Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?

[oldbadger]

Old Testament is only for the ancient Israelites - if you would read closely the introduction on:
Exodus 20:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

And God spoke all these words:

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
View attachment 16455

Sir @oldbadger did God brought you out of Egypt? Did God brought you out of slavery? Definitely not.

Second - God already introduced a New Covenant as he mentioned this in:

Jeremiah 31:31-32 New International Version (NIV)

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

God said to the prophet Jeremiah, who wrote it - I will make a new covenant and It will not be like the covenant - because they broke my covenant If Moses was the mediator of the old covenant who is the mediator of the new covenant?

Hebrews 9:15 New International Version (NIV)

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Since Christ is the mediator of the new covenant what happens to the old covenant?

Hebrews 8:13 New International Version (NIV)

By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

So among the ten commandments - what is obsolete? Just one the Sabbath - Matthew 12:1-8

What else are obsolete? Eating pigs, cat fish, crabs, shrimps, snakes - Acts 10:10-16 Acts 11:4-10

View attachment 16456

What are things not allowed to eat? Food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals
Acts 15:20 Acts 15:29 Acts 21:25

View attachment 16459
View attachment 16458

Council of Jerusalem? Must be about circumcision? Well that is settled by apostle James the head of church administration of the 1st century church of Christ. Circumcision was declared optional and we could read this in:

Acts 15:1-20 New International Version (NIV)

Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

“‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’—
things known from long ago.
“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

Sir Flores! I'm slightly ahead of you, I think.
Old Covenant repealed, except for 9 of the ten commandments, plus two from Jesus, so you have 11 laws for your guidance ?
New Covenant is every word spoken by Jesus, plus every word written in the NT, the Divine word of Your God, given by ordained persons and some prophets.
I already have four prophets and a lot of Christian Laws.

So, from now on, if a Christian wants to quote law from the OT apart from those 9, they are misguided..... true?

But every single word writ large in the NT is LAW! True?

 

[RESOLUTION]

Really?
There are 3000+ varying Creeds, Denominations and Churches, and your version is THE version, correct?
And you don't know the exact law for Christians..... do you.??

In the words of Christ himself... "

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


True Christians the true worshippers worship God in Spirit and truth.
There is the true Christian now tell me why you don't understand that?

...and not under the law.....!!!
What you do not understand, is that if you walked out into most western countries' public places and started chanting that rubbish..... you could possibly get arrested for incitement!
If you did this in many Mid-East or Eastern countries you could possibly get executed!

King James Bible
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

Not under the law is not the same as not obeying the law. They killed the Prophets that God sent did not make them any less sent by God. As my post have been clear though Christians not under the law saved by Grace they uphold the law because sin is sin. Hence Christ did not do away with the law or teachings of the Prophets, he summed them up into two commandments love God and love your neighbour. So really you last paragraphs have proved pointless and fruitless because even basic knowledge of the bible seems to evade yourself.

I need to tell you something about true Christians..... They uphold the laws in their own countries. But ! am interested in 'CHRISTIAN LAWS'.
For instance, I would like to know if it is lawful for Christian Prirsts and Bishops to be female. The Church of England says that it is. That's a Christian Church, but is that Church Right? ................For instance.

Now...... do you know the Christian laws..... or not?

It is very clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Let me explain.

There were 10 commandments given to the Israelites. There were many teachings of the Prophets.
Those teachings sum up into two commandments. Love God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself.
It would be illogical for any question such as yours to have been asked of a Christian. Because your lack of knowledge is shown to be the reasonwhy you ask illogical questions regarding the facts of Christianity.

 

[oldbadger]

Oh please what utter pap, Paul most likely was married, most Biblical scholars believe he was or had been. You apparently have never read his references re homosexuality I suggest you do so before you make ignorant statements.

Ummm..... don't think so.
He ranted on far too much.!

 

[oldbadger]

In the words of Christ himself... "

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.


