Civil War Begins in Iraq

[Darkdale]

Well, I've got to hand it to Al Qaeda in Iraq. They may have just won the war for the peace in Iraq. The bombing of a Shiite mosque has led the retaliatory violence against Sunnis. What they thing happened was that Al Qaeda in Iraq bombed the mosque in order to start a civil war, and start a civil war they have.

The Bush Administration and the Military are denying that a civil war has begun, but I think they are naive. Iraqis want war. These different groups cannot live with each other.

At this point, I think we should give the Kurds their own country. Give them a bunch of tanks, bombs, and guns, and then just leave Iraq and let them have their civil war. Most likely Iran will move in and wipe the Shiites off the map and establish a purely Sunni State, or just pull them into Iran.

This would be very bad for us, but I think we should simply leave Iran a message. “Mess with us and we won't invade you, we will nuke you, over and over and over again”.

If we get involved in a civil war in Iraq, it will end up being like Vietnam. You can’t win em’ all. Strike this up as a victory for Al Qaeda, bring the troops home and regroup. Build many more nuclear weapons and wait for Iran to screw up.

These people can’t live in a civilized country. So, let’s let them kill each other instead of killing us. If they do plan attacks on us, or somehow pull off an attack, we can just bomb them into the earth. No troops, just bombs. Not a cent to help rebuild. Screw em. *shrugs*

 

[michel]

Well, I've got to hand it to Al Qaeda in Iraq. They may have just won the war for the peace in Iraq. The bombing of a Shiite mosque has led the retaliatory violence against Sunnis. What they thing happened was that Al Qaeda in Iraq bombed the mosque in order to start a civil war, and start a civil war they have.

The Bush Administration and the Military are denying that a civil war has begun, but I think they are naive. Iraqis want war. These different groups cannot live with each other.

At this point, I think we should give the Kurds their own country. Give them a bunch of tanks, bombs, and guns, and then just leave Iraq and let them have their civil war. Most likely Iran will move in and wipe the Shiites off the map and establish a purely Sunni State, or just pull them into Iran.

This would be very bad for us, but I think we should simply leave Iran a message. “Mess with us and we won't invade you, we will nuke you, over and over and over again”.

If we get involved in a civil war in Iraq, it will end up being like Vietnam. You can’t win em’ all. Strike this up as a victory for Al Qaeda, bring the troops home and regroup. Build many more nuclear weapons and wait for Iran to screw up.

These people can’t live in a civilized country. So, let’s let them kill each other instead of killing us. If they do plan attacks on us, or somehow pull off an attack, we can just bomb them into the earth. No troops, just bombs. Not a cent to help rebuild. Screw em. *shrugs*

Well, it was inevitable. I said as much to my wife six months ago; we could all see the signs. It is very very sad.

However, I think your :-

These people can’t live in a civilized country. So, let’s let them kill each other instead of killing us. If they do plan attacks on us, or somehow pull off an attack, we can just bomb them into the earth. No troops, just bombs. Not a cent to help rebuild. Screw em

whilst understandable is rather callous. I am sure the moderates will suffer the most out of this. There are no winners in this.

 

[Darkdale]

whilst understandable is rather callous. I am sure the moderates will suffer the most out of this. There are no winners in this.

Quite true. I just don't care about these people anymore. This weeks violence has exhausted my sympathies. The moderates are weak and lazy. They are losing their country and it's their fault. The United States has failed to win the peace, because we overvalued the Iraqi people. The Terrorists had a better understanding of the average Iraqi. The United States was arrogant. The terrorists were clever. This is one of those few successes that the terrorists are going to have. We need to regroup and get ready for the next round.

The reality is that the tribes cannot live together peacefully. The Sunnis and the Shiites hate the United States and the West, so I don't care what happens to them... let Iran take over. The Kurds are good people, and they seem friendly enough. Let's protect them from the violence of the Shiites and Sunnis, and get the hell out of there. The United States army is not prepared to stop a civil war. That's just the facts. So we need to pull out. We accomplished most of our missions, but the Terrorists had the last laugh. If we stay, they'll have a lot more laughs at our expense. I don't want to see that happen. Let our enemies slaughter each other, bring the troops home, and learn from our many mistakes.

What was successful in Iraq? Bombs. We destroyed them with bombs and then just Waltzed into Bahgdad. That needs to be our policy. Screw with us and we'll bomb you. Besides, the lives our soldiers are worth more than a single bomb. Let's protect our most valuable resources.

 

[michel]

O.K; I know where you are 'coming from'; I understand your feelings, but never let yourself go down to the level of the people for whom you have no respect. If you do, you are no better than they are.


Don't ask me what the answer is, I haven't a clue; but I don't think your solution will halp any. All it would achieve is to get the rest of the Muslim nations even more against us (if that is possible). God help them all.

