Clear Contradictions in Baha'ism

[mojtaba]

Hello every one!

In this thread the Baha'i leaders contradictory sayings and actions regarding the twelve Baha'i principles have been put forward.

Baha'ullah said,

.تناقض را در ساحت اقدس مظاهر الهيه راه نبوده و نخواهد بود​

'Contradiction has and will not ever have a way in the sanctified realm of the Divine Manifestations.'
( See, Amro Khalq, V.2, P.48 )

 

[mojtaba]

the Principle of Investigating the Truth

Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Another new principle revealed by Bahā’u’llāh is the injunction to investigate truth.”
(See,`Abdu’l-Bahā, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 454.)

But, Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
"The foundation of the all divine religions is one. It is one truth, it is one spirit, it is one light, and it does not have a multitude. Among the foundations of the divine religion is seeking the truth [so] that the whole of humanity seeks the truth.”
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt (Egypt), vol. 1, p. 66. )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth. Man must seek the truth and set aside imitations.'
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 144. )

But, Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
'His[ i.e., Baha'ullah ] first teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity!!!'
(See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

 

[YmirGF]

the Principle of Investigating the Truth

Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Another new principle revealed by Bahā’u’llāh is the injunction to investigate truth.”
(See,`Abdu’l-Bahā, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 454.)

But, Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
"The foundation of the all divine religions is one. It is one truth, it is one spirit, it is one light, and it does not have a multitude. Among the foundations of the divine religion is seeking the truth [so] that the whole of humanity seeks the truth.”
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt (Egypt), vol. 1, p. 66. )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth. Man must seek the truth and set aside imitations.'
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 144. )

But, Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
'His[ i.e., Baha'ullah ] first teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity!!!'
(See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

It's not a contradiction if the "first teaching" is that the truth is that humanity is One.

I'm not a fan of the Bahai faith, but this is pretty low hanging fruit, @mojtaba

 

[mojtaba]

It's not a contradiction if the "first teaching" is that the truth is that humanity is One.

I'm not a fan of the Bahai faith, but this is pretty low hanging fruit, @mojtaba

Thank you for your comment.

I think your assumption is not valid.

Anyway, see this two contradicting sentences,
Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth.( اول تعلیم حضرت بهاء الله تحری حقیقت است )
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khetābāt, vol. 2, p. 144. )

But Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s second teaching is the seeking of the truth.'( ثانی تعلیم بهاء الله تحری حقیقت است )
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khetābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

This is a clear contradiction, isn't it?

 

[YmirGF]

Thank you for your comment.

I think your assumption is not valid.

Anyway, see this two contradicting sentences,
Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth.( اول تعلیم حضرت بهاء الله تحری حقیقت است )
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khetābāt, vol. 2, p. 144. )

But Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s second teaching is the seeking of the truth.'( ثانی تعلیم بهاء الله تحری حقیقت است )
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khetābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

This is a clear contradiction, isn't it?

Yes, it does SEEM contradictory, but if the third teaching is also the seeking of the truth it then is simply a literary device underscoring the importance of seeking said truth.

Again, I'm no fan of Bahai thought, but I'm willing to cut them some slack on what is a fairly trivial contradiction.
I wonder what Bahia's themselves have to say?
@loverofhumanity @arthra

 

[mojtaba]

Yes, it does SEEM contradictory, but if the third teaching is also the seeking of the truth it then is simply a literary device underscoring the importance of seeking said truth.

Again, I'm no fan of Bahai thought, but I'm willing to cut them some slack on what is a fairly trivial contradiction.
I wonder what Bahia's themselves have to say?
@loverofhumanity @arthra

Thank you again.

Again, your saying is not valid.

The following could help:

Abdu’l-Bahā said in the first part of one of his books, that is Khetabat( page 5), that,

His[ i.e., Baha'ullah ] first teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity.......Bahā’u’llāh’s second teaching is the seeking of the truth.
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

But, Abdu’l-Bahā says in pages 144 and 145 of that book:
Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth.......Bahā’u’llāh’s second teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity!!!
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 144-5 )

Good luck!