True Christians the true worshippers worship God in Spirit and truth.
There is the true Christian now tell me why you don't understand that?

I'll understand better, if you would tell me which Church, or Denomination, or Creed... you follow?
Please be patient with a slow member.

Not under the law is not the same as not obeying the law. They killed the Prophets that God sent did not make them any less sent by God. As my post have been clear though Christians not under the law saved by Grace they uphold the law because sin is sin. Hence Christ did not do away with the law or teachings of the Prophets, he summed them up into two commandments love God and love your neighbour. So really you last paragraphs have proved pointless and fruitless because even basic knowledge of the bible seems to evade yourself.

And the NT laws seem to have evaded you, which is what I want to know about.... in full.
You are short by quite a few, it seems.

It is very clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Let me explain.

Why do you think I asked?

There were 10 commandments given to the Israelites. There were many teachings of the Prophets.
Those teachings sum up into two commandments. Love God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself.
It would be illogical for any question such as yours to have been asked of a Christian. Because your lack of knowledge is shown to be the reasonwhy you ask illogical questions regarding the facts of Christianity.

My turn......... I don't think you know your own laws.
I am asking because I did not know, so no need for your tone.
But there are better teachers than you, it seems, because I now have many many laws, NT laws, writ large by the Christian Prophets, ordained by your God.
And so far you've only mentioned 11.

 

[shmogie]

Sir Flores! I'm slightly ahead of you, I think.
Old Covenant repealed, except for 9 of the ten commandments, plus two from Jesus, so you have 11 laws for your guidance ?
New Covenant is every word spoken by Jesus, plus every word written in the NT, the Divine word of Your God, given by ordained persons and some prophets.
I already have four prophets and a lot of Christian Laws.

So, from now on, if a Christian wants to quote law from the OT apart from those 9, they are misguided..... true?

But every single word writ large in the NT is LAW! True?

Y

Ummm..... don't think so.
He ranted on far too much.!

He didn't rant, every letter he wrote is a logical and spiritual exposition of the framework and basics of Christianity. Christians who quote from the Torah are not misguided, they are showing what God required under the first covenant. It is, after all, the same God who determined that the first covenant had been fulfilled. Christians are to live and believe the NT.

 

[viole]

The ceremonial and sacrificial parts were dispensed with because Christ came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it. He said that the whole law was summed up in just two.....

Matthew 22:35-40
"And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."

Jesus also reaffirmed God's standards for marriage and the moral consequences of sexual immorality. (Matthew 5:27-28; Matthew 19:3-9)

Was Moses paid on the amount of commandments he brought back from Sinai?

You seem to indicate that 2 are more than sufficient.

Ciao

- viole

 

[oldbadger]

Y

Fair enough.

He didn't rant, every letter he wrote is a logical and spiritual exposition of the framework and basics of Christianity.

Well, since Paul is the central figure in Christianity you would have to believe the above.

Christians who quote from the Torah are not misguided, they are showing what God required under the first covenant.

Now why would they need to do that? It is old covenant. It is not for them.
Only the New ciovenant can count for Christians seeking their laws. But the 9 commandments can come to the NT, I'#ve got that.
So.... No...... the OT 613 are not for you.

It is, after all, the same God who determined that the first covenant had been fulfilled. Christians are to live and believe the NT.

Those laws were for a small truibe of Israeluites and your covenant is for the World...... see? I have been attending to the posts from Christians on this thread.

Christians cannot use OT law in an NT World.
However, you are required to subject yourself to NT law, and I have been most surprised to discover that many many laws exist, because every word of the NT is your God's Divine instruction, delivered by your God's ordained prophets, such as Paul, Cephas, Silas and Judas.

But you don't seem to be strong on NT law..... so far.
I think I'm way ahead of you by now... honestly.

 

[oldbadger]

Was Moses paid on the amount of commandments he brought back from Sinai?

You seem to indicate that 2 are more than sufficient.