 

[Darkdale]

O.K; I know where you are 'coming from'; I understand your feelings, but never let yourself go down to the level of the people for whom you have no respect. If you do, you are no better than they are.

I don't think I am any better than they are. I just want to live and survive, I want to progress and evolve, I want freedom and rights and security. I don't believe I'm better than any of these people over in the Middle East.

Don't ask me what the answer is, I haven't a clue; but I don't think your solution will halp any. All it would achieve is to get the rest of the Muslim nations even more against us (if that is possible). God help them all.

The answer is that there is no civilized answer. Will the west have the courage to be uncivilized? Or will the West fall apart under the weight of the growing rage and barbarism.

 

[Ardent Listener]

Quite true. I just don't care about these people anymore. This weeks violence has exhausted my sympathies. The moderates are weak and lazy. They are losing their country and it's their fault. The United States has failed to win the peace, because we overvalued the Iraqi people. The Terrorists had a better understanding of the average Iraqi. The United States was arrogant. The terrorists were clever. This is one of those few successes that the terrorists are going to have. We need to regroup and get ready for the next round.

The reality is that the tribes cannot live together peacefully. The Sunnis and the Shiites hate the United States and the West, so I don't care what happens to them... let Iran take over. The Kurds are good people, and they seem friendly enough. Let's protect them from the violence of the Shiites and Sunnis, and get the hell out of there. The United States army is not prepared to stop a civil war. That's just the facts. So we need to pull out. We accomplished most of our missions, but the Terrorists had the last laugh. If we stay, they'll have a lot more laughs at our expense. I don't want to see that happen. Let our enemies slaughter each other, bring the troops home, and learn from our many mistakes.

What was successful in Iraq? Bombs. We destroyed them with bombs and then just Waltzed into Bahgdad. That needs to be our policy. Screw with us and we'll bomb you. Besides, the lives our soldiers are worth more than a single bomb. Let's protect our most valuable resources.

Darkdale,

I hear what you are saying, but what has really changed recently for you to come to this realization? I think a lot of us have been saying this for some time. I admit that I had some hope after the election there. I know you did too. But the U.S. can only do so much for another country. They have to want peace more than war to make this work.

I don't believe that you really don't care about the people over there. At least not the children who will have to live through a civil war hell in Iraq.

The U.S. needs to come up with a plan to get us out of this mess. I like your idea about two seperate Iraqs. We also need to bring Iran into the process. Done right, we might even be able to kill two birds with one stone- get out of Iraq now and give Iran a bone so it can save face and stop its Nuke program. A big bomb/big stick policy over there will be our only ace card.

But will Bush bend on this or will it remain business as usual?

 

[Darkdale]

Darkdale,

I hear what you are saying, but what has really changed recently for you to come to this realization? I think a lot of us have been saying this for some time. I admit that I had some hope after the election there. I know you did too. But the U.S. can only do so much for another country. They have to want peace more than war to make this work.

I believed that once people had a taste of freedom, that they wouldn't want anything else. I believe that once people realized that they had an opportunity to be free, that they'd put aside their differences. I was naive, maybe even stupid. But when you make a mistake, you learn from it and move on.

I don't believe that you really don't care about the people over there. At least not the children who will have to live through a civil war hell in Iraq.

I don't care about them. If I did, how could I stand to allow them to go through a civil war?

The U.S. needs to come up with a plan to get us out of this mess. I like your idea about two seperate Iraqs. We also need to bring Iran into the process. Done right, we might even be able to kill two birds with one stone- get out of Iraq now and give Iran a bone so it can save face and stop its Nuke program. A big bomb/big stick policy over there will be our only ace card.

But will Bush bend on this or will it remain business as usual?

Bush won't bend. This is going to get really bad.

 

[TashaN]

At this point, I think we should give the Kurds their own country. Give them a bunch of tanks, bombs, and guns, and then just leave Iraq and let them have their civil war.

What are you?

I don't believe that you are like us, a human being.

These people can’t live in a civilized country. So, let’s let them kill each other instead of killing us.

If you are afraid from being killed so why did you get your *** overthere from the beginning?

For your info., Iran is a Shiite country not Sunni.

 

[Darkdale]

For your info., Iran is a Shiite country not Sunni.

Oh? OK, well then the Sunnis will get slaughtered by Iran. Either way, it is terrible to be them. But these are their choices. If they decide to have a civil war, The United States can't stop it and we can't get in the way. All we can do is arm the Kurds and leave. We tried to to spread liberty, and if that fails, the only other thing we can spread are bombs. What we can't afford to do is allow ourselves to get caught up in a civil war. Let the UN deal with that - but that won't do any good. They are going to have their war. We offered them freedom and democracy, but they didn't want it. They want to kill each other. What can the civilized world do when faced with that reality. All we can do is shrug our shoulders and build lots of bombs.

