Civility

[Revoltingest]

That is true but the internet is emboldening them by allowing them to close their world view which real life doesn't allow.

True dat.

 

[Revoltingest]

hey Rev,
Is the word uncivil the same as hatred, I don't think so.
It's still not on your list !

In the interest of brevity, I excluded some other fine words too.

 

[Audie]

That rat ******!

It's easier to live in comforting anger by avoiding understanding.
Thus it becomes hating people, rather than discussing issues.

I had not looked at it that way, but, it makes sense to me.

I wonder btw what is up with the democrats saying that
every election the republicans have won since
HWB were stolen and illegit.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I sure dont, btw, see any sign that "the left" is
making the least effort to understand the
Trump vote, other than to daemonize all who
did, them deplorables.

I find it interesting that when I assume that Trump voters wanted what he promised during the campaign and then delivered during his administration, I’m accused of “demonizing” Trump supporters.

If it’s casting them as “deplorable” to assume that they came into this with their eyes open, would you prefer that I assume that they were credulous rubes who were duped and misled? It doesn’t really fit with the facts, though, since I haven’t seen many Trump voters express displeasure with what he’s done since he was elected.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder btw what is up with the democrats saying that
every election the republicans have won since
HWB were stolen and illegit.

The electoral college has given them a run of bad luck.

 

[Audie]

I find it interesting that when I assume that Trump voters wanted what he promised during the campaign and then delivered during his administration, I’m accused of “demonizing” Trump supporters.

.

Prease exprain.

I dont, btw, think it was so much what he promised as
what he represented.

A regular guy, like them. Wears a baseball cap,
talks straight, and, like what they hope to do, got
rich.

I kind of think the majority of voters are not well informed
and while I wont use perjoratives like "credulous rube" here
the pattern north south east west left right and thro time
has been to sell the voters a bill of goods.

Here is some of what put Obama in office-

 

[pearl]

I cannot figure out just what you mean by this.

All of these, and a thousand more, had the effect of reinforcing the subjugation of people already in a weak or vulnerable position in society. Beyond mere politeness or civility, political correctness was "political" in the sense that it aimed at bringing about social change at a time when racist, sexist and homophobic attitudes found expression in everyday language and attracted no censure, even though the words were humiliating, disparaging or threatening to the minorities in question.

Soon "political correctness" was being used as a pejorative, not least by right-wing shock jocks such as Rush Limbaugh.



http://theconversation.com/political-correctness-its-origins-and-the-backlash-against-it-46862

 

[jonathan180iq]

Not the biggest issue. Far from it. But perhaps the OP thinks rational discussion is the best path on these, and civility greases that wheel?

I'm not sure I agree, but not yet convinced I don't.

Thank you for recognizing this.

The immediate split in the response to what I wrote, and the assumptions I'm reading as to what my intentions may have been, seems completely lost and we aren't but a couple of pages into this discussion... Which is the exact problem that I'm talking about.

Are there dangerous and ridiculous ideas that permeate certain subcultures of our society? Of course there are. Does hostile ridicule make those aspects of society go away, or does it embolden them, especially given the current environment and larger platform? As I said, bad ideas are bad ideas. But you can't win a "war" of ideas in a shouting contest.

I've always dealt with conflicts in my life by first putting the guns down, so to speak. Continuously responding to someone filled with heat-of-the-moment hostility in calm and understanding tones puts them into an uncomfortable and defensive position making it hard for them to rationalize their anger and actions. We all tend to feel justified in our positions until we're confronted with the idea that we are aggressor. "Turning the other cheek" is effective because it calms the striker with internal confrontation. If we ever hope to change the minds of people who feel justified in actively opposing our positions, we have to turn the table on their aggression - not with retaliatory anger, but with calm and reason.

I don't believe we will ever change someones mind without first allowing them a seat at our table.

 

[jonathan180iq]

... as when Trump refers to the White Nationalists and informs us that there are good people on both sides.

... as when children are ripped from the arms of their parents.

... as when people of color are gunned down in the street.

... as when refugees are informed that they are the wrong religion and/or ethnicity to warrant refuge.

Yep - civility is certainly the problem upon which we should focus.

I agree that appeals to emotion are part of the internal dialogue that helps feed a sense of justification in some. But appeals to emotion don't solve problems; In this case, they exacerbate them.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I saw this on Facebook and thought of this thread:

Is this actually what you thought I was getting at?

Secondly, how do you disarm hate?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree that appeals to emotion are part of the internal dialogue that helps feed a sense of justification in some. But appeals to emotion don't solve problems; In this case, they exacerbate them.

You bring to mind a song I sang more than once. I'm so sorry that your sensibilities were ruffled.