Ciao

- viole

The above sent to another.
I think that the Christians who have postred so far must be in difficulties. They have dumped all the OT laws to ride with the New Covenant, but so far only about 11 laws have surfaced for them, the 9 commandments remaining plus love neighbours plus love God ..... AND plus do unto other as self..... = 12!

They are in for a shock.
Apparently there are many hundreds of NT laws which have to be obeyed, each one written by an author in the NT, and each author recognised by Christians as ordained to write the words of God.

I have the list. Oh boy! It really deserves a new thread because this one is outdated already. I've got what I came for.

 

[shmogie]

Fair enough.


Well, since Paul is the central figure in Christianity you would have to believe the above.


Now why would they need to do that? It is old covenant. It is not for them.
Only the New ciovenant can count for Christians seeking their laws. But the 9 commandments can come to the NT, I'#ve got that.
So.... No...... the OT 613 are not for you.


Those laws were for a small truibe of Israeluites and your covenant is for the World...... see? I have been attending to the posts from Christians on this thread.

Christians cannot use OT law in an NT World.
However, you are required to subject yourself to NT law, and I have been most surprised to discover that many many laws exist, because every word of the NT is your God's Divine instruction, delivered by your God's ordained prophets, such as Paul, Cephas, Silas and Judas.

But you don't seem to be strong on NT law..... so far.
I think I'm way ahead of you by now... honestly.

 

[shmogie]

LOL !!! You are ahead of me, wow ! I guess my ordination was based upon something other than knowledge and living the correct life. We will add another factor that I don't expect you to understand, but it is a factor nevertheless. Christ said the entire law hung Love God and love your neighbor as you do yourself. If you read the OT you will learn that Abraham was righteous not by laws, none existed, but by faith. Israel coming out of Egypt was right with God, by faith, there was no law till Sinai. Faith brings for the Christian the leading of the Holy Spirit, who guides in how to interact with others re loving them. I could do everything right by the NT standards, but if my attitude or reason for doing so are wrong, then it counts for nothing. Lying is a sin, nevertheless Oscar Shindler lied over and over again to protect Jews under his charge from the nazi's. He was led by the Spirit to do what was right, regardless of the law. Christians are not under law but under Grace, ( unmerited favor) and being so, the Spirit may lead in a direction outside the guidelines of the NT "law". Faith saves a Christian, not keeping any rules, The rules are kept by the power of the Spirit because of salvation by faith, not to gain salvation. in general the rules apply, but in loving your neighbor the Spirit may lead in a different direction.

 

[oldbadger]

LOL !!! You are ahead of me, wow !

Well, you've had 6 pages to guide me with regard to Christian Laws of the New Covenant, having discarded all but 9 of the Old Covenant, and you have got nowhere; whilst massive lists of Christian laws have been discovered during this time.

I guess my ordination was based upon something other than knowledge and living the correct life.

Ordination by God, or a Church, or a seminary? Ordination by whose authority?

We will add another factor that I don't expect you to understand, but it is a factor nevertheless. Christ said the entire law hung Love God and love your neighbor as you do yourself.

Yeshua BarYosef clearly said that he did not intend to alter the laws at all. He just wanted to lead a mission on behalf of Jewish working folks for a return of the old laws, customs and ways... discarded by a fat, greedy, careless, hellenised, quisling priesthood.
You keep telling me what I fail in, but you have not shown me any help or clear idea of Christian laws, the Christian Canon, or anything tgo do with Christianity.

If you read the OT you will learn that Abraham was righteous not by laws, none existed, but by faith. Israel coming out of Egypt was right with God, by faith, there was no law till Sinai. Faith brings for the Christian the leading of the Holy Spirit, who guides in how to interact with others re loving them. I could do everything right by the NT standards, but if my attitude or reason for doing so are wrong, then it counts for nothing.

Now why would an ordained priest want me to focus on the writings of a fulfilled Old Covenant when you could point me to this New Covenant?

