Claims vs. Beliefs

[ElishaElijah]

No we don't. Why do you think that we need to know exactly who was the father or mother of whom? The tree is still there even if we do not know precisely who.

Ok man see you.
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1-3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

These Scriptures describe the faith I had but no objective evidence because God is invisible. Because I had faith, when I was lost I called out to God and He delivered me, saved me, changed me, gave me a new life filled with His Spirit. This is something tangible that I have obtained from God. There are many more instances the last 35 years that God has demonstrated His love, presence and power in my life.
Next, He promised me Eternal Life which I haven’t received yet so this is by faith, but He did give me a guarantee by sealing me with His Spirit.

Have a good one!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok man see you.
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1-3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

These Scriptures describe the faith I had but no objective evidence because God is invisible. Because I had faith, when I was lost I called out to God and He delivered me, saved me, changed me, gave me a new life filled with His Spirit. This is something tangible that I have obtained from God. There are many more instances the last 35 years that God has demonstrated His love, presence and power in my life.
Next, He promised me Eternal Life which I haven’t received yet so this is by faith, but He did give me a guarantee by sealing me with His Spirit.

Have a good one!

Faith is your weakness, not ours. Faith, especially your sort of faith, is not a pathway to the truth. A Muslim has the same faith that you have, is that evidence for Islam?

 

[ElishaElijah]

faith, is not a pathway to the truth

If you understood what I said and the process I described you would see that my faith did in fact lead me to the Truth, which is in Jesus Christ. That’s where my proof came from, which can be measured and observed, if you were there, from before I knew God to after.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you understood what I said and the process I described you would see that my faith did in fact lead me to the Truth, which is in Jesus Christ. That’s where my proof came from, which can be measured and observed, if you were there, from before I knew God to after.

No, that is merely your belief. If you truly knew that you could explain it properly. Instead you have to rely on weak excuses. As did Conner. Conner is worse than you, since you only fool yourself quite often, what he taught was a system where anyone that believed that they were a Christian could justify their own interpretation of the Bible. They could point to the verses that say a believer can easily understand the Bible. They then use a horrific logical failure in assuming that that premise was true and can cherry pick the Bible to support their own personal prejudices to their heart's content. It also explains why they do not understand the Bible as well as non-believers. We have to go by what the Bible says. You go by what you want it to say.

 

[Sheldon]

Read the last sentence…Evolution 101 says human evolution and the origin of life.

They mean life we know see and how it originated slowly through species evolution, not abiogenesis, as has been explained, species evolution makes no claims and has nothing to do with abiogenesis.

 

[Sheldon]

If you understood what I said and the process I described you would see that my faith did in fact lead me to the Truth, which is in Jesus Christ.

That's just a bare unevidenced subjective anecdote, as has been explained, why you think repetition is going to lend credence to it is baffling.

That’s where my proof came from, which can be measured and observed,

No it can't, since all you have offered is the bare subjective anecdotal claim, how does one observe or measure an unevidenced anecdotal claim.

"I flew unaided to the moon last night, but I can only do this when no one can detect it in any empirical way." It put a big smile on my face, so that's evidence for the claim then is it? We can observe and measure my smile, and I can observe and measure me flying to the moon, if one accept your risible standard for evidence...

if you were there, from before I knew God to after.

We were not, and lets assume the change was profound, and cannot be easily explained, so what? Making assertions by appeals to mystery is the very definition of an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

 

[Valjean]

This is subjective interpretation that isn’t proven, you can fill in the blank family tree. There is common design by the Creator.

This is not only unproven, but entirely unevidenced.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
No it really isn't, that is just a desperate falsehood.



Common ancestry is a scientific fact, it is evidenced from multiple fields of scientific endeavour, genetics alone would be sufficient, as would the fossil record. Your ignorance of this, and your desperation to bend all facts to supporting your unevidenced religious beliefs, or to deny those facts, doesn't change it.

Evidence for evolution.

"Homologous structures provide evidence for common ancestry, while analogous structures show that similar selective pressures can produce similar adaptations (beneficial features). Similarities and differences among biological molecules (e.g., in the DNA sequence of genes) can be used to determine species' relatedness."

This is subjective interpretation that isn’t proven, you can fill in the blank family tree. There is common design by the Creator.

Shared or common ancestry is a scientific fact, supported by a massive weight of objective evidence, as my post demonstrated , and you ignored, and are now misrepresenting as subjective opinion, again.

You have demonstrated no objective evidence for a creator or any creation, and simply keep asserting it.If you want to claim established scientific facts, and accepted scientific theories are subjective crack on, but that's sheer bias as you know you accept scientific facts when they don't contradict parts of your religious beliefs.

NB it is worth nothing again, that in the astronomically unlikely event, that multiple fields of scientific endeavour were reversed overnight, and the fields of biology and medical science entirely set back to naught, by species evolution being totally or even substantially reversed....