 

[YmirGF]

Thank you again.

Again, your saying is not valid.

The following could help:

Abdu’l-Bahā said in the first part of one of his books, that is Khetabat( page 5), that,

His[ i.e., Baha'ullah ] first teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity.......Bahā’u’llāh’s second teaching is the seeking of the truth.
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

But, Abdu’l-Bahā says in pages 144 and 145 of that book:
Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth.......Bahā’u’llāh’s second teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity!!!
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 144-5 )

Good luck!

I do understand @mojtaba and I hear ya.
That said, it is rather interesting that no Bahai supporter has chosen to comment. That IS noteworthy.

 

[Sundance]

I hate to break the bit of a silence, @YmirGF, but I'll comment on @mojtaba's post.

Basically, in one post, you're dealing with a reiteration of one principle, but in subsequent posts, you criticize the order in which the same two principles are listed. There's no contradiction there. In all honesty, any contradiction you see is only a product of your own delusion.

 

[mojtaba]

I hate to break the bit of a silence, @YmirGF, but I'll comment on @mojtaba's post.

Basically, in one post, you're dealing with a reiteration of one principle, but in subsequent posts, you criticize the order in which the same two principles are listed. There's no contradiction there. In all honesty, any contradiction you see is only a product of your own delusion.

Thank you.

Dear @DJ_sXe, are the following contradicting sentences my delutions or Abdu’l-Bahā's delutions?!

See post #1 for sources and details:

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Investigating the truth is a new principle which was reveared by Baha'ullah.

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Seeking the truth is the foundation of all the Prophets.
------------------------------------------------

See post #6 for details:

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Bahā’u’llāh’s first principle is investigating the truth, and the second one is the oneness of humanity.

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Bahā’u’llāh’s first principle is the oneness of humanity and the second one is investigating the truth.

 

[Sundance]

Thank you.

Dear @mojtaba, the followings are my delution or Abdu’l-Bahā's delutions?!

See post #1 for sources and details:

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Investigating the truth is a new principle which was reveared by Baha'ullah.

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Seeking the truth is the foundation of all the Prophets.
------------------------------------------------

See post #6 for details:

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Bahā’u’llāh’s first principle is investigating the truth, and the second one is the oneness of humanity.

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

Bahā’u’llāh’s first principle is the oneness of humanity and the second one is investigating the truth.

Clearly, such are your own delusions.

 

[psychoslice]

People will do anything they can to silence truth, for me personally if the world had many more following the Baha'i faith it would be better than it is now with the many religions that only drag this world down and want to do nothing but to compete.

 

[mojtaba]

Clearly, such are your own delusions.

Thank you, a convincing answer!!!

 

[mojtaba]

People will do anything they can to silence truth, for me personally if the world had many more following the Baha'i faith it would be better than it is now with the many religions that only drag this world down and want to do nothing but to compete.

Bahā’u’llāh:
Whoever does not become a Baha’i is among the most ignorant of the people, even if he has mastery over all sciences.
(Bahā’u’llāh, Iqtidārāt wa chand loheḥ dīgar, p. 111)

Bahā’u’llāh:
Torment the deniers of Baha’ism.
(Bahā’u’llāh, Majmū`iy-i alwāḥ-i mubārak-ih, p. 216.)

 

[psychoslice]

Bahā’u’llāh:
Whoever does not become a Baha’i is among the most ignorant of the people, even if he has mastery over all sciences.
(Bahā’u’llāh, Iqtidārāt wa chand loheḥ dīgar, p. 111)

Bahā’u’llāh:
Torment the deniers of Baha’ism.
(Bahā’u’llāh, Majmū`iy-i alwāḥ-i mubārak-ih, p. 216.)

