Cindy Sheehan calls it quits

[ayani]

Why wouldn't you leave your community and house for a country that you love? Take your friends with you; as I said, Sheehan could probably get quite a following. Sell your house here and buy another one somewhere else where you won't be so depressed and pessimistic. As I said, it's a health issue; staying here obviously isn't good for her, if she hates it so much.

but one can hate the government and still love alot of things about the country, if that makes sense. i have this friend who's Persian (never say "Iranian" to him), who loves, loves Persia, but can not stand Iran or the laws or the theocracy. but his heart is in Tehran and he would never leave. and why should he have to or be expected to?

 

[Sunstone]

Well, in just that article alone, she apparently said, "Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can't make you be that country unless you want it,"
She also said that America is "corrupt," "a fascist corporate wasteland," and "run by a war machine that even controls what we think."


If she doesn't hate the US, she seems darn close.

That's pretty strong stuff, but it could just be loose rhetoric. Sheehan doesn't strike me as someone who chooses her words with much care.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

but one can hate the government and still love alot of things about the country, if that makes sense. i have this friend who's Persian (never say "Iranian" to him), who loves, loves Persia, but can not stand Iran or the laws or the theocracy. but his heart is in Tehran and he would never leave. and why should he have to or be expected to?

He wouldn't "have to," but I think it would be wise, although having never heard or read any of his thoughts I can't know how closely his thoughts on Iran parallel Sheehan's thoughts on the US. Perhaps he could return one day if Iran's laws/government change to his liking. As for Sheehan, what things does Sheehan like about the country? The scenery? I'm sure she could find plenty of non-US options out there whose governments might be more to her liking, and I'm sure many friends would go with her.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

That's pretty strong stuff, but it could just be loose rhetoric. Sheehan doesn't strike me as someone who chooses her words with much care.

Granted, but I don't think this article's statements are isolated incidents, from what I recall of this woman. Even if she does just say overblown things to get attention, it's got to, at some level, indicate her true opinions, don't you think? It's either that, or we should all tell her to talk to the hand because she's full of it and doesn't mean a word she says.

 

[ayani]

He wouldn't "have to," but I think it would be wise, although having never heard or read any of his thoughts I can't know how closely his thoughts on Iran parallel Sheehan's thoughts on the US. Perhaps he could return one day if Iran's laws/government change to his liking. As for Sheehan, what things does Sheehan like about the country? The scenery? I'm sure she could find plenty of non-US options out there whose governments might be more to her liking, and I'm sure many friends would go with her.

yeah... ok maybe not the best analogy ever. she may move. but as i said, i don't think it should be expected of her to move if she hates the country. my point was only that a person who hates the country should have a right to stay in it, and not be expected to leave. scenery, job, loved ones, past cultural glory and hope for revival, etc. the "love it or leave it" slogan strikes me as unfair and overly simplistic.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

yeah... ok maybe not the best analogy ever. she may move. but as i said, i don't think it should be expected of her to move if she hates the country. my point was only that a person who hates the country should have a right to stay in it, and not be expected to leave. scenery, job, loved ones, past cultural glory and hope for revival, etc. the "love it or leave it" slogan strikes me as unfair and overly simplistic.

Like I said, I'm not suggesting we toss her over the barbed wire fence to Mexico, but it seems like there's a lot of people out there who want to be here and live in this country, and who would appreciate it, much more than she does. I don't see why this is unfair; it's in Sheehan's best interest to be somewhere she enjoys being. If she enjoys being in America enough to stay here, then her overexaggerations made in public about the atrocious evils of America should honestly be ignored, or taken with a seriously huge grain of salt.

 

[ayani]

FGS- i think one should also take into account the work she's been doing these past years. she lost her son in Iraq and has gone on to fight the systems that keep the war going, and had worked to the point she feels she can not keep going. she is disgusted and fed up. one can have a right to be in America and still be crushed and saddened by its policies. and your choice of words is interesting- what would it mean to "enjoy" a country in this context?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

FGS- i think one should also take into account the work she's been doing these past years. she lost her son in Iraq and has gone on to fight the systems that keep the war going, and had worked to the point she feels she can not keep going. she is disgusted and fed up. one can have a right to be in America and still be crushed and saddened by its policies. and your choice of words is interesting- what would it mean to "enjoy" a country in this context?

