Christians..... you are not the saviors of the world.

[John53]

My ancestors have lived 60,000 years too... But guess what, we're not dumb enough to refuse vaccination like these savages are.

Your tribe has had 60,000 years of vaccinations?

I'm unsure how refusing something they have never heard of or been offered is dumb?

What makes these tribe people so special anyways?

Can't answer that because I'm unsure of what you mean by special.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My ancestors have lived 60,000 years too... But guess what, we're not dumb enough to refuse vaccination like these savages are.

What makes these tribe people so special anyways?

I'm not sure what people mean whenever they call them Savages. I suppose it's the way they treat outsiders, but I always think maybe something had happened in course of their history that caused them to respond in the way they do. Something maybe that their grandfathers and ancestors warned them about resulting in a fiercely protectionist society.

It's not like they themselves are a roving band of pirates or something on the level of Genghis Khan pillaging and plundering and killing whatever stands in their way.

They're situated in one place , they clearly have a culture, custom, and a way of life among themselves and don't appear to go out of their way to bother anyone.

Anyways , what I personally think is special about them is the fact that this is a people who have survived over 60,000 years offering a unique window into the past and how they were to remain so healthy and well as a cloistered and insulated society that obviously does not want anything to do with what's going on outside their lands.

It's also interesting to note that they're not the only nation on that island and are able to coexist. It's just outsiders for which I can only imagine what had happened long ago with them whenever outsiders came onto the island.

 

[shmogie]

Givin the recent threads regarding John Chau's willful disregard for laws that had protected the safety and health concerns of the Setinelese nation and its people for a considerable time.

This is what has been going on since his death.

First, a look at John's stupidity and his spirit of disregard in spite of warnings and concerns that I'm reasonably sure were given to him prior to all this, and the consequences as what has come about from all this so far....

Seven people arrested for helping missionary John Chau before his death

A number of Christians also have the sheer gall to demand this after the fact....

Christian group invites ridicule with demand of murder charges against Sentinelese - Times of India


I think it's time to send a message and reminder to Christians and any other religion that follows a similar path.

In light of recent events surrounding Chau's actions, basically the message needs to be reaffirmed to (hopefully) get it through a number of Christians heads that....



POINT

* You are not the saviors of the world.

*You are not the salt of the earth.

*You are not a beacon of light into the darkness.

I don't know what it takes to drive the message home. Maybe it will take the modern age deaths of an entire group of an ancient indigenous people spanning tens of thousands of years for starters who simply want to be left alone. God forbid. Right?

What a ridiculous post. You indict a billion people over the actions of one man. I am sure you can come up with a better bit of vitriol in your anti Christian campaign than this pitiful effort.

 

[Cooky]

I'm not sure what people mean whenever they call them Savages. I suppose it's the way they treat outsiders, but I always think maybe something had happened in course of their history that caused them to respond in the way they do. Something maybe that their grandfathers and ancestors warned them about resulting in a fiercely protectionist society.

It's not like they themselves are a roving band of pirates or something on the level of Genghis Khan pillaging and plundering and killing whatever stands in their way.

They're situated in one place , they clearly have a culture, custom, and a way of life among themselves and don't appear to go out of their way to bother anyone.

Anyways , what I personally think is special about them is the fact that this is a people who have survived over 60,000 years offering a unique window into the past and how they were to remain so healthy and well as a cloistered and insulated society that obviously does not want anything to do with what's going on outside their lands.

It's also interesting to note that they're not the only nation on that island and are able to coexist. It's just outsiders for which I can only imagine what had happened long ago with them whenever outsiders came onto the island.

Yes, like the way Korea was tormented repeatedly by Japan, which resulted in the Norths hardline stance.

Just curious, do you respect North Korea? After all, they're just doing what they know works to secure their independence.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes, like the way Korea was tormented repeatedly by Japan, which resulted in the Norths hardline stance.

Just curious, do you respect North Korea? After all, they're just doing what they know works to secure their independence.

The thing is , North Korea was an aggressive invading country that essentially through their actions had started the Korean War in the first place.

Not to mention North Koreans in general are not very healthy or are being treated well among themselves.

It's not really a good comparison with the Sentinelese with the only exception they could be considered as isolationists in some respect.
.

 

[Glaurung]

The Russian Orthodox Church is behind what is happening to the JW's in Russia so it's more of a Christian v Christian thing.

