• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Christmas Deities?

not nom

Well-Known Member
o_O

000qhrd9


merry%2Bkrishmas.jpg
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I love it when we have "Krishna, Buddha, and Jesus were all crucified and born on December 25th!" threads. So misinformed. :D

Well, they were all Ancient Aliens, you know. :slap:
 

Andal

resident hypnotist
christmas_altar_radha_krishna.jpg


I found this picture on the internet...

OKAY, I'm not sure if this is horribly cheesy, breaking the injunctions of proper respectful Deity worship, or just cute, LOL.

I have to say that at first glance it seems a little cheesy with the sleigh and polar bear. However, there is something really endearing to me about this. Being that I come from a cold climate in the winter, there is something very familiar about this. Their Lordships look like the King and Queen of winter. And that is beautiful.

We tend to dress them in Indian clothing as is historically accurate however in the cold winter here, they would enjoy some warmer clothing.

Idk, I'm a softy, I like it :)

Aum Hari Aum!
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Sant Klausa could be our new Hindu Christmas tradition... "He knows when you are sleeping; He knows when you're awake... He knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake!"
I wonder what the armies around him are doing, waiting for presents? :D

Every universe is shaped like a Christmas bauble...
The round one or the the long one? :D
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Why must we stop denigration !

In the broad sense, denigration means displaying something in an undesirable form/shape, different from its original form/shape.

Any act or object that obstructs emanation of subtle sattvik vibrations of the Divine Principle can also be considered as denigration. (All creation is made of three kinds of vibrations - tamasik, rajasik and sattvik. Each creation has a combination of these three, with one being predominant. These are the subtlest of all basic qualities. The tamasik qualities are the most inferior and the sattvik are the most superior.)

While discussing this subject, we will differentiate between a human being and a Divine being. We will include humans who have attained Divinity in the category of ‘Divine beings’.

Denigration can find expression in a painting, sculpture, text, words, sentences, play, films etc.

Importance of Divine symbols

1. Divine symbols emanate Sattva component (or Divine vibrations).

2. A Divine symbol embodies the Divine being it represents. Hence, it represents Divine qualities and serves as a beacon for the common man to walk the right path in this life.

3. A Divine symbol serves as a source of inspiration to an individual, to live his life in a righteous manner.

4. For a believer in the Divine being, His symbol draws equal reverence. (In contrast, a non-believer finds it impossible to feel anything for the symbol, when he does not believe in the Divine.)

5. Because of such qualities and their nature, Divine symbols occupy a special place in the hearts and minds of the devout. Faith, which follows, is a by-product of this phenomenon.

6. Divinity of the mind is the ultimate stage in evolution of a man. To achieve this, he requires the help of some form/shape. Symbols serve this purpose.

Types of denigration

1. Intentional :

A. Out of malice
Example: 1. Paintings by MF Husain

B. To destroy its importance and create doubts about it in the minds of people
Example: 1. Sri Ganesh depicted as Hitler, Laden and Bush

2. Unintentional:

A. Out of ignorance
Example: 1. Deity Shiva depicted as Dog

B . For commercial gains
Example: 1. Sri Durga with whisky bottles in Her hand

C . As lack of pride for its qualities
Example: 1. Srikrushna in a half-pant

Impact of denigration and the need to combat denigration

A. Denigration can shatter faith of individuals and set unwanted examples for future generations.

B. Create a doubt about the credibility of the Divine and / or its symbol. Finally, it can even cause exclusion of religious practices, and facilitate destruction of religion.

One can understand denigration of individuals; it can show an individual in a light, which tarnishes his reputation. Commenting on a Politician’s / public figure’s misdeeds or sketching their cartoons, are two such examples.

At the level of individuals, such caricatures, cartoons, creations or lampooning are the lightest forms of denigration – and subject to differences in personal opinions.

Whereas denigrating the Divine, questions the very relationship humans have with the Divine. It questions the faith of a human in Divinity and Its powers. It erodes values – moral, social and spiritual.

