Christmas Trees are Pagan

[Katzpur]

I know "she" is pagan. I asked who she was. Read my previous posts.

We are talking about Rebecca, the lovely wolf whose post is right below yours.

 

[Aqualung]

No im his wife,

Aaaah. I see.

 

[Katzpur]

No im his wife, and thanks Kat. And im not a true pagan.... just thought I would add that. I just believe in a lot of thier beliefs Faith. Maybe in your eyes this makes me a evil nasty woman, but at least im open minded.

Rebecca,

Please don't think that all Latter-day Saints are this narrow-minded. I apologize for the fact that some evidently are.

 

[Evenstar]

Rebecca,

Please don't think that all Latter-day Saints are this narrow-minded. I apologize for the fact that some evidently are.

There is no need to apologize Kat. Its the same with all religions, this is why im without a church at the moment.... Good and bad.

Does the Bible say Do not judge or you will be judged?​

I hate people judging.

 

[FFH]

No im his wife, and thanks Kat. And im not a true pagan.... just thought I would add that. I just believe in a lot of thier beliefs Faith. Maybe in your eyes this makes me a evil nasty woman, but at least im open minded.

I am not saying that you are nasty or evil and I am open minded. I have experienced a peace in my mind that only came by looking at things the way they really are. Pagan symbols and rituals were among the most disurbing to me. I only achieved a peace in my mind by avoiding these symbols and rituals among other things.

My biggest goal in life was to obtain a peace of my mind. I think that I have attained that through seeing things as they really are and avoiding those things that do not give me a peace in mind and in my heart.

I feel very uneasy with Pagan symbols and holidays which have been adopted by Christians.

 

[Nehustan]

I am not saying that you are nasty or evil and I am open minded. I have experienced a peace in my mind that only came by looking at things the way they really are. Pagan symbols and rituals were among the most disurbing to me. I only achieved a peace in my mind by avoiding these symbols and rituals among other things.

My biggest goal in life was to obtain a peace of my mind. I think that I have attained that through seeing things as they really are and avoiding those things that do not give me a peace in mind and in my heart.

I feel very uneasy with Pagan symbols and holidays which have been adopted by Christians.

Yeh me too...like the whole pagan symbology of the rising Sun/Son...or did you miss that one. Myself I blame Paul and his syncretism (there's that word again!!!). Its amazing what somebody who wasn't a disciple can get away with, me I trust him as much as I trust the IRS (second time I've made that joke on this board, bet it's not the last!!!). Tell you what if I tell you I meet Christ on a road, see the light, then feed you a line, will you belive me. Ohhhh.... why not, I wasn't a disciple of Jesus either, so surely I'm qualifed to lead followers of Jeheshuah astray as much as Saul.....

 

[Evenstar]

And if thats what you feel Faith, thats fine with me.

I have both peace of the heart and mind, and mine is found between both Paganism and Christianity.​

I am happy to celebrate holidays, whether they be Pagan or Christian. I understand you keeping your eyes above, but we all live in a real world.

 

[FFH]

And if thats what you feel Faith, thats fine with me.

I have both peace of the heart and mind, and mine is found between both Paganism and Christianity.​

I am happy to celebrate holidays, whether they be Pagan or Christian. I understand you keeping your eyes above, but we all live in a real world.

We do what gives us the most peace and happiness in our individual lives. I don't expect anyone to agree with my life and the way I live it. I only come here to share what makes me happy and gives me a peace of mind. I would never judge another. God is our only judge.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

We do what gives us the most peace and happiness in our individual lives. I don't expect anyone to agree with my life and the way I live it. I only come here to share what makes me happy and gives me a peace of mind. I would never judge another. God is our only judge.

I respect that, Faith, as well as your faith. However, I hope you will be able to empathize that certain people's symbols and rituals, while apparently disturbing to you, have every bit of worth as those that you hold dear to your own religion. If you are willing to learn about what might have been the origins of them, perhaps you won't find them as disturbing. We're not trying to 'convert' you or anything- it's just that promoting understanding between people of all faiths is what RF seeks to do.

On a side note, if we're dealing with the idea of whether or not Christmas should be observed by Christians, perhaps we should create a sister thread over in the debates section?

 

[FFH]

I respect that, Faith, as well as your faith. However, I hope you will be able to empathize that certain people's symbols and rituals, while apparently disturbing to you, have every bit of worth as those that you hold dear to your own religion. If you are willing to learn about what might have been the origins of them, perhaps you won't find them as disturbing. We're not trying to 'convert' you or anything- it's just that promoting understanding between people of all faiths is what RF seeks to do.

On a side note, if we're dealing with the idea of whether or not Christmas should be observed by Christians, perhaps we should create a sister thread over in the debates section?

Yes I would like to start a thread on the blending of Pagan traditions with Christian traditions. Christmas is a prime example of this. Easter is another one that comes to mind. May Day is another one that was mentioned. I don't know anything about May Day. Halloween, of course is another one.