Could I ask you, what becomes of those who don't convert to Islam, and are they ignorant if they don't ?.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

the Principle of Investigating the Truth

Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Another new principle revealed by Bahā’u’llāh is the injunction to investigate truth.”
(See,`Abdu’l-Bahā, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 454.)

But, Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
"The foundation of the all divine religions is one. It is one truth, it is one spirit, it is one light, and it does not have a multitude. Among the foundations of the divine religion is seeking the truth [so] that the whole of humanity seeks the truth.”
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt (Egypt), vol. 1, p. 66. )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abdu’l-Bahā said,
'Bahā’u’llāh’s first teaching is the seeking of the truth. Man must seek the truth and set aside imitations.'
( See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 144. )

But, Abdu’l-Bahā also said,
'His[ i.e., Baha'ullah ] first teaching is the Oneness of the World of Humanity!!!'
(See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Khaṭābāt, vol. 2, p. 5. )

Weird. The oneness of the world of humanity is seeking the truth. When you seek the truth, you find that the foundation of all religions are one divine source. That source is god.

How is that contradictory?

Had to read it three or four times.

 

[mojtaba]

Could I ask you, what becomes of those who don't convert to Islam, and are they ignorant if they don't ?.

Here is about Baha'is, not other religions. I want to show the contradicting sayings of Baha'i infallible! leaders.

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

One must not label people as being ignorant.
(Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb, vol. 1, p. 355.)

Bahā’u’llāh:

Whoever does not become a Baha’i is among the most ignorant of the people, even if he has mastery over all sciences.
(Bahā’u’llāh, Iqtidārāt wa chand lauḥ dīgar, p. 111)

 

[psychoslice]

Here is about Baha'is, not other religions. I want to show the contradicting sayings of Baha'i infallible! leaders.

`Abdu’l-Bahā:

One must not label people as being ignorant.
(Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb, vol. 1, p. 355.)

Bahā’u’llāh:

Whoever does not become a Baha’i is among the most ignorant of the people, even if he has mastery over all sciences.
(Bahā’u’llāh, Iqtidārāt wa chand lauḥ dīgar, p. 111)

Thanks for not answering the question, and also you are not seeing the spirituality but only the words, you are reading them from the ego not from within, maybe your too use of doing that ?.

 

[mojtaba]

Weird. The oneness of the world of humanity is seeking the truth. When you seek the truth, you find that the foundation of all religions are one divine source. That source is god.

How is that contradictory?

Had to read it three or four times.

Thank you for your comment.

Please see the second part of the post #9. `Abdu’l-Bahā was going to list the beliefs of Baha'is( which Baha'i leaders themselves did not do them ). In the first part of his book, he says that the first teaching of Baha'ullah is A and the second one is B and the third is .... . But, after about 100 pages, he says that the first teaching of Bah'ullah is B and the second one is A!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From post 9 and what you bold, it looks like the author fliped the numbers around. The content is still the same, seeking the truth which is the oneness of humanity. Whether Baha... said it was the first or second principle is besides the point.

Thank you for your comment.

Please see the second part of the post #9. `Abdu’l-Bahā was going to list the beliefs of Baha'is( which Baha'i leaders themselves did not do them ). In the first part of his book, he says that the first teaching of Baha'ullah is A and the second one is B and the third is .... . But, after about 100 pages, he says that the first teaching of Bah'ullah is B and the second one is A!!

 

[mojtaba]

Thanks for not answering the question, and also you are not seeing the spirituality but only the words, you are reading them from the ego not from within, maybe your too use of doing that ?.

Exeuse me. I did not answer your question, because I do not like to change the topic.

Also, by Allah, when I were trying to investigate the truth, I tried to judge freely. I even tried to force myself that I think that the sayins of Baha'ullah for example in Aqdas, are indeed the words of Almighty God.

I pray and worship only God, not Prophets. So, if I become sure that a person is the Prophet of that God, I surly follow him.