 

[sun rise]

Civility is seen as weakness by diaper donnie and his minions. We need to crush them in the polls this November. Making nice with them won't cut the mustard. We need to point out their evil deeds clearly and repeatedly to get all Democrats and independents energized. There are a few on the right who are people of integrity and honesty. Even some of them have said the current regime must go.

The answer to the evil of forcing 3 year olds to appear in a court with no lawyer and no parent to support them as the current monsters in government are doing must stop. I refuse to make nice to such monsters.

Death threats against Maxine Waters must be answered by effective police action. If that's not forthcoming then we need to take control of government at all levels to have an effective police force that will arrest people making those evil threats.

The level of corruption in the current regime in power in Washington is growing by leaps and bounds. I won't be civil to those who are ripping us off, trying to destroy my retirement Social Security and Medicare benefits and so forth. Those people must be stopped by our best and ultimate weapon - the ballot box.

 

[sun rise]

jonathan180iq said: ↑
I agree that appeals to emotion are part of the internal dialogue that helps feed a sense of justification in some. But appeals to emotion don't solve problems; In this case, they exacerbate them

The right has appealed to emotion with the consequences we see now. Logic and reason are ineffective. People must be stirred up and thus motivated to take action.

 

[sun rise]

This is the kind of evil we're facing. Two days ago, former Breitbart writer Milo Yiannopoulos encouraged "vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight."

 

[jonathan180iq]

Civility is seen as weakness by diaper donnie and his minions. We need to crush them in the polls this November. Making nice with them won't cut the mustard. We need to point out their evil deeds clearly and repeatedly to get all Democrats and independents energized. There are a few on the right who are people of integrity and honesty. Even some of them have said the current regime must go.

The answer to the evil of forcing 3 year olds to appear in a court with no lawyer and no parent to support them as the current monsters in government are doing must stop. I refuse to make nice to such monsters.

Death threats against Maxine Waters must be answered by effective police action. If that's not forthcoming then we need to take control of government at all levels to have an effective police force that will arrest people making those evil threats.

The level of corruption in the current regime in power in Washington is growing by leaps and bounds. I won't be civil to those who are ripping us off, trying to destroy my retirement Social Security and Medicare benefits and so forth. Those people must be stopped by our best and ultimate weapon - the ballot box.

An as example:

I'd wager that not a single person on this forum is ever going to even have the opportunity of a face-to-face meeting with anyone you've referenced above. They will, however, have conversations with people in their individual circles who agree with and justify those actions for any manner of reasons. Exemplifying civil behavior with those people, and within their online social networks, and in their actual communities, is what I'm referring to and is what is going to make a much better example of any given ideological position, especially if your ultimate goal is changing votes in a ballot box.

Do you disagree?

 

[exchemist]

And you think the way to address people who would do that is to not kick up a fuss and treat them as members of polite society?

I think the way to address that is to make the point forcefully but in polite language, whenever something unacceptable is said or done. Far more impact is achieved by a well-turned phrase than by bellowing insults and expletives. You can see this in really good political oratory.

But at a personal level of course I struggle as much as the next man to keep my temper, when I see some of what now goes on.

 

[Revoltingest]

Civility is seen as weakness by diaper donnie and his minions. We need to crush them in the polls this November. Making nice with them won't cut the mustard. We need to point out their evil deeds clearly and repeatedly to get all Democrats and independents energized. There are a few on the right who are people of integrity and honesty. Even some of them have said the current regime must go.

The answer to the evil of forcing 3 year olds to appear in a court with no lawyer and no parent to support them as the current monsters in government are doing must stop. I refuse to make nice to such monsters.

Death threats against Maxine Waters must be answered by effective police action. If that's not forthcoming then we need to take control of government at all levels to have an effective police force that will arrest people making those evil threats.

The level of corruption in the current regime in power in Washington is growing by leaps and bounds. I won't be civil to those who are ripping us off, trying to destroy my retirement Social Security and Medicare benefits and so forth. Those people must be stopped by our best and ultimate weapon - the ballot box.

Wow....that name calling sure made a powerful
cogent argument to vote for Hillary's successor.
"Diaper Donny" really convinced me!

 

[David1967]

... as when Trump refers to the White Nationalists and informs us that there are good people on both sides.

... as when children are ripped from the arms of their parents.

... as when people of color are gunned down in the street.

... as when refugees are informed that they are the wrong religion and/or ethnicity to warrant refuge.

Yep - civility is certainly the problem upon which we should focus.

 

[jonathan180iq]

You bring to mind a song I sang more than once. I'm so sorry that your sensibilities were ruffled.

And I'm sorry that a thread about civil discourse has somehow resulted in an unfavorable opinion of me.

 

[David1967]

It's good to know where you stand.

Your right. It is good to know where Audie Stands. Good informed opinion Audie. I stand with @Audie on this.