Lying is a sin, nevertheless Oscar Shindler lied over and over again to protect Jews under his charge from the nazi's. He was led by the Spirit to do what was right, regardless of the law.

Oh please....!
The total extent of that law is a one liner in Colossians 3:9!!
Paul ranted on about sexuality hysterically.... why didn't you pick an example from that, or theft, or robbery, or rape? Oh.... sorry, there is no Christian NT law about rape, is there? Or can you show me where?

Christians are not under law but under Grace, ( unmerited favor) and being so, the Spirit may lead in a direction outside the guidelines of the NT "law". Faith saves a Christian, not keeping any rules, The rules are kept by the power of the Spirit because of salvation by faith, not to gain salvation. in general the rules apply, but in loving your neighbor the Spirit may lead in a different direction.

Absolute drivvle......
Why have you not told me that Christians are COMMANDED to keep civil laws? (ROMANS 13:1)

I don't think that you know this subjrect atr all.
What are you ordained as?

 

[oldbadger]

It's amazing what can be learned in a day or two.
In past debates some Christians have 'jumped' in and out of the Old Testament laws as suited their debate, one minute (post) quoting from, say, Leviticus, and next minute declaring that another law no longer applies because of 'The New Covenant'.
I wanted to learn a little bit more about Christian laws. This thread has tended to guide me away from 'The Law' towards the basic tenet of 'right-thinking, right-spirit, right actions', or something close to that.
But elsewhere on the old www other Christians have approached 'Christian law' differently. I have learned that 'every word written' in the New Testament, like the Old Testament, is the Divine word of God, written down by ordained persons and prophets for the guidance and instruction of Christian believers, and every word counts. I was then shown how verses are clearly guidances, rules, laws and commands. Many many laws.
And in addition to this, Paul's mention in Romans that followers must keep the civil laws extends a command to keep to civil laws wherever a Christian is...... that extends out to many hundreds of laws.
And the Old Covenant is repealed........ finish!
I'm sure that Chtristians could adjust every sentence written here, but I do feel that I have advanced to some degree, and that it has been worthwhile, so far.
Peace.

 

[idea]

....I have learned that 'every word written' in the New Testament, like the Old Testament, is the Divine word of God, written down by ordained persons and prophets for the guidance and instruction of Christian believers, and every word counts. ....

The Bible is just a book - it has been changed quite a few times, there are a lot of books missing out of it... there are some good ideas in it and experiences, but you cannot trust it word for word. You'll have to get your own personal revelation if you want to hear anything straight from God.


evidence of the swiss - cheese nature of the Bible - straight from the Bible!

The so-called lost books of the Bible are those documents that are mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they were considered authentic and valuable but that are not found in the Bible today. Sometimes called missing scripture, they consist of at least the following: book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14); book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18); book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41); book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29); prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29); visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22); book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15); book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34); sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19); an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9); possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3); an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16); and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14). To these rather clear references to inspired writings other than our current Bible may be added another list that has allusions to writings that may or may not be contained within our present text but may perhaps be known by a different title; for example, the book of the covenant (Ex. 24:7), which may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus; the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10:25); the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26:22).

lots of stuff missing, incomplete, altered...

 

[oldbadger]

The Bible is just a book - it has been changed quite a few times, there are a lot of books missing out of it... there are some good ideas in it and experiences, but you cannot trust it word for word. You'll have to get your own personal revelation if you want to hear anything straight from God.

evidence of the swiss - cheese nature of the Bible - straight from the Bible!

lots of stuff missing, incomplete, altered...

Fair enough, but there's loads of Christians who don't agree with you.

.... so...... to take their Creed, and debate from their belief, is probably best for me, because the more relaxed Christians might be easier to debate with, but the Fundamental Christians....... Wow!

 

[idea]

Fair enough, but there's loads of Christians who don't agree with you.

.... so...... to take their Creed, and debate from their belief, is probably best for me, because the more relaxed Christians might be easier to debate with, but the Fundamental Christians....... Wow!