 

[jeffrey]

I think alot of it is what we are told, and the fear of the unknown. Ignorance. Guilty myself. People like my wife, number 1, and other people on this forum, such as michel, whom are Christians, but practice things that are deemed Pagan. And, of course the Pagans and Wiccas on this forum, I have learned so much from. Knowledge and understanding. My wife loves crystals. Believes in their power. It's what I'll get her for Christmas.

 

[Solon]

Now that is a beautiful thing to do, what a wonderful present for the coming festival.

Solon

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I don't think anyone denies that the Christmas tree's origin was pagan, but the important question is why do people put up a tree each December. For many Christians, myself included, it has come to represent aspects of Christ's life in the form of a Chrismon tree.

 

[Nehustan]

Pagan, today, is really too wide a word for me. It means several things which are not neccesarily interdependent, and I'm never sure what people mean. Having grown up studying the classics and classical languages Pagan initially meant a form of religion with a pantheon, ie. Hindu, Nordic, Romanic, Hellenic and even pre-Islamic Arabia in the Jahiliyah. It could of course be stated that these religions were not single religions but many religions each with their own god, but for the consideration cross culturally I suppose they are gathered together i.e Hermes : Mercury

Then of course there is Pagan in the sense of what may in fact may be better termed as animism, having some correlation to Gaia and anima mundi; that nature itself both animate and inanimate possese 'soul' if you like. By this consideration 'dharma/buddha' nature could also be thought to be a form of this.

Then there were the people especially in the North of Europe who celebrated an eight fold year. The two equinoxes and two solstices really only exemplify a knowledge of a terran solar year, and to my mind are no more Pagan than any other way of dividing time; is my wrist-watch Pagan? The four fire festivals, they do have more Pagan associations but again have much to do with the solar cycle, Imbolc, Beltane, Lammas, and Samhain. I often wonder whether the historic Solar observers of Northern Europe shared the same knowledge base as the common wo/man?

 

[Solon]

Pagan, today appears to be defined as anything outside of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, as they all basically follow the same god, but in somewhat different ways. So, if your not one of them, you are in essence a Pagan if you follow other Gods, including the ancient ones. Althought the Atheists can't be called Pagans as they follow no Gods. Confusing, moreso today. It was clearer with the Early Church, they had only the Gods of Egypt, Greece and Europe to suppress.

 

[Nehustan]

Pagan, today appears to be defined as anything outside of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, as they all basically follow the same god, but in somewhat different ways. So, if your not one of them, you are in essence a Pagan if you follow other Gods, including the ancient ones. Althought the Atheists can't be called Pagans as they follow no Gods. Confusing, moreso today. It was clearer with the Early Church, they had only the Gods of Egypt, Greece and Europe to suppress.

Solon, I don't want to argue with you, but....I don't agree that the Hebrews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. I consider that I, in a way, have progressed through these three traditions, and Jehovah, the father, to my mind is not the same as Eloah/Allah, who is absolute, infinite, without form, not pervading the universe, while sustaining and supporting it, but needing no support other than from Himself. The very fact I use a male reflexive pronoun is a linguistic limitation of the absolute which I have yet to find a way of combatting.

 

[Pussyfoot Mouse]

Yule logs, wreaths, carolling, mistletoe...pretty much everything except the whole Jesus birth thing . And in all actuallity, Jesus was believed to be pagan anyway because of his teachings in Egypt. Also, the Yule religious symbolism of the holiday is the rebirth of the God through the Goddess on the longest night of the year.

Wow, I had no idea. Is there a website to read about this Draka? I would love to learn more.

 

[nutshell]

Since we all agree the root of Christmas trees (no pun intended) is paganism, why can't the ACLU, etc. leave us alone??????

 

[Draka]

Wow, I had no idea. Is there a website to read about this Draka? I would love to learn more.

Upon which subject would you like more information? The pagan religious undertones of Yule/Winter Solstice? Or holdover traditions from one religion to another? You let me know and I'll be happy to explain the first and some of the second. I haven't looked for sites to link to, but I can. I can always recommend excellent books.

 

[Solon]

Solon, I don't want to argue with you, but....I don't agree that the Hebrews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God. I consider that I, in a way, have progressed through these three traditions, and Jehovah, the father, to my mind is not the same as Eloah/Allah, who is absolute, infinite, without form, not pervading the universe, while sustaining and supporting it, but needing no support other than from Himself. The very fact I use a male reflexive pronoun is a linguistic limitation of the absolute which I have yet to find a way of combatting.

Well, they do worship the samme God, but with different names,if not who are they worshipping ? I'm sure that if the Muslims view Abraham, Issac, and Jesus as prophets of God, then they must mean Yaweh, and as Christians also worship Jesus and Father, (God), and as Jesus was a Jew, then it follows that the head man must be one and the same to all three Faiths.

S