Our bodies aren't disgusting. God created them and called them "very good", didn't He?
1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
Our bodies are sanctified temples of God. How can we call them disgusting? "the flesh" refers to our sinful nature and carnal passions, not the body itself.
Really? Have you ever worked in a nursing home? Ever cleaned up after a sick baby? Ever had diarrhea? I have.
When someone says the flesh of Jesus is in heaven does it mean his perfect nature and chasteness and not his body itself?
I've had INCREDIBLY painful diarrhea, and I've also puked 14 times within 12 hours overnight due to a funky flu bug that I suspect might have darn near killed me had I not gone and gotten a vaccine for that particular bug the next morning.
Sure, our bodies' natural functions aren't the most pleasant things ever. But our bodies in and of themselves are not repugnant to God, especially not if the Holy Spirit Himself deems it fit and right to sanctify our bodies as a temple and to dwell within us.
When Paul speaks of "the flesh", especially as opposed to "the spirit," it's there that he's talking of bodily and sinful passions as opposed to the body itself. The flesh of Jesus refers to His body. The same word can take on different meanings within different contexts. I really shouldn't have to explain this to you.
I think you have not answered the question. Is the fleshly body of Christ residing in the spiritual place?
It should be.
Yes. Elijah was taken bodily into Heaven. Why can't Christ ascend bodily into Heaven?
InChrist
Free4ever
According to the scriptures resurrected bodies are no longer corruptible, disgusting, or affected by sin, but are raised incorruptible and in a glorified state.
How does the Bible describe the glorified bodies we will possess in Heaven?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you mean what I think you mean, the answer is "in Heaven, on the right hand of God."
I've got to admit that I've never considered the bodies of flesh and bones God gave us to be "disgusting." Do you consider the flesh of a newborn baby to be disgusting, or just the flesh of an older person? Honestly, if I could give my mother a big hug right now, I'd do it in a minute. She died a few years ago at the age of 96, and I never found her flesh to be "disgusting."
Really? That's interesting. Jesus Christ had a body of "flesh and bones" when He appeared to His Apostles after His resurrection. Forty days later, they saw Him ascend into Heaven, still and a person with flesh and bones. When do you think He got rid of them? He also said that when He returns to Earth, it will be in the same form in which He left it. Apparently, at some point along the way, He's going to pick up that "disgusting" body of flesh and bones again. When you do think that will be? And do you think that anyone will find what they see to be "disgusting"?
Well, it's nice to know we agree on at least one thing.
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The angels that visited Abraham also had bodies of flesh. That's how the story goes. We do not know he had a physical form the day he ascended. It seems the only scriptural evidence that he had a physical body is Luke 24:39. Is that correct? I am too careful to be able to draw conclusions about the nature of Christ from one scripture. Do you have any more, please?
If he did have a physical body that day with Thomas I imagine he shed it the opposite way he made the fish and the bread.
captainbryce
Active Member
1 Corinthians 15:40
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory. 42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
Philippians 3:21
He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.
What will we look like in Heaven?
To summarize, we are not told exactly what we will look like in the next life, what age we will appear to be, or if we will look thin or fat. But, while many believe we will bear some resemblance to what we look like now, we do know that in whatever ways our appearance or health has been altered as a result of sin (whether because of overeating or not eating right, hereditary malformations, injuries, aging, etc.), these traits will not be carried over into our appearance in the next life. More importantly, the sin nature, inherited from Adam (Romans 5:12) will no longer be with us, for we will be made after the holiness of Christ (1 John 3:2).
I believe that when Jesus first appeared to the disciples after his resurrection, they did not recognize him. I chalk this up to the fact that he had a more "perfect" body after he was resurrected than before he died. They only identified him through the scars on his hands, which I suspect he left there intentionally to prove that he was who he said.
Just like someone else said "body" does not equal "flesh". It means our personality will not be scattered to the four winds. Heavenly people are spirit bodies not flesh bodies. I am countering the notion that Christ was raised in his man's body. Christ is a spirit like his Father is A Spirit. Like father like son.
It is obvious a faithful person in Christ must give up something. I believe it is solidness I might give up.
It is obvious a faithful person in Christ must give up something. I believe it is solidness I might give up.
Jesus' tomb was EMPTY. He did raise in His human body. His human body was glorified, but it was indeed His human body.
How do you know his human body was not dematerialized?
Because the body in which He was raised had the wounds of the Cross, the very same wounds. The Apostles and the women rejoiced when they saw that His tomb was empty. To say that Jesus "dematerialized" His human body is to say that He left His humanity to rot in the grave. Do you see the issue with this?