Thus, the urgent need to strongly oppose and stop denigration through any medium, of Deities and Divine symbols.
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Why must we stop denigration !

I will stop, not because it is denigration... It is not. Santa Claus is a Christian saint. (Santa Claus "aka" Saint Nicholas of Myra is the main inspiration for the Christian christmas figure of Sinterklaas. He lived in the 4th century as a Greek Christian bishop in Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey) For me he is a western sign of the spiritual. Because he was a great gift giver. One of my definitions of a true Hindu is one who gives more then he takes. The Myth of Santa teaches this when we exclude all the Western materialism.

What we westerners are doing is incorporating our Deities in to our holidays. Just like Indians have with Holi which was originally a spring festival of fertility and harvest.

BBC - Religions - Hinduism: Holi

I am making our deities relevant to my life.

I will stop because YOU find it offensive.
 

kaknelson

Member
Demeter and Poseidon are both honoured particularly during the winter months but i don't know know about "christmas deities"
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
I will stop, not because it is denigration... It is not. Santa Claus is a Christian saint. (Santa Claus "aka" Saint Nicholas of Myra is the main inspiration for the Christian christmas figure of Sinterklaas. He lived in the 4th century as a Greek Christian bishop in Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey) For me he is a western sign of the spiritual. Because he was a great gift giver. One of my definitions of a true Hindu is one who gives more then he takes. The Myth of Santa teaches this when we exclude all the Western materialism.

What we westerners are doing is incorporating our Deities in to our holidays. Just like Indians have with Holi which was originally a spring festival of fertility and harvest.

BBC - Religions - Hinduism: Holi

I am making our deities relevant to my life.

I will stop because YOU find it offensive.

Yes it was offensive, especially the comments from some people, and making fun is not making it relevant, what westerners do is not my problem as they don't have a clue of who Yog Raj Krishna was, but if you claim to be Hindu and then make fun of your own culture then I have a problem with it, and to me anyone doing this does not deserve to call them selves Hindu or Dharmic, As this is very contradictory of the true Sattvic image of Yog Raj Shri Krishna, and can anyone show me a church where Jesus is dressed like shri Krishna for Krishna Janmastmi, or a mosque where prophet Mohammed is dressed like Aryaveer Shri Ram for Depavali. Christams is just a belief with no spiritualism in it, its materialistic, what these pictures show is the materialism not gone just has a new Idol to blame it on.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
christmas_altar_radha_krishna.jpg


I found this picture on the internet...

OKAY, I'm not sure if this is horribly cheesy, breaking the injunctions of proper respectful Deity worship, or just cute, LOL.


dear every one ,


I hate to spoil your fun , and I am sure you mean no offence , but .......

this is more than horribly cheesey ,
I am not gong to say what I truely feel .

but I an affraid I would say deffinately that this is breaking the injunctions of proper deity worship !!!!!

I realy do not think that we should be imposing our cultural traditions upon the lord , our humility should dictate that we serve the lord in a manner that is pleasing to the lord and not in a manner that is ammusing or pleasing to us !

It is appropriate to decorate the shrine in accordance with the particular passtimes of the lord , but I do not think it appropriate to merge the passtimes of a completely different figure from a different religious system .

O.K. polar bears are cute as toys , but krsna truely preffers cows !

go matta ki jai

namaskars :namaste ratikala
 
Yes it was offensive, especially the comments from some people, and making fun is not making it relevant, what westerners do is not my problem as they don't have a clue of who Yog Raj Krishna was, but if you claim to be Hindu and then make fun of your own culture then I have a problem with it, and to me anyone doing this does not deserve to call them selves Hindu or Dharmic, As this is very contradictory of the true Sattvic image of Yog Raj Shri Krishna, and can anyone show me a church where Jesus is dressed like shri Krishna for Krishna Janmastmi, or a mosque where prophet Mohammed is dressed like Aryaveer Shri Ram for Depavali. Christams is just a belief with no spiritualism in it, its materialistic, what these pictures show is the materialism not gone just has a new Idol to blame it on.

