You see it as a problem, rather than a crisis?
Okay.
Neither word is particularly meaningful in any case, so you can define them as you will, I guess.
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Climate vulnerable in the Global South demand COP26 action
- Thread starter Truthseeker
- Start date
You see it as a problem, rather than a crisis?
Okay.
Neither word is particularly meaningful in any case, so you can define them as you will, I guess.
exchemist
Veteran Member
But that's as far as anyone can get. A nation state is sovereign. There is no body on Earth that can force a nation state to do something, short of threats from a more powerful one of economic sanctions or war - which obviously would destroy the spirit of cooperation that has been created with so much effort.
The only tool, in the end, is to extract commitments and then hold countries to them in the forum of world opinion, so that their leaders feel they must stick to their promises or be shamed by world opinion. That's how the UN works, for example.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
What difference does it make in this discussion if you're right? What does this have to do with the issue of climate change?
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's no point arguing. You are just one person, and I don't have the time, and I predict that no matter what evidence I show you will have a counterpoint. That's what happens when the internet is full of misinformation.
I may be be wrong about you getting misinformation on the internet, but my experience here is that there is constant stubborn arguing here. I prefer not to endlessly argue, and like I said I don't have the time. I prefer points of agreement with people.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I am a Baha'i and I see all that as inadequate for our time. But this inadequate way of doing things will lead to disaster in the end, I firmly predict, and out of the chaos world government will be seen as a necessity at some point.
I know you will disagree with this and I am used to people seeing world government as either impossible or a tyrant government. Sovereignty needs to be ceded to some extent. The international government needs to be only be sovereign over matters that are international in nature. The national government can take of affairs that are internal in nature, except when that government mistreats their own citizens. Then the international order should intervene.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Yes, I find this Baha'i world government stuff tedious, quite impractical, and faintly sinister, to be honest. Best keep it to yourself, I think, apart from DIR threads.
Something like what was done in post war Europe, Japan and S. Korea may be needed? Those investments in building technology and infrastructure went really well. Not sure why that model was never replicated after that....
exchemist
Veteran Member
Why do you feel the need to patronise this woman, Trump-style? She is the same age as my son, both of whom are 18 and thus adults. She knows a great deal more about this topic than you do. And what is more, it is her generation and my son's that will have to deal with climate change after you and I are long dead.
I would agree her public campaigning style is very unforgiving and does not recognise the practical difficulties of moving as fast as she would like. But the nature of campaigning is often to oversimplify and dramatise, in order to get media attention - something which she is extremely good at. Although I can sometimes find her statements annoyingly simplistic, or unhelpfully apocalyptic, the way I look at her is that she performs the role of a gadfly. Such people have a place in public debate.
But please cut the "confused little girl" crap. If you called my son a "little boy", you would be asking for punch in the mouth.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
The latest:
UN climate negotiations enter final day as differences remain
UN climate talks are heading towards a rocky conclusion after two weeks of fraught debate failed to resolve several key disputes, as the UN chief called on world leaders to speed up and agree on a deal to prevent “climate catastrophe”.
“There is still a lot more work to be done. The world is watching us,” Alok Sharma, Britain’s president of the COP26 summit, told reporters on Thursday about the state of negotiations in the Scottish city of Glasgow.
The COP26 conference set out with a core aim: to keep alive the 2015 Paris Agreement’s aspirational target to cap global warming at 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 Fahrenheit) above pre-industrial levels and avoid the worst effects of climate change.
But under countries’ current pledges to cut emissions this decade, researchers say the world would hit levels of global warming far beyond that limit, unleashing catastrophic sea level rises, floods and droughts.
While there is little hope that new promises will appear on Friday, the final day of talks to bridge that gap, as negotiators are attempting to impose new requirements that could force countries to hike their pledges in future, hopefully fast enough to keep the 1.5C goal within reach.
...A final deal will require the unanimous consent of the nearly 200 countries that signed the 2015 Paris Agreement.
That final sentence is a big part of the problem.
UN climate negotiations enter final day as differences remain
UN climate talks are heading towards a rocky conclusion after two weeks of fraught debate failed to resolve several key disputes, as the UN chief called on world leaders to speed up and agree on a deal to prevent “climate catastrophe”.
“There is still a lot more work to be done. The world is watching us,” Alok Sharma, Britain’s president of the COP26 summit, told reporters on Thursday about the state of negotiations in the Scottish city of Glasgow.
The COP26 conference set out with a core aim: to keep alive the 2015 Paris Agreement’s aspirational target to cap global warming at 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 Fahrenheit) above pre-industrial levels and avoid the worst effects of climate change.
But under countries’ current pledges to cut emissions this decade, researchers say the world would hit levels of global warming far beyond that limit, unleashing catastrophic sea level rises, floods and droughts.
While there is little hope that new promises will appear on Friday, the final day of talks to bridge that gap, as negotiators are attempting to impose new requirements that could force countries to hike their pledges in future, hopefully fast enough to keep the 1.5C goal within reach.
...A final deal will require the unanimous consent of the nearly 200 countries that signed the 2015 Paris Agreement.
That final sentence is a big part of the problem.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Why do you feel the need to patronise this woman, Trump-style? She is the same age as my son, both of whom are 18 and thus adults. She knows a great deal more about this topic than you do. And what is more, it is her generation and my son's that will have to deal with climate change after you and I are long dead.
I would agree her public campaigning style is very unforgiving and does not recognise the practical difficulties of moving as fast as she would like. But the nature of campaigning is often to oversimplify and dramatise, in order to get media attention - something which she is extremely good at. Although I can sometimes find her statements annoyingly simplistic, or unhelpfully apocalyptic, the way I look at her is that she performs the role of a gadfly. Such people have a place in public debate.
But please cut the "confused little girl" crap. If you called my son a "little boy", you would be asking for punch in the mouth.
No. She is brainwashed by activism and cannot think on her own on the matter. I don't view her as an adult because she was never acted like one. Maybe some day, but people like that are not actually grown up until they start thinking and acting for themselves.
She has no special education that I can find on the matter aside from honorary degrees based on promotion of the subject of climate so her knowledge apparently is no more greater or less than any lay person on climatology.
As for your son I'd encourage a fair stint in the military as a proper fighting man able to take care of himself. I like that.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
I don't think you understand what you're saying, but I don't assume you're the clueless instrument of a grand world-spanning conspiracy because of that.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
It's really convenient that Ms. Thunberg is not a member of this forum, and therefore can be insulted, mocked, and attacked at leisure without falling afoul of the rules against personal attacks and trolling, isn't it.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I saw a documentary about her on TV and she was definitely thinking on her own. She is going around learning from experts on climate change. Of course, she's not on the same level of understanding about climate change as these experts. She's soaking it all up. However, I would say that her understanding of the politics of climate change right now is limited.
Recently on twitter I saw an exposition by her on the agricultural and animal aspect of climate change and sustainability that was very cogent and aligns with my understanding.
Now I see that what you aim is to question her understanding. You are climate change denier. However, as as I have seen her say, it is not about her, it is about the science. Look at the science, not her.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The science has well established there's been an overall global warming from actual measurements. Maybe consider getting a subscription to Scientific American.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Invite her, but it's likely the poor emotional dear will get banned.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
It didn't end well at all at COP26: Things look really bad right now. The UN Secretary-General is with us, but he is powerless except for his voice:
At COP26, nations strike climate deal that falls short
At COP26, nations strike climate deal that falls short