Clerics urge new jihad over Gaza

[kai]

At a weekend meeting in Istanbul, 200 religious scholars and clerics met with senior Hamas officials to plot a new jihad centred on Gaza.
The BBC's Bill Law was the only Western journalist at the meeting. In a hall crowded with conservative Sunni Muslim sheikhs and scholars, in a hotel close to Istanbul's Ataturk Airport speaker after speaker called for jihad against Israel in support of Hamas.



But --but ---they told me Jihad was an inner struggle that we had it all wrong its not a holy war at all?



BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Clerics urge new jihad over Gaza

 

[kai]

Mohammed Nazzal, a senior Hamas leader based in Damascus, challenged Arab governments to "open their borders and allow the fighters to come."
Delegates from all over the Middle East, and from Somalia, Sudan, Pakistan and Indonesia applauded as he stabbed the air with a raised finger and declared: "There will be no agreement with Israel... only weapons will bring respect."

Mr Nazzal told his audience: "Don't worry about casualties."




"Don't worry about casualties." ? I see he has the Palestinians as his first priority

 

[jamaesi]

But --but ---they told me Jihad was an inner struggle that we had it all wrong its not a holy war at all?

Holy war = harb-u-muqadasah
Jihad = struggle (both internal and external)

Jihad can mean an internal struggle to be a better Muslim (the greater jihad) and it can also mean fighting to defend the ummah and to defend nonMuslims who are living in areas under control of Muslims or those nonMuslims who have some sort of treaty/contract/whatnot with Muslims. Fighting in defense is not a holy war- there is nothing in Islam that says you can fight against nonMuslims just because they are nonMuslims. There are also limited places on phsyical jihad, like the how noncombatants/civilians can not be harmed, that you have to be just and not violate human rights, it has to respect religious freedom (meaning you can't fight to force Islam on another group), that if attempts to make peace are made you have to try to make peace...

This isn't a comment on the topic of the OP, but the misinformation contained in it.


As for the OP, page me when these "clerics" do something useful.

 

[jamaesi]

Mohammed Nazzal, a senior Hamas leader based in Damascus, challenged Arab governments to "open their borders and allow the fighters to come."
Delegates from all over the Middle East, and from Somalia, Sudan, Pakistan and Indonesia applauded as he stabbed the air with a raised finger and declared: "There will be no agreement with Israel... only weapons will bring respect."

Mr Nazzal told his audience: "Don't worry about casualties."




"Don't worry about casualties." ? I see he has the Palestinians as his first priority

More proof that Hamas does nothing but spit on Islam and the Palestinian people.

 

[sindbad5]

Thank you Kai for showing me this, i didn't hear about this conference before, it's great, a first step on the right road to resist those who think stealing and killing will go without punishment.

i always said Zionists will pay, the bills of their actions against my sisters and brothers Muslims and Christians, the bills become too heavy to let it go.

palestine conflict showed many things, between them all the inability of the islamic world to defend itself agains brutal hits like israel, yes, israel itself is a hit, a bullet going thru the islamic heart, even trying to go with this bullet in-place is failed, the bullet keep moving, spreading, eating the flesh of palestine with its settelers.

what can you do when you try to co-exist with your relatives killer and home-land stealer yet he keeps refuse that co-existance raising a sign "it's all or nothing"?

 

[kai]

Thank you Kai for showing me this, i didn't hear about this conference before, it's great, a first step on the right road to resist those who think stealing and killing will go without punishment.

i always said Zionists will pay, the bills of their actions against my sisters and brothers Muslims and Christians, the bills become too heavy to let it go.

palestine conflict showed many things, between them all the inability of the islamic world to defend itself agains brutal hits like israel, yes, israel itself is a hit, a bullet going thru the islamic heart, even trying to go with this bullet in-place is failed, the bullet keep moving, spreading, eating the flesh of palestine with its settelers.

what can you do when you try to co-exist with your relatives killer and home-land stealer yet he keeps refuse that co-existance raising a sign "it's all or nothing"?

cheers Sinbad no problem>

remember the rallying cry-----"Don't worry about casualties."

 

[jamaesi]

Thank you Kai for showing me this, i didn't hear about this conference before, it's great, a first step on the right road to resist those who think stealing and killing will go without punishment.

i always said Zionists will pay, the bills of their actions against my sisters and brothers Muslims and Christians, the bills become too heavy to let it go.

palestine conflict showed many things, between them all the inability of the islamic world to defend itself agains brutal hits like israel, yes, israel itself is a hit, a bullet going thru the islamic heart, even trying to go with this bullet in-place is failed, the bullet keep moving, spreading, eating the flesh of palestine with its settelers.

what can you do when you try to co-exist with your relatives killer and home-land stealer yet he keeps refuse that co-existance raising a sign "it's all or nothing"?

Congratulations, another reason why there will never be peace in Israel and Palestine if people like you don't just get the hell out of the way.

 

[ayani]

what can you do when you try to co-exist with your relatives killer and home-land stealer yet he keeps refuse that co-existance raising a sign "it's all or nothing"?

well, that depends on what one's beliefs and ideologies dictate one do.