 

[Judgement Day]

All we can do is shrug our shoulders and build lots of bombs.

Like that is going to solve the problem..

 

[Darkdale]

Like that is going to solve the problem..

what else is there? prayer?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Like that is going to solve the problem..

Best I can tell from recent developments, the followers of Islam are the last people on Earth I'd turn to for insights on how best to "solve the poblem".

 

[Smoke]

The answer is that there is no civilized answer. Will the west have the courage to be uncivilized? Or will the West fall apart under the weight of the growing rage and barbarism.

I hate to say it, but there may not be any civilized answer. Christians didn't stop slaughtering each other wholesale until they'd done so much of it for so long that everybody was sick of it. And even now ...

I don't of any way to get violent and irrational people to be peaceful and rational. But I do hope we can get some peaceful and rational people in charge in the West. Cheney's idea that military force is the same thing as foreign policy is obviously not helping.

 

[Darkdale]

I hate to say it, but there may not be any civilized answer. Christians didn't stop slaughtering each other wholesale until they'd done so much of it for so long that everybody was sick of it. And even now ...

I don't of any way to get violent and irrational people to be peaceful and rational. But I do hope we can get some peaceful and rational people in charge in the West. Cheney's idea that military force is the same thing as foreign policy is obviously not helping.

Well, military force... I'm not sure if it helps or not. It helped in Afghanistan, but not so much in Iraq. I think we are going to have to fight just like the terrorists - maybe we need American Terrorists, people not associated with our government. hmm, that reminds me of a movie I saw... umm. Swordfish! Have you seen that?

 

[Ardent Listener]

I believed that once people had a taste of freedom, that they wouldn't want anything else. I believe that once people realized that they had an opportunity to be free, that they'd put aside their differences. I was naive, maybe even stupid. But when you make a mistake, you learn from it and move on.



I don't care about them. If I did, how could I stand to allow them to go through a civil war?



Bush won't bend. This is going to get really bad.

They are free Darkdale. The problem is they used that freedom to choose to war with each other.

I don't think that they asked your permission to go through a civil war.

I'm afraid your right about Bush.

 

[Smoke]

Well, military force... I'm not sure if it helps or not. It helped in Afghanistan, but not so much in Iraq. I think we are going to have to fight just like the terrorists - maybe we need American Terrorists, people not associated with our government.

Not so much terrorists, but maybe we do need to think of this as more of a law and order problem than a military problem. Terrorism has no government, no comprehensive organization, no hierarchy. You can't fight it by invading countries.

hmm, that reminds me of a movie I saw... umm. Swordfish! Have you seen that?

Nope. Should I?

 

[Majikthise]

I believed that once people had a taste of freedom, that they wouldn't want anything else. I believe that once people realized that they had an opportunity to be free, that they'd put aside their differences. I was naive, maybe even stupid. But when you make a mistake, you learn from it and move on. .

I have been for staying the course in Iraq for these same reasons , but now I am thinking it is time to get out. I'd like to think maybe there is still a chance to straighten things out but I feel like I'm just BSing myself. The terrorists may not have succeeded in instilling fear here but they are apparently doing a good job there.
You really can't help someone if they won't help themselves. And, IMO, the lack of full support and defeatist attitudes of some here in the US and in other countries helped to bring about this situation.
All we have done at this point is poke the hornets nest with a stick, we may yet have to use the Raid.

 

[Majikthise]

what else is there? prayer?

That and the destruction of Isreal.

 

[Darkdale]

I have been for staying the course in Iraq for these same reasons , but now I am thinking it is time to get out. I'd like to think maybe there is still a chance to straighten things out but I feel like I'm just BSing myself.

That's how I feel. I feel like I've placed all this faith in these people, thought of them as human beings... or at least... I don't know, Mammals of some kind. But they're simply insane. It's frustrating.

Some middle-aged, modern, moderate Muslim needs to write a novel in Arabic, that praises freedom, civility, compassion, hope, and the pursuit of a great civilization. Fill it with heroism. Fill it with adventure. Hollywood will make a major motion film! Let the movie be in Arabic. Shoot, let Mel Gibson direct it! Give these people a vision of the Middle East that inspires them.

 

[YmirGF]

In our arrogance, we forgot that the people of Iraq no longer remember what "freedom" is. We are offering them something they do not comprehend. If the diplomats were clever, they would divide Iraq into three separate countries, with very large walls forming the borders between them.

I am all for carpet nuking the entire area, if things get out of hand. Might make for some pretty sunsets for a few years. There is no such thing as a Muslim moderate.