So, one example of a majority Eastern Orthodox state cracking down on a minor American sect it doesn't like detracts from the overall trend worldwide? Mind you, the oppressive state atheism of the Soviet Union wasn't that long ago. And it is now rearing its ugly head again, today, in China.

The publicity Mr Chau has brought to this tribe is as dangerous as the risk of disease. His actions were criminal.

The existence of the Sentinelese was hardly a secret. I remember reading about them a few years ago. Nor was Mr. Chau the first to venture to that island. Perhaps things would have taken off on a better foot had he gone bearing coconuts. (You can find that meeting on YouTube).

His actions were criminal.

Criminal in the sense that he broke the law? Yes.
Criminal in the sense that he had malevolent intentions? No.

In fact his intentions were lofty, if misguided. If one is seeking to do some good in the world then there are far better ways to go about it than seeking the conversion of a hostile, pre-neolithic tribe on nowhere island.

What about the people saying things like "the tribe deserve to die from small pox"?

And that's a terrible sentiment. At the same time, my heart doesn't exactly bleed for their perpetual existence either. By that I mean if natural causes were to wipe them out eventually (tsunami, fire, genetic bottleneck, ect) I can't honestly say the world would have lost anything worthwhile by it.

But by all means, leave them alone and prosecute anyone who violates the exclusion zone.

 

[John53]

So, one example of a majority Eastern Orthodox state cracking down on a minor American sect it doesn't like detracts from the overall trend worldwide?

It was your example...

Mind you, the oppressive state atheism of the Soviet Union wasn't that long ago. And it is now rearing its ugly head again, today, in China.

Forcing people to believe anything is wrong

The existence of the Sentinelese was hardly a secret. I remember reading about them a few years ago. Nor was Mr. Chau the first to venture to that island. Perhaps things would have taken off on a better foot had he gone bearing coconuts. (You can find that meeting on YouTube).

It's much less of a secret now. I've never seen North Sentinel Island mentioned in discussion forums before this incident but I had stumbled on it a few years back when googling West Papuan tribes.

Criminal in the sense that he broke the law? Yes.
Criminal in the sense that he had malevolent intentions? No.

His intentions are no excuse for the genocide he may have caused. Unless he was completely dumb or ignorant he must have had some idea that he posed a danger to their health.

In fact his intentions were lofty, if misguided. If one is seeking to do some good in the world then there are far better ways to go about it than seeking the conversion of a hostile, pre-neolithic tribe on nowhere island.

If he had of been there preaching Islam, Satanism, Buddhism, Atheism or any of the thousands of other beliefs would his intentions still been lofty?

And that's a terrible sentiment. At the same time, my heart doesn't exactly bleed for their perpetual existence either. By that I mean if natural causes were to wipe them out eventually (tsunami, fire, genetic bottleneck, ect) I can't honestly say the world would have lost anything worthwhile by it.

I on the other hand would be saddened by their demise.

But by all means, leave them alone and prosecute anyone who violates the exclusion zone.

Very true.

 

[Glaurung]

It's much less of a secret now. I've never seen North Sentinel Island mentioned in discussion forums before this incident but I had stumbled on it a few years back when googling West Papuan tribes.

It was never a secret. And I doubt too many will be discussing this at all within the next few weeks.

His intentions are no excuse for the genocide he may have caused.

The use of the word genocide is a pretty egregious abuse of language. Genocide suggests a deliberate and systematic policy of extermination. Had the natives all died of flu it would have been a tragic incident, not a genocide.

Unless he was completely dumb or ignorant he must have had some idea that he posed a danger to their health.

It does take a special level of delusion to have honestly expected success.

If he had of been there preaching Islam, Satanism, Buddhism, Atheism or any of the thousands of other beliefs would his intentions still been lofty?

The religion he sought to preach is incidental. His intentions were good insofar as he sought to do good as he understood it.

I on the other hand would be saddened by their demise.

It's not that I wish for their demise, so much as I don't think the mere existence of an isolated tribe so backwards as to not even know how to create fire is all that valuable to the world.

 

[John53]

The use of the word genocide is a pretty egregious abuse of language. Genocide suggests a deliberate and systematic policy of extermination. Had the natives all died of flu it would have been a tragic incident, not a genocide.

He went there deliberately. Unless he was completely irrational he must have known the danger he posed. If the tribe does die from a disease he introduced then he is a murderer. Sounds like genocide to me.

It does take a special level of delusion to have honestly expected success.

No argument there.