 

[sindbad5]

Congratulations, another reason why there will never be peace in Israel and Palestine if people like you don't just get the hell out of the way.

peace???
well, with your wisdom and good judge, can you enlight us how to make peace in Palestine ?
maybe if pals go to a rally with candles in their hands, Israel will fall apart crying of guilt and asking for forgiveness, right?

either you don't know what's israel (maybe you think it's like english colonialism for example, so, another Palestinian Ghandi will magically solve the problem)
or you have some common sense problems figuring out when someone try to kill you, you must try to stop him as a natural instinct.

well, that depends on what one's beliefs and ideologies dictate one do.

i think ALL sane beliefs and ideologies will tell you to defend yourself, if not, it must be a serious problem in this ideology.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

well, with your wisdom and good judge, can you enlight us how to make peace in Palestine ?

Renounce the Hamas Charter and its attendant commitment to terrorism.

 

[sindbad5]

Renounce the Hamas Charter and its attendant commitment to terrorism.

that's it?
an agony for millions started 70 years ago, and a conflict that drag an entire region back is just become a small sentence in a charter for a small resistance group established 20 years ago?

 

[YmirGF]

that's it?
an agony for millions started 70 years ago, and a conflict that drag an entire region back is just become a small sentence in a charter for a small resistance group established 20 years ago?

I am more inclined to call for the unconditional surrender of Hamas and complete demilitarization of the entire Gaza/West bank areas. But that's just me.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Renounce the Hamas Charter and its attendant commitment to terrorism.

that's it?

Yep: that's it.

an agony for millions started 70 years ago, and a conflict that drag an entire region back is just become a small sentence in a charter for a small resistance group established 20 years ago?

How quaint. The commitment to make the region Judenrein is offered up as nothing more than "a small sentence in a charter for a small resistance group".

 

[ayani]

i think ALL sane beliefs and ideologies will tell you to defend yourself, if not, it must be a serious problem in this ideology.

not all ideologies dictate this, Sinbad. though violent self-defense may make rational sense to many, there are some faiths which argue that it's not optional for us, insofar as what universal laws of morality dictate.

not every faith's conception of these laws are the same, of course. but plenty of folks who hold their belief systems to be completely sane would argue against self-defensive measures on any kind.

Christ's teachings and example point to this, as do Buddhist and Jain ethics.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Holy war = harb-u-muqadasah
Jihad = struggle (both internal and external)

Jihad can mean an internal struggle to be a better Muslim (the greater jihad) and it can also mean fighting to defend the ummah and to defend nonMuslims who are living in areas under control of Muslims or those nonMuslims who have some sort of treaty/contract/whatnot with Muslims. Fighting in defense is not a holy war- there is nothing in Islam that says you can fight against nonMuslims just because they are nonMuslims. There are also limited places on phsyical jihad, like the how noncombatants/civilians can not be harmed, that you have to be just and not violate human rights, it has to respect religious freedom (meaning you can't fight to force Islam on another group), that if attempts to make peace are made you have to try to make peace...

Interesting...

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas Charter) begins thus:

In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah​

Introduction
Praise be unto Allah, to whom we resort for help, and whose forgiveness, guidance and support we seek; Allah bless the Prophet and grant him salvation, his companions and supporters, and to those who carried out his message and adopted his laws - everlasting prayers and salvation as long as the earth and heaven will last. Hereafter:


Article One says this:


Article One:

The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.


Article 13 begins thus:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

And goes on to say:

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.


So much for " that if attempts to make peace are made you have to try to make peace..."


Let it also be said that the overwhelming majority of strikes against Israel have been directed at civilians. Kids at dance clubs, in school buses, pizza shops, hospitals... plus nearly 10,000 qassam rockets without the hint of intent to strike any form of military installation.

So much for "like the how noncombatants/civilians can not be harmed, that you have to be just and not violate human rights"

Would it be fair to say that Hamas, in principle and action, is guilty of being bad muslims?

 

[sindbad5]

I am more inclined to call for the unconditional surrender of Hamas and complete demilitarization of the entire Gaza/West bank areas. But that's just me.

and ... ? what will be next ?

 

[sindbad5]

not all ideologies dictate this, Sinbad. though violent self-defense may make rational sense to many, there are some faiths which argue that it's not optional for us, insofar as what universal laws of morality dictate.

right, "violence" maybe not an option even in self-defense cases in some ideologies and religions, i understand that, i think there are other "mechanisms" these ideologies provide to face the aggression that probably sorted as non-violent, that also consider defense, right?

back to Palestine conflict, ayani, i'm interested to know your view.

 

[YmirGF]

and ... ? what will be next ?

That, my friend, would be up to the "Palestinians", wouldn't it?

 

[ayani]

back to Palestine conflict, ayani, i'm interested to know your view.

i don't blame Israel for being very weary and deeply suspicious of Hamas, and doing their best to fight and weaken them. i don't blame the Palestinian people for putting their trust and faith in Hamas, and looking to them as their saviors and advocates.

ultimately, the conflict goes back to what the Bible says about this land, and the peoples living there. the Jewish perspective is to recognize that land as God-given and legally owned, while the Palestinians recognize that land as theirs, and stolen. the Palestinians tend to understand their political and social position and their Islamic faith as deeply connected, and in opposition to the Jewish worldview.

i do not believe that there is hope for peace. no human being or human government can achieve peace there. it will take an act of Messianic intervention to sift and sort and bring peace to the Middle East.

 

[Sahar]

In a hall crowded with conservative Sunni Muslim sheikhs and scholars, in a hotel close to Istanbul's Ataturk Airport speaker after speaker called for jihad against Israel in support of Hamas.

Yes, there is not anything new about this. The problem is how to turn words into actions.