Sri Sri Radha-Krishna is not just an 'Idol'; I'm sorry, but if you see Sri Sri Lakshmi-Narayana and Their Deity forms as mere 'idols' then it would be better refrain from criticisng our religion.

Maybe this is your image of Sri Krishna, but for many of us, we do take it seriously and see Him as God Himself, the Avatari, Adhokshaja, Parambrahman, etc. These Deities are beautifully dressed in clothes appropriate for winter, and instead of worshipping some myth called Santa Claus, they are engaging in serving Their Lordships Sri Sri Radha-Krishna and Gaura-Nitai.

Wannabeyogi is right; Santa Claus originally came from Saint Nicholas, who was a fervent believer in Jesus Christ and helped children when he was a bishop in Turkey. Christmas originally came from the Christian tradition to celebrate Lord Jesus' birth (Sri Yeshu Jayanti).

Dipavali is not a Vaishnava tradition either, but to appease the masses, many Gaudiya Vaishnava temples make accomodations and do some celebration for Dipavali.

Deity worship is still top notch in Gaudiya Vaishnava temples compared to the rest of the Hindu temples in the West... They have Deities, but only serve Them on Sundays, which to me, is quite poor, considering that They are the Presences of the Divine Themselves.

These aren't 'Westerners' who are making fun of the Vaishnava culture, but trying to make it relevant to them as the movement continues to expand outside of India into various places in Latin America and Eastern Europe.
 
Demeter and Poseidon are both honoured particularly during the winter months but i don't know know about "christmas deities"

In western Hinduism, we use the word 'Deity' to mean statue forms of God, and not necessarily a Divine Being per se.

So having a Christ Deity (as my ex-boyfriend who was born and raised Vaishnava) is basically a statue representation of Jesus Christ. Many prefer to utilise this term over 'idol' which have negative connotations from the Abrahamic religion.
 
dear every one ,


I hate to spoil your fun , and I am sure you mean no offence , but .......

this is more than horribly cheesey ,
I am not gong to say what I truely feel .

but I an affraid I would say deffinately that this is breaking the injunctions of proper deity worship !!!!!

I realy do not think that we should be imposing our cultural traditions upon the lord , our humility should dictate that we serve the lord in a manner that is pleasing to the lord and not in a manner that is ammusing or pleasing to us !

It is appropriate to decorate the shrine in accordance with the particular passtimes of the lord , but I do not think it appropriate to merge the passtimes of a completely different figure from a different religious system .

O.K. polar bears are cute as toys , but krsna truely preffers cows !

go matta ki jai

namaskars :namaste ratikala

It goes back to arguing whether saris and dhotis were always part of all human cultures and that if every human being on this planet prior to Kaliyuga were Vaishnava in some stripe or another, if dressing Them only in 'Vaishnava attire' is the only way.

As far as I know, temples have different standards, such as certain temples offering betel nut, and other temples offering only certain types of rice. In the same way, not every temple will have the same standard.

Another reason why I am on the fence about cultural appropriation is because Vaishnavism through Gaudiya Vedanta Society or ISKCON, or SCS Math, or whatever other venues, etc. is spreading and proliferating in China, Latin America, and Eastern Europe. People from all different walks of life are learning how to love Krishna - Krishna is not Indian, or Black, or White, or Oriental - He is for everyone, and sure enough, yes, maybe it is failing the injunctions of Deity worship; however, I do not think that Krishna would be so unloving that He would not look unkindly to those sincerely worshipping Him.


Having His darshana is powerful enough to render the heart to melt with love and affection, what to speak of His devotees offering Him to others in love and affection!

