Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Yes, and sudden meteor showers, earthquakes of unimaginable magnitude too.
It's as if I were at the latest release of a Marvel Movie, or something....
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Christians..... you are not the saviors of the world.
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
Yes, and sudden meteor showers, earthquakes of unimaginable magnitude too.
It's as if I were at the latest release of a Marvel Movie, or something....
Cooky
Veteran Member
Catholics don't preach by using words. So I guess that would be okay by me?
ecco
Veteran Member
My version is a little different.
Don't worry. Just after your last breath, just after you are dead, you will see ... wait for it ... nothing.
No Pearly Gates
No St Peter
No Light
No Aunt Mary
No Sister Sally
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
And you will realize it was all just a myth.
No Pearly Gates
No St Peter
No Light
No Aunt Mary
No Sister Sally
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
And you will realize it was all just a myth.
ecco
Veteran Member
I'll wait 'til I can get it at RedBox.Yes, and sudden meteor showers, earthquakes of unimaginable magnitude too.
It's as if I were at the latest release of a Marvel Movie, or something....
Cooky
Veteran Member
Do you want me to believe that or something?
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
Far too many atheists are obnoxious, ego-centric keyboard warriors who desparately want to win arguments and/or make Christians feel bad. Sort of like the flip side of fundamentalist evangelical street preachers. Apparently he's one of them.
In order for this guy to have been evangelizing, he would have had to at least known the language of the people he was supposedly evangelizing to, or have a friend with him who did. All those who evangelized to the Romans knew Greek or Latin. St. Patrick knew Irish. Sts. Cyril and Methodius knew Proto-Slavic. The Russians learned Aleutian and the other native languages of Siberia and Alaska. Ulfilas knew Gothic. The Latin missionaries to the Germanic kingdoms learned Old High German and Old Norse. Ethiopia, Armenia and Georgia were also evangelized by people who were familiar with the native cultures and languages. The missionaries to all these peoples also had some kind of support or mandate from the churches which sent them. And at least they knew how to say "hi" in the language of the land they were being sent to and converted at least a few people before being martyred. This guy had exactly none of that. So no, he wasn't "evangelizing" anyone. He was heading straight into certain death without a chance of winning a soul. And God was not with him in his supposed quest.
Or do you suppose this tribe would have changed their minds as he kept walking towards them, stopped shooting at him, adopted him and spent years teaching him their language and culture like this was David Cameron's Avatar? Any man with a brain stem would at least turn around and leave after getting shot with an arrow, realizing that today just isn't the day. None of the martyrs kept walking at the people they were trying to evangelize immediately after getting shot. They left, regrouped, and found another place among the people that was going to be less hostile.
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Someone like me, not deranged and displaying even a semblance of a moral code that is anything other than repugnant refuse? You're right, no one like that would value your disgusting views that renunciation of heinous murder and a desire for world communion is dangerous and uncompassionate .
First, there is reason I asked Shiranui and not you, your worthless drivel could have remained an assumption with no ill effect. Second, I can't imagine how sad and pathetic a human existence is that doesn't understand something greater than its own life.
That line of reasoning doesn't quite work. No one outside the island knows their language. Someone has to be the first to make peaceful contact with a linguistic exchange.
Now should he have attempted a slow engagement, with gift giving over time in an attempt to get them to warm to him? Yes. But the idea that he shouldn't even have tried is anathema to the Christian spirit.
Yes, and the first person shouldn't have been a 20-something hotshot American with no training in linguistics or anthropology and with no support from any sort of organization that specializes in these things, with a multitude of laws making any such contact illegal. If India ever does decide to attempt establishing communication again, it should be up to people picked by the government who have the expertise to know how to make it successful.
He absolutely shouldn't have made an attempt, and that's absolutely in line with the Christian spirit. Each Christian has a different calling, and it clearly wasn't his to evangelize an uncontacted tribe. Of all the people in the world for him to evangelize, he decides to pick an uncontacted tribe which is illegal to approach? I'm sorry, but no. That job should have been left to somebody who was up to the task. And no, really wanting to tell them that Jesus loves them does not count as being up to the task.
Until they do, the only people that are going to try are those who are willing to disregard wrongful laws. Usually not respected linguistic scholars.
It is against the Christian ethos to leave any people bereft of the Gospel. He saw a need and felt called to address it even if his attempt was futile, he knew the risks and knew he was very likely going to die serving God.
How can you know what God called him to do? Were you handling the messages? This guy walked into as close to certain death as possible for the smallest chance to have the barest minimum communication of God's greatest involvement with humanity. He sure as **** felt called.
It's hardly wrongful when both natives and outsiders have died needlessly. The laws keep both them and outsiders safe--them safe from outside diseases that would kill them all, and us safe from more people dying. They don't want to be contacted, and for good reason given their prior history of contacts with outsiders. Talking to a group of people who have lived in total isolation for 60,000 years is a tough challenge, and it should be handled by people with the relevant skill sets.
It's not going to be up to one lone wolf to establish contact with these people. It's going to take a well-organized effort. He should have realized that. Even if it was his calling to evangelize those people (which his immediate death strongly calls into question if you ask me), going in as he did with no preparation, no team, no plan and no outside support was a fool's errand. I can't think of anybody who's attempted similar efforts at evangelizing people under those conditions. Can you?
Looncall
Well-Known Member
Deliberate spreading of smallpox is well known. It was done in eastern Canada. There is currently a demand for removal of a statue of one of the perpetrators.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm an ex Christian turned atheist. Actually my life feels more fulfilled then it ever was.
It's really hard to feel any sense of loss when you realize the rose-colored world that you have been living in was absolutely rife with false expectations and ambition that only exasperates each time it conflicts with reality.
In fact, I had actually gained back all that was previously taken away by my decision to drop the rosy glasses and letting all the stained-glass crumble away , and allowing the actual brilliance of directness on its own terms to shine through and illuminate with dazzling and refreshing brilliance that comes with a realization like that.
In short it's akin with that feeling of coming home, after a long and arduous journey.
Cooky
Veteran Member
I did a poll once with my Atheist friends at Christian Forums, and Belk and others said they did actually feel a sense of loss. I believe them.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
They speak only for themselves, however, and don't represent every atheist ever.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Wouldn't breaking the law and knowingly endangering others by potentially exposing them to disease also be anathema to the Christian spirit? Or is disregard for law and lives worth attempting to swap out some silly superstitions?
As I've said elsewhere, I hope the tribe places that guy's head on a pole to serve as a warning to others.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I think christians are blinded how their missionaries say they help outsiders but that simply not true. My coworker said she went to Africa with her church. She said the people there were christian. I'd assume so not because they wanted but their ancestors and still are forced to.
The only way it seems native americans can try and keep their culture is not to side with the US. But its ironic that the US says they help but then bar them from being citizens unless it's done politically.
I mean a christian can see people sorrow and die but for me if I knew my faith is negatively influencing thousands Id never (and dont) believe. While I disagree with killing any intent I agree with the reason of Chau death.