I wonder what percentage are fundamnetalists?

 

[MJFlores]

Sir Flores! I'm slightly ahead of you, I think.
Old Covenant repealed, except for 9 of the ten commandments, plus two from Jesus, so you have 11 laws for your guidance ?
New Covenant is every word spoken by Jesus, plus every word written in the NT, the Divine word of Your God, given by ordained persons and some prophets.
I already have four prophets and a lot of Christian Laws.

So, from now on, if a Christian wants to quote law from the OT apart from those 9, they are misguided..... true?

But every single word writ large in the NT is LAW! True?

Sire, @oldbadger let us not jump to conclusions that the OT should not be quoted or used. Let us lift what the Lord Jesus Christ said:

Matthew 13:52 New International Version (NIV)

He said to them, “Therefore every teacher of the law who has become a disciple in the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

Hence the old treasures (OT) are still needed - because it contains the knowledge about who God is, the prophecies about things to come and about Jesus, the historical accounts of the people of the book from Adam to Malachi. It is still valid as it is. The commandments however are for the ancient Israelites. Brits are not Israelites as Israelis are not too.

It is not only 2 from Jesus - there are much more than that. New commands like:

John 10:9 New International Version (NIV)
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

These are one of the things to do.

In the Old Testament, adultery has to be consummated to be an adultery - and the participants have to be put to death by stoning.

Leviticus 20:10 New International Version (NIV)

“‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

That was the rule of that day.

But when the Son came, it was about mercy, forgiveness and leaving the life of sin.

John 8:1-11 New International Version (NIV)

but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

It does not mean, it is ok now for sexual sins - no. Actually, Jesus upped the ante on adultery.

Matthew 5:28 New International Version (NIV)

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[shmogie]

Well, you've had 6 pages to guide me with regard to Christian Laws of the New Covenant, having discarded all but 9 of the Old Covenant, and you have got nowhere; whilst massive lists of Christian laws have been discovered during this time.


Ordination by God, or a Church, or a seminary? Ordination by whose authority?


Yeshua BarYosef clearly said that he did not intend to alter the laws at all. He just wanted to lead a mission on behalf of Jewish working folks for a return of the old laws, customs and ways... discarded by a fat, greedy, careless, hellenised, quisling priesthood.
You keep telling me what I fail in, but you have not shown me any help or clear idea of Christian laws, the Christian Canon, or anything tgo do with Christianity.


Now why would an ordained priest want me to focus on the writings of a fulfilled Old Covenant when you could point me to this New Covenant?


Oh please....!
The total extent of that law is a one liner in Colossians 3:9!!
Paul ranted on about sexuality hysterically.... why didn't you pick an example from that, or theft, or robbery, or rape? Oh.... sorry, there is no Christian NT law about rape, is there? Or can you show me where?




I don't think that you know this subjrect atr all.
What are you ordained as?

I will assume your becoming somewhat irrational and hysterical because you are grappling with something you cant grasp, First, those lists and lists of law's you found in the NT, Why don;t you share some of those ? You seem to be obsessed by laws, equating law keeping with being right with God. Christ said " you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free" you don't grasp the freedom of the Gospel. The key is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Do you commit rape if this is what drives your behavior, no. Do you commit rape if your life is being led by the Holy Spirit ? No. A Christian is righteous by faith, not by keeping a succession of laws. Please share with me the rantings of Paul about sexuality, I am sure I have read the NT cover to cover at least a hundred times, and haven't come across any of that. Romans 13 addresses a Christians responsibility within society, it is a given that as citizens we would keep the civil law. My understanding was that you were interested in moral/religious law, so forgive me for not mentioning these verses about civil law. No, I am not a priest, I was ordained in a well known Protestant denomination. I must admit, I am not sure what you are trying to achieve . I have explained the new covenant, I think quite clearly. Christ said he came to fulfill the Torah law, fulfill means complete. So, other than learning about laws, what do you want ? To argue ? To say you know more than me about my faith ? Go ahead, it doesn't bother me. So, what is your point ?