The religion he sought to preach is incidental. His intentions were good insofar as he sought to do good as he understood it.

Some consider the actions of suicide bombers good. Doesn't make it so.

It's not that I wish for their demise, so much as I don't think the mere existence of an isolated tribe so backwards as to not even know how to create fire is all that valuable to the world.

Fair enough. I feel the same about religious missionaries.

 

[Glaurung]

He went there deliberately. Unless he was completely irrational he must have known the danger he posed. If the tribe does die from a disease he introduced then he is a murderer. Sounds like genocide to me.

If I were to put a name on it, it would be criminal recklessness. Genocide is pure histrionics.

Some consider the actions of suicide bombers good. Doesn't make it so.

From a Catholic point of view this is an easy distinction. The deliberate taking of innocent human life constitutes an intrinsically evil act. It constitutes a violation of the moral law. Therefore no end can justify such an action because it is evil. This was not what Mr. Chau was seeking to accomplish. As misguided as the endeavour was (we all agree that approaching the Sentinelese was a terrible idea) he was nonetheless seeking their good. To bring a people to Christ. (At least Christ as far as Mr. Chau understood Him).

 

[ajay0]

Well, western culture brought an end to human sacrifice in various native tribes as well as the barbaric practice of burning widows alive in India.

As Bertrand Russell says, get your facts straight.

Sati continued in British rule, and it was the efforts of Hindu reformatory leaders like Rajaram Mohan Roy of the Brahmo Samaj, and Swami Dayananda Saraswati of the Arya Samaj, that persuaded the British to ban Sati.

In a petition to the British East India Company in 1818, Ram Mohan Roy wrote that:

"All these instances are murders according to every shastra (scripture)."

The systematic destruction of India's cottage industries to remove their competitiveness to British goods in India, however brought poverty and death to many millions of craftsmen and weavers . Same too with the famines created in India by economic policies favorable to the British market but injurious to the Indian farmer, as shown by the Indigo famine.

Great Bengal famine of 1770 - Wikipedia

Indigo revolt - Wikipedia


The indigo famine was similar to the potato famine in Ireland, which was also a colony of Britain back then. Banning food exports then would have dropped prices and ensured the Irish had enough for their needs, but this was not done.

Great Famine (Ireland) - Wikipedia


All these shows the flaws in western models of administration directed by undue focus on wealth creation and market capture without accounting for basic needs of the population.

 

[John53]

If I were to put a name on it, it would be criminal recklessness. Genocide is pure histrionics.


From a Catholic point of view this is an easy distinction. The deliberate taking of innocent human life constitutes an intrinsically evil act. It constitutes a violation of the moral law. Therefore no end can justify such an action because it is evil. This was not what Mr. Chau was seeking to accomplish. As misguided as the endeavour was (we all agree that approaching the Sentinelese was a terrible idea) he was nonetheless seeking their good. To bring a people to Christ. (At least Christ as far as Mr. Chau understood Him).

I see, killing them in the name of God is still ok (as long as it's your God and not the God of another), at the same time complaining how persecuted you are...

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Smallpox doesn't exist anymore, bud.

Thanks to anti-vaxxers, we can't rest on our laurels about that.

I think it's highly unlikely. I doubt if the Europeans even knew how smallpox spread.

Bioterrorism has been a thing forever, even when some primitive jerks put corpses down wells to poison others.

Also, catapulting corpses is fun.
Biological Warfare at the 1346 Siege of Caffa

Maybe they deserve smallpox?

Trump says the migrants are going to give us diseases, so we're gassing toddlers now. We really have nothing to say to those islanders about welcoming strangers with open arms.

Well, I won't comment on that, but I will say that a primitive, backwards, and barbaric tribe of people who isolate themselves from the civilized world and attack anyone who enters their area will most likely not be favored by natural selection for long.

LOL. They've been around for millennia.

Euro-Americans have only been on the continent for a little over 3 centuries and they are often freaked out that their entire race is going to disappear any day now.

Well, western culture brought an end to human sacrifice in various native tribes as well as the barbaric practice of burning widows alive in India.

Exactly. We just drag our victims behind pickup trucks and hang them on tree branches like normal folk.

However, the british DID end the practice of burning widows in India.

They also made a country that didn't really care about non-cis hetero people into homophobic villains.

I once was friends online with a doctor in India. She says rape, even gang rapes, happen publicly every day. Guess the British didn't care?

