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Christless Christianity

Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Gnosticism in modern times is very complicated, in that there are many groups using the word.
Some even contradict each other.

99% of Gnostics are not born into it. Some are though.
There still exists the mandaeans from iraq.
There also exists other groups..but I am not really sure I should say more about that. Essentially some are born into it, but very few...

the simple asnwer is "no"
Gnosticism has never been one specific group.
 
Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Christless Christianity said:
By your last statement, you appear to value opinions over truth because truth cannot be known, correct?
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Seek NOT the truth
CEASE only to cherish opinions

............

Understand that acting like a dog chasing its own tail is pointless
You can look at, paint and lick an apple.
But you wont know what it tastes like until you eat it.

Wherever you go
There you are

............


It is I who am you, and it is you who are me. And wherever you are, I am there.
And I am sown in all; and you collect me from wherever you wish.
And when you collect me, it is your own self that you collect.

--The Gospel of Eve​
 
C

Christless Christianity

Member
Mr Cheese said:
Seek NOT the truth
CEASE only to cherish opinions
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“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. - Jesus the Christ

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. - John 1

Are you implying that we should not seek to know Jesus Christ full of grace and truth? Hmmm...now that's defintely a Christless Faith.
 
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logician

logician

Well-Known Member
Christless Christianity said:
Here's another very unique claim.

I Am the Resurrection and the Life

17 Now when Jesus came, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles [3] off, 19 and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them concerning their brother. 20 So when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary remained seated in the house. 21 Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” 24 Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. [4] Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to him, “Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world.”
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Nothing unique about this, other myths claim similiar things, in fact, BEING a god means you claim to be the one true way. More imporatantly, this was a very arrogant statement, and blasphemous according to Jewish tradition. Most of Jesus supposed "teachings" were made up to keep social order, particularly the emphasis on the poor being the "blessed ones", essentially wanting to the induce the poor to be satisfied with their miserable lot, and give as much money as they could to the growing church.
 
C

Christless Christianity

Member
logician said:
Nothing unique about this, other myths claim similiar things, in fact, BEING a god means you claim to be the one true way. More imporatantly, this was a very arrogant statement, and blasphemous according to Jewish tradition. Most of Jesus supposed "teachings" were made up to keep social order, particularly the emphasis on the poor being the "blessed ones", essentially wanting to the induce the poor to be satisfied with their miserable lot, and give as much money as they could to the growing church.
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Really, do you have other world religions where God came down to save His enemies by suffering and dying on behalf of His enemies; therefore, He is the just and justifer on Calvary? The proof is in the ressurection. It Christ was not raised from the dead as convincing proof, then Christians are the most to be pitied all of men. If Jesus was not raised from the dead by God, then all Christians are false witnesses and liars.

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. - 1 Cor
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
slave2six said:
I literally feel nauseous when people say stuff like this. You really believe that a human sacrifice of one who is a "virgin" with regards to sin, much less one that was so brutal as the death of Christ is depicted, is not the most noxious, odious, disgusting thing that any deity could possibly want, require or ask for? It's sick sick sick.
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I never can understand why people constantly criticize things and say things disgust them just because they don't believe in them. I find it nauseous when people do that. :facepalm:
 
C

Christless Christianity

Member
ChristineES said:
I never can understand why people constantly criticize things and say things disgust them just because they don't believe in them. I find it nauseous when people do that. :facepalm:
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But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.
2 Cor 2
 
Poisonshady313

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
ChristineES said:
I never can understand why people constantly criticize things and say things disgust them just because they don't believe in them. I find it nauseous when people do that. :facepalm:
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There are a lot of things I don't believe in. Some of those things that I don't believe in are probably very pleasant and wonderful things. Some of those things that I don't believe in are probably awful and disgusting.

I think they criticize things and say things disgust them... because they consider it worth criticizing, and disgusting. The fact that they don't believe in it doesn't affect the premise of their critique and disgust.
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
Christless Christianity said:
Really, do you have other world religions where God came down to save His enemies by suffering and dying on behalf of His enemies; therefore, He is the just and justifer on Calvary? The proof is in the ressurection. It Christ was not raised from the dead as convincing proof, then Christians are the most to be pitied all of men. If Jesus was not raised from the dead by God, then all Christians are false witnesses and liars.

But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. - 1 Cor
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Really, is it necessary to preach on these boards?
 
E

elisheba

Member
part of the ten commandments - thou shalt not murder ( as differentiated from "kill"

killing is justified under certain conditions
 
C

Christless Christianity

Member
J Bryson said:
I'd always thought that it was Jesus.
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God the Father is responsible for the death of Jesus.

Isaiah 53
Who has believed what he has heard from us?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejectedby men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall seeand be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
 
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C

Christless Christianity

Member
J Bryson said:
Well, yes. But according to the Trinity, they're basically the same.

Then again, I'm not a Trinitarian. I think that the high priests (as differentiated from "The Jews") and the Romans killed him.
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Since you are not a Trinitarian, it would be easier for you to see God the Father pouring out the wrath for sin on His Son as a divine act of love for those who believe.
 
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