To live in a country whose government you support, whose values you espouse, and the thought of which initiates positive rather than negative feelings. That would be a start.

 

[McBell]

To live in a country whose government you support, whose values you espouse, and the thought of which initiates positive rather than negative feelings. That would be a start.

good luck finding one.

 

[ayani]

To live in a country whose government you support, whose values you espouse, and the thought of which initiates positive rather than negative feelings. That would be a start.

ok, but what if the government isn't doing much to propegate or stand by those values? i do not support much of what the current administration does or says, yet i agree that all people are created equal and with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. i love my neighbors and my city, yet thoughts of my government bring about very negative feelings.

do i enjoy my life as it is played out in Richmond, Indiana? yes, mostly. do i enjoy what my government does? no. what then should i be expected to do? would you expect or hope me to go?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

good luck finding one.

Done!

 

[McBell]

Done!

wow.
you honestly have no gripes about the US government?

I find that hard to believe.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

ok, but what if the government isn't doing much to propegate or stand by those values? i do not support much of what the current administration does or says, yet i agree that all people are created equal and with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. i love my neighbors and my city, yet thoughts of my government bring about very negative feelings.

do i enjoy my life as it is played out in Richmond, Indiana? yes, mostly. do i enjoy what my government does? no. what then should i be expected to do? would you expect or hope me to go?

Your statements come no where close to Sheehan's, so I hardly think it's comparable. Just because you don't like Bush doesn't mean that you think America is "corrupt" or " a fascist wasteland", and I do hope that the US is the country you love...to Sheehan it isn't. It's a completely different level of disapproval we're talking here.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

wow.
you honestly have no gripes about the US government?

I find that hard to believe.

I didn't say I had no gripes...?

 

[McBell]

I didn't say I had no gripes...?

so where do you draw the line?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

so where do you draw the line?

It's hard to draw a line between hating the country you live in and loving it, I hardly think it's an exact science, but I think it's one of those things where you know it when you see it, know what I mean? Sheehan has explicitly said that she does not love this country, and her critiques go way beyond mainstream; she pretty obviously doesn't like it here, if her statements mean anything.

 

[McBell]

It's hard to draw a line between hating the country you live in and loving it, I hardly think it's an exact science, but I think it's one of those things where you know it when you see it, know what I mean? Sheehan has explicitly said that she does not love this country, and her critiques go way beyond mainstream; she pretty obviously doesn't like it here, if her statements mean anything.

but you have come to that conclusion (that Sheehan hates this country) based upon where YOU draw that line.
does it have to be either/or?
If she no longer loves the country does she have to hate it?
Is there nothing in between?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

but you have come to that conclusion (that Sheehan hates this country) based upon where YOU draw that line.
does it have to be either/or?
If she no longer loves the country does she have to hate it?
Is there nothing in between?

There are shades of grey, but Sheehan is hardly "in between" in her comments about the country; I don't know how you could say such things and not hate where you live. Also, as I said to Gracie about her Persian friend, if she truly does love the country and just loathes the current government with a passion, maybe she would do well to leave and come back when the government is more to her liking.

 

[McBell]

There are shades of grey, but Sheehan is hardly "in between" in her comments about the country; I don't know how you could say such things and not hate where you live. Also, as I said to Gracie about her Persian friend, if she truly does love the country and just loathes the current government with a passion, maybe she would do well to leave and come back when the government is more to her liking.

I disagree.
I have an uncle who is a worthless, backstabbing, freeloading, two faced, lie-ing, sexist jacka$$.
But I do not hate him.

The point is that you are using your line and basing her 'crossing' it on how you would use the terms and phrases she did.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I disagree.
I have an uncle who is a worthless, backstabbing, freeloading, two faced, lie-ing, sexist jacka$$.
But I do not hate him.

Do you love him as your uncle?

The point is that you are using your line and basing her 'crossing' it on how you would use the terms and phrases she did.

Point taken, although I think her statements actually go farther than what you said about your uncle, lol...aside from "I hate America," what statements would indicate to you that she does?