Also, European colonization led to the end of religion that promotes human sacrifice.

That's why we don't kill our own kids every day, shooting them, drowning them, s. Wait ...

It is a common mistake for people to say that Europeans purposely killed off all the American Indians.

http://www.historynet.com/smallpox-in-the-blankets.htm

Smallpox had broken out among the British garrison, and during a parley on June 24, 1763, Ecuyer gave besieging Lenape warriors several items taken from smallpox patients. “We gave them two blankets and a handkerchief out of the smallpox hospital,” Captain William Trent of the garrison militia wrote in his journal. “I hope it will have the desired effect.”

Even if one argues they didn't intend it, they sure as hell loved the consequences anyway.

Will there be a few more Christians heading off to the Andamans to preach? Maybe. maybe not.

Quite a few of us on Twitter were willing to buy the islanders some more arrows.

Secondly, as idiotic as this man's actions were, he's still a human being who died a tragic and unnecessary death.

He stated he didn't want to die but specifically returned to people who had recently just tried to kill him. I don't mourn Darwin Award winners, sorry.

It's been said that he was a very kind and good person.

Who was incredibly insensitive and arrogant.

The thing is indigenous nations were for the far greater part, relatively peaceful and had kept their word as a result so conflicts, when they did happen, were not that common place overall.

And a lot of stories I hear of nations hating other nations usually happened after nations were forcibly exiled from their territories and forced into other nations' territories.

Nonetheless, it's almost as some people are gloating over his death which says a lot to me.

The bible's characters do a LOT of gloating over the deaths of even infants.

No one tells the prophet he was a jerk for summoning bears to kill a bunch of kids.

He put his life in mortal danger in the name of God.

And God dealt with THAT, didn't He?

"Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test" or something like that, right?

Further, if they were not murderous savages, they would be capable of receiving the fruits of millennia of advancement that would allow them to make more informed decisions on their tribal direction.

Given they've survived for tens of thousands of years and modernity is significantly younger, please continue telling us how inferior their practices are.

They're not at risk of nuking anyone, for instance.

It does cause me to wonder what his last thoughts were, if any.

"OW!"

It was conquered and colonized by Christians because Christians were the first to develop transatlantic transport.

You do realize Vikings made it across the Atlantic, right? Sure, that was by accident for the most part, but they still did it.

Eurasian conquest of the new world was a technological inevitability, not a defect of Christianity.

The religion specifically teaches people to go around the world shoving their beliefs down people's throats.

Meanwhile, I thought liberals were against cultures that systematically murder those different from them.

These people actually have a non-paranoid claim to be wary, though.

If they weren't murderous savages we could learn to communicate with each other.

They communicated just fine. The warning shots would be universally recognized by anyone who wasn't completely bonkers.

I hypothesize that they are blood drinkers, and that the two elders suffered from blood withdrawal. I think they are constantly giving birth, which explains the beach orgies, and the birth defects that result from the inbreeding is their source of their much needed blood to drink, from which they have become physically dependent, after thousands of years.

You REALLY have a fixation on beach orgies. I'm beginning to think they are murderous savages because you're not invited to them?

Chau knew it was illegal but chose to ignore man's laws and follow what he believed was god's laws.

And the funny thing is, Jesus said if your message was rejected, to WALK AWAY. He disobeyed Jesus. He got what he deserved.

Then atheists never sin, and thus go to heaven?

Yup. An eternity of listening to sycophants is something God tries to break up every now and again.

Is that a general principle? Were all who were martyred during evangelizing actually idiots listening to Satan?

I find evangelism to be telling God He's too incompetent to spread His own word out of His own mouth.

You said that you have no compassion for the GRIEVING FAMILIES/FRIENDS of the missionary or for the kid killed in North Korea.

I'm sorry that family raised an insensitive idiot.

Had they taught him about consent and respect, they'd still have their son.

You guys do realize that ex-Christians turned Atheist feel a sense of loss in their lives right?

...Why try to do that to someone?

Funny, while still a theist, leaving Christianity made me feel MUCH better. I just couldn't be associated with such an immoral and blatantly dishonest "religion of Truth" anymore.

Far too many atheists are obnoxious, ego-centric keyboard warriors who desparately want to win arguments and/or make Christians feel bad.

LOL, yes, God forbid a Christian should ever have to own up to things. Centuries of throwing Jesus under the bus to avoid personal responsibility will do that to people.