Creationism would gain no credence whatsoever, as it is an unevidenced and superstitious archaic myth. It is a false dichotomy creationists flog, that we are limited to choosing between a scientific fact of species evolution and shared ancestry, and archaic creation myths, but this is of course as false as it is irrational.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Creationism would gain no credence whatsoever, as it is an unevidenced and superstitious archaic myth. It is a false dichotomy creationists flog, that we are limited to choosing between a scientific fact of species evolution and shared ancestry, and archaic creation myths, but this is of course as false as it is irrational.

Until you die of course, that’s when your myth statement hits reality, then what do you say?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Until you die of course, that’s when your myth statement hits reality, then what do you say?

When you die, you die. It is the end.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Shared or common ancestry is a scientific fact, supported by a massive weight of objective evidence, as my post demonstrated , and you ignored, and are now misrepresenting as subjective opinion, again.

Common design is an obvious fact but not shared ancestry, we don’t even share the same flesh, we have arms, legs, eyes etc. but different.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Common design is an obvious fact but not shared ancestry, we don’t even share the same flesh, we have arms, legs, eyes etc. but different.

Sorry, but it is not obvious. Obvious facts are easily supported. You have as yet to show any evidence at all for your beliefs.

Let me help you. First you need to learn what counts as evidence in such an argument:

Scientific evidence is evidence that serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis,[1] although scientists also use evidence in other ways, such as when applying theories to practical problems

The first thing you need to even have evidence is a testable hypothesis. What is your hypothesis and what possible test could show it to be wrong?

 

[ElishaElijah]

They mean life we know see and how it originated slowly through species evolution, not abiogenesis, as has been explained, species evolution makes no claims and has nothing to do with abiogenesis.

Except when you look at the tree of life it goes to where? The obvious diagrams are right there in Evolution 101, the tree isn’t even filled in with any information but blank, just hypothesis and subjective interpretation which is just myth and a religious idea so I think your are religious, your trust in natural selection which started as a certain unexplained organism. This results in what for you?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Sorry, but it is not obvious. Obvious facts are easily supported. You have as yet to show any evidence at all for your beliefs.

Let me help you. First you need to learn what counts as evidence in such an argument:

Scientific evidence is evidence that serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis,[1] although scientists also use evidence in other ways, such as when applying theories to practical problems

The first thing you need to even have evidence is a testable hypothesis. What is your hypothesis and what possible test could show it to be wrong?

You said look at Evolution 101 and I did and found you to be ignorant of evolution and even what it says. As I said fill in the missing tree down to the last single part of the tree or the first organism.

 

[Valjean]

Until you die of course, that’s when your myth statement hits reality, then what do you say?

Till then, the belief remains irrational.
Both before and after death, the rational approach is to follow the evidence.

 

[Sheldon]

Until you die of course, that’s when your myth statement hits reality, then what do you say?

Shared or common ancestry is a scientific fact, supported by a massive weight of objective evidence, as my post demonstrated, thus it is not remotely a myth. There isn't a shred of objective evidence that my consciousness can survive my own physical death in any meaningful way, so your loaded question is as absurd as it is meaningless. Pascal's wager has been debunked on here, more than once, even by me. It's major flaw is the unevidenced assumption of risk in disbelief, you seem to not know this, which is not doubt why you have paraphrased it here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Except when you look at the tree of life it goes to where? The obvious diagrams are right there in Evolution 101, the tree isn’t even filled in with any information but blank, just hypothesis and subjective interpretation which is just myth and a religious idea so I think your are religious, your trust in natural selection which started as a certain unexplained organism. This results in what for you?

Okay, you do not understand the tree of life.

Why not ask questions instead?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You said look at Evolution 101 and I did and found you to be ignorant of evolution and even what it says. As I said fill in the missing tree down to the last single part of the tree or the first organism.

No, you demonstrated that you cannot understand what you read. Your conclusions are all wrong. Once again, ask questions. Try to learn. Don't be a poster boy for Dunning Kruger:

Right now you are in the upper left of that graph.

 

[Sheldon]

Except when you look at the tree of life it goes to where? The obvious diagrams are right there in Evolution 101, the tree isn’t even filled in with any information but blank, just hypothesis and subjective interpretation which is just myth and a religious idea so I think your are religious, your trust in natural selection which started as a certain unexplained organism. This results in what for you?

Species evolution is an accepted scientific fact, you can dishonestly type the word myth after it all you want, this won't make it true.

 

[Valjean]

Except when you look at the tree of life it goes to where? The obvious diagrams are right there in Evolution 101, the tree isn’t even filled in with any information but blank, just hypothesis and subjective interpretation which is just myth and a religious idea so I think your are religious, your trust in natural selection which started as a certain unexplained organism. This results in what for you?

The tree of life doesn't go anywhere. It's an educational aid.
Researchers continue to accumulate information, and diagram it for clarity.
What this has to do with your evolutionary skepticism I have no idea.