Another confusing standard is showing Srimati Radharani's feet on Radhashtami. Many temples show Her feet, but according to shastra, Her feet should never be seen or shown, as She is playing the mood of shyness, and 'women shouldn't show their feet in the temple'. The ISKCON temple here is one of the few that does not show our Lady's feet because of this.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Gaura Priya;2713077]Sri Sri Radha-Krishna is not just an 'Idol'; I'm sorry, but if you see Sri Sri Lakshmi-Narayana and Their Deity forms as mere 'idols' then it would be better refrain from criticisng our religion.

Sorry, i did not mean "Idol" as in what the Abrahamics term it, Idol i meant as in "my Idol is Sri Ram as he was a perfect human". And for your Information you have no claim to Sanatana Dharma, And i said this because I found you making fun of my religion.

Maybe this is your image of Sri Krishna, but for many of us, we do take it seriously and see Him as God Himself, the Avatari, Adhokshaja, Parambrahman, etc. These Deities are beautifully dressed in clothes appropriate for winter, and instead of worshipping some myth called Santa Claus, they are engaging in serving Their Lordships Sri Sri Radha-Krishna and Gaura-Nitai.

How is mocking of Yog Raj Sri Krishna in some mythical santa outfit not upsetting you, and you claim to be serious about Shri Krishna being Ishvara, then why get upset over what I said, you are the one who was mocking Lord in the first place, how does my comment on respecting our Devas seen as criticism by you.

Wannabeyogi is right; Santa Claus originally came from Saint Nicholas, who was a fervent believer in Jesus Christ and helped children when he was a bishop in Turkey. Christmas originally came from the Christian tradition to celebrate Lord Jesus' birth (Sri Yeshu Jayanti).

Dont say Shri Yeshu, its not in the bible, "Shri" is only reserved for the Lord Yog Raj Sri Krishna ji, Arya Veer Shri Ram Chandra ji (Maha Vishnu) himself, please don't insult my religion.

Dipavali is not a Vaishnava tradition either, but to appease the masses, many Gaudiya Vaishnava temples make accomodations and do some celebration for Dipavali.

You have no cue of Sanatana Dharma do you.

Deity worship is still top notch in Gaudiya Vaishnava temples compared to the rest of the Hindu temples in the West... They have Deities, but only serve Them on Sundays, which to me, is quite poor, considering that They are the Presences of the Divine Themselves.
These aren't 'Westerners' who are making fun of the Vaishnava culture, but trying to make it relevant to them as the movement continues to expand outside of India into various places in Latin America and Eastern Europe.

So we loose the Dharmic culture and tradition for propergating something which is not Hindu/Dharmic (Krishna in Santa outfit)????
Please read and understand the Bhagvad Geeta, Yog Raj Shri Krishna was not just a symbol of peace and love, he was a Warrior of Dharma, he protected and helped destroy ADhrama, and mockery of his divine image is mockery of all Hindu beliefs.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
This (addition of Christmas culture) is certainly not something I would ever personally do, as I find it tacky. But who am I to judge? I love the symbols and traditions just the way they are, and I find no need to change that. The last thing Hinduism needs is more of anything. There's already way too much for most of us.

Having said that, I'm not easily offended, or want to get upset over such things.
 
Sorry, i did not mean "Idol" as in what the Abrahamics term it, Idol i meant as in "my Idol is Sri Ram as he was a perfect human". And for your Information you have no claim to Sanatana Dharma, And i said this because I found you making fun of my religion.

This is my religion too. Get over yourself. I believe in Krishna. And Lord Ramachandra was not just a human being, He is also God Himself. I take my religion rather seriously.

How is mocking of Yog Raj Sri Krishna in some mythical santa outfit not upsetting you, and you claim to be serious about Shri Krishna being Ishvara, then why get upset over what I said, you are the one who was mocking Lord in the first place, how does my comment on respecting our Devas seen as criticism by you.
So where am I mocking God then in any of this?