Christians: REPENT!
Also Christians: BUT I DON'T!

Second, I can't imagine how sad and pathetic a human existence is that doesn't understand something greater than its own life.

But the jerk didn't respect the islanders' lives, so he was taken out for it. He only cared about HIS glory. After all, neither Jesus nor God needs some random idiot to talk for them.

Yes. But the idea that he shouldn't even have tried is anathema to the Christian spirit.

Because anything Abrahamic based will never value consent.

Until they do, the only people that are going to try are those who are willing to disregard wrongful laws.

Protecting a people from complete obliteration is WRONG?

How can you know what God called him to do?

God apparently called him to be a human pincushion to punish him for his unbelievable hubris.

He sure as **** felt called.

He WAS called ... to die.

He's practically Jesus, what with his doing illegal and questionably moral things despite authorities telling him to knock it off and dying because of it. Maybe there'll be a new religion based on him!

Unless he was completely irrational he must have known the danger he posed.

He was nearly killed the previous time! How does that not scream "DO NOT TOUCH" to this guy?

I love the man with every fiber of my being, but this guy is the Steve Irwin of Christianity.

CRIKEY! THIS ANIMAL IS TRYIN' TA BOIT MY HEAD OFF! I'M GONNA GO PET IT!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Honestly, I would like to abduct a few of them for studying purposes... I think 30,000 years of isolation would place these "people" in a category that might make them a different classification of human.

If not physically different, then at least their mentality might be entirely foreign -Something worth studying IMO.

You sound like a Nazi, honestly (just as ignorant of human biology and evolution as them, as well). Totally racist to an outrageous extent, for sure. I hope you are just trolling. Hubert isn't too far from joining you there in that category in this thread.

 

[Glaurung]

I see, killing them in the name of God is still ok (as long as it's your God and not the God of another), at the same time complaining how persecuted you are...

Do words mean anything to you? Or do you just throw out whatever sounds emotionally appealing regardless of what actually happened and what people have actually said. Mr. Chau didn't kill anyone. He sought no one's death. Nor have I implied that the Sentinelese are to be killed for Christ.... Again, pure histrionics.

And while I myself haven't yet being persecuted for being Christian, I have been threatened on suspicion of being one. (I wasn't at the time). A virulent anti-Christianity does exist and it is growing. Whether or not it becomes influential enough to inform government policy will have to be seen. It wouldn't be the first time atheist ideologues have gained the power.

Spoiler: It has happened before

 

[Cooky]

You sound like a Nazi, honestly (just as ignorant of human biology and evolution as them, as well). Totally racist to an outrageous extent, for sure. I hope you are just trolling. Hubert isn't too far from joining you there in that category in this thread.

I'm ashamed already. How bad are you going to beat me down, Saint Frankenstein?

 

[Cooky]

Bob hates me now too.

 

[John53]

Do words mean anything to you?

Yes.

Or do you just throw out whatever sounds emotionally appealing regardless of what actually happened and what people have actually said

No

Mr. Chau didn't kill anyone.

Not that we know of but give it time. But that won't worry you, they can't even make fire (which is assumption, no one actually knows (forgot to point that out before)).

He sought no one's death.

His actions speak differently. The same as a drunk driver, probably wasn't planning on killing anyone... doesn't make it ok or make them any less guilty.

Nor have I implied that the Sentinelese are to be killed for Christ.... Again, pure histrionics.

Didn't say you did. I said you implied it would be OK if they were... which you did.

And while I myself haven't yet being persecuted for being Christian, I have been threatened on suspicion of being one. (I wasn't at the time). A virulent anti-Christianity does exist and it is growing. Whether or not it becomes influential enough to inform government policy will have to be seen. It wouldn't be the first time atheist ideologues have gained the power.

Spoiler: It has happened before

Talk about histrionics lol

Or don't you realise that there has also been Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Savages, Blacks, Browns, Whites or any other way you choose to group people at the wrong end of the guns? What really baffles me is how you feel a topic in a discussion forum even comes close to what this photo represents. And some have accused the Sentinelese of paranoia!!!

 

[loverofhumanity]

This passage in the Bible might seem relevant to this situation as it covers intrusion.

Exodus 22:2

If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.

 

[Vinayaka]

This passage in the Bible might seem relevant to this situation as it covers intrusion.

Exodus 22:2

If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.

That's pretty harsh. In my faith there is a story where the homeowner kindly offers the thief a lamp to help him find what he needs.