 

[oldbadger]

I wonder what percentage are fundamnetalists?

I suppose that might depend upon country and region?
I wonder what % are Social Christians?

 

[oldbadger]

Sire, @oldbadger let us not jump to conclusions that the OT should not be quoted or used. Let us lift what the Lord Jesus Christ said:

Matthew 13:52 New International Version (NIV)

He said to them, “Therefore every teacher of the law who has become a disciple in the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”

Hence the old treasures (OT) are still needed - because it contains the knowledge about who God is, the prophecies about things to come and about Jesus,

Yes, historical interrest etc is fine.
But you are not going to use or refer to the Old Testament Laws, are you?
If so, which ones?

'Christians, which Old Testament Laws to obey, and which to ignore?'

 

[oldbadger]

I will assume your becoming somewhat irrational and hysterical because you are grappling with something you cant grasp,

Irrational and hysterical...... ummm.....
Your lesson for this morning:-
(1 PETER 5:5) (COLOSSIANS 3:12) (LUKE 14:8)
(JAMES 4:10) (1 PETER 5:6)
I have been taught very well this last 24 hours.

First, those lists and lists of law's you found in the NT, Why don;t you share some of those ? You seem to be obsessed by laws, equating law keeping with being right with God. Christ said " you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free" you don't grasp the freedom of the Gospel.

You are an ordained priest. Why would you need a tyro to show you anything from the New Testament?
Grannies can such eggs better than kids?

[QUOTE The key is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Do you commit rape if this is what drives your behavior, no. Do you commit rape if your life is being led by the Holy Spirit ? No. A Christian is righteous by faith, not by keeping a succession of laws. [/QUOTE]

The reason why I seek to discover your God's guidance and Commands to Christians is because some like to pick up the law and drop it as they please.
Jesus did not tell you that you can do as you please. His first mission was to have the laws reinstated because so many of them protected the peasant classes, most of Israel. There was not a middle class, by the way.

Please share with me the rantings of Paul about sexuality, I am sure I have read the NT cover to cover at least a hundred times, and haven't come across any of that. Romans 13 addresses a Christians responsibility within society, it is a given that as citizens we would keep the civil law.

That's good. You have written it down. Christians to keep the civil laws. Excellent.

My understanding was that you were interested in moral/religious law, so forgive me for not mentioning these verses about civil law.

This thread is about the OT laws. The OT laws are mostly about Civil and Criminal law, with a % devoted to sacrifice, about 96 of them.

No, I am not a priest, I was ordained in a well known Protestant denomination.

God Ordains people to be his teacher, representative, a priest.
You boasted that you are ordained. Now you tell me that you are not a priest, ergo you do not take services, funerals etc. ?
I did not believe that you are an ordained priest. Christian priests don't say things like you do. And they can teach. And they are humbled by their stations.

! must admit, I am not sure what you are trying to achieve . I have explained the new covenant, I think quite clearly.

How many marks out of 10 do you think you deserve for your teaching ability?

Christ said he came to fulfill the Torah law, fulfill means complete. So, other than learning about laws, what do you want ? To argue ? To say you know more than me about my faith ? Go ahead, it doesn't bother me. So, what is your point ?

Jesus came to restore the old laws, which I guess does mean fulfill them, but in the way that you believe. He wanted justice for his own. Your faith is based on Paul's (and others) interpretations about that.

My point has been to discover what OT laws Christians still use and rely upon. Some Christians will still quote OT law., some won't, and some will cherry pick their way through them as suiys their purpose.
I have set out to discover more about that, and also to find out about NT guidance and Commands. Evrery NT word is sent by your God, and so cannot be questioned, I assume?

I've learned a lot and I need to thank all those Christians that have patiently and kindly advised me about my search in this matter.