Dont say Shri Yeshu, its not in the bible, "Shri" is only reserved for the Lord Yog Raj Sri Krishna ji, Arya Veer Shri Ram Chandra ji (Maha Vishnu) himself, please don't insult my religion.
My religion is Vaishnavism. I have no idea what yours is. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura CLEARLY stated that both Jesus and Muhammad were teachers of rasa, and to be considered shaktyavesha avataras who taught God consciousness; in his point of view, every bona fide religion is a form of Vaishnavism, since the only true Jaiva Dharma IS Vaishnava Dharma, but shown externally in various gradations. So Christianity and Islam, according to our acharyas Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Prabhupada, are pure devotees of Krishna.

You have no cue of Sanatana Dharma do you.
As do you. No one can make a true claim on Sanatana Dharma. It is for everyone.

So we loose the Dharmic culture and tradition for propergating something which is not Hindu/Dharmic (Krishna in Santa outfit)????
No; we evolve it. Why is it then that so many temple goers do not wear sari and dhoti anymore when they come to temple then? Why do they come in Western clothes, which are not Vedic in origin? We have moved from performing fire sacrifices (yajnas) to doing arati and pujas.

Please read and understand the Bhagvad Geeta, Yog Raj Shri Krishna was not just a symbol of peace and love, he was a Warrior of Dharma, he protected and helped destroy ADhrama, and mockery of his divine image is mockery of all Hindu beliefs.
Krishna is not a 'symbol' of peace and Love. As I said, He is Ishvara, Adhokshaja, Parambrahman, Bhagavan, Vasudeva, Jagadishvara, etc. All the devatas like Brahma and Shiva bow down to Lord Krishna; He is the Supreme, and nondifferent from Sri Vishnu. There is nothing else than Him.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
Gaura Priya;2713161]This is my religion too. Get over yourself. I believe in Krishna. And Lord Ramachandra was not just a human being, He is also God Himself. I take my religion rather seriously.

To take religion seriously is to abstain from mocking and making fun of religion,
I already posted why these pictures are not Sattvic as per Sanatan Dharma, if you don't understand then its not my problem,

So where am I mocking God then in any of this?

Read the original post of mine.


My religion is Vaishnavism. I have no idea what yours is. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura CLEARLY stated that both Jesus and Muhammad were teachers of rasa, and to be considered shaktyavesha avataras who taught God consciousness; in his point of view, every bona fide religion is a form of Vaishnavism, since the only true Jaiva Dharma IS Vaishnava Dharma, but shown externally in various gradations. So Christianity and Islam, according to our acharyas Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Srila Prabhupada, are pure devotees of Krishna.

Well I follow Sanatana Dharma the way of life that my ancestors followed, and please can you tell me how many Christian and Muslims will agree with your views.

As do you. No one can make a true claim on Sanatana Dharma. It is for everyone.

Sanatana Dharma is for those who protect Dharma, not people who practice denigration of the lord, Dharma Rakshak, Rakshate.

No; we evolve it. Why is it then that so many temple goers do not wear sari and dhoti anymore when they come to temple then? Why do they come in Western clothes, which are not Vedic in origin? We have moved from performing fire sacrifices (yajnas) to doing arati and pujas.

Thats the problem, we are loosing what original Sanatana Dharma sands for, Cloths don't matter but to dress the lord in cloths of a religion that has destroyed many temples, converted so many Hindus is not just inconsiderate but disrespectful.

Krishna is not a 'symbol' of peace and Love. As I said, He is Ishvara, Adhokshaja, Parambrahman, Bhagavan, Vasudeva, Jagadishvara, etc. All the devatas like Brahma and Shiva bow down to Lord Krishna; He is the Supreme, and nondifferent from Sri Vishnu. There is nothing else than Him.

So your pictures of him in a Santa outfit are Sattvic in which sense?, Yog Raj Shri Krishna being the supreme Brahman wearing a santa outfit.... who is the one mocking Sanatana Dharma me or you.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
MOD POST

Please remember the DIR Forum is for Discussion of Individual Religions.

They are not to be used for debate by anyone.


Thank you,
tumbleweed41
 
Top