Clinton: Half of Trump supporters are in 'basket of deplorables'

[fantome profane]

Really? I'm surprised. I'm curious what others think. I believe my scenario would definitely lead to the same level of distrust and accusations. It would be even worse during the Cold War, when fears of Communism were so high.

Start a new thread with a poll, find out what others think of your scenario.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let's change the scenario.

- Obama is white.
- His last name is Russian.
- His father was Russian and was a leader in the Communist party.
- Obama lived several years outside of the U.S.
- Obama's ideology is very liberal, with socialist tendencies, which can sometimes "sound" Communist.

Interesting 'parallel.' So tell us, just how does ...

Obama's ideology "sound" Islamic?​

 

[Scott C.]

Interesting 'parallel.' So tell us, just how does ...

Obama's ideology "sound" Islamic?​

I'm not saying it sounds Islamic to me. But it sounds Islamic to some. I suppose it's because he shows more sympathy towards Islamic people's grievances against the U.S., than many want to accept. They feel he leans towards their point of view and goes soft on terrorism. I'm not trying to defend any anti-Obama positions. I'm simply saying that I don't buy the argument that the birther, anti-Muslim sentiments are about race.

 

[metis]

I'm simply saying that I don't buy the argument that the birther, anti-Muslim sentiments are about race.

It's about bigotry, and Trump spews it all the time as even Paul Ryan has been chagrined about. And it's a message that, according to polls, Republicans like to hear, with roughly 60% of them believing Obama wasn't born in the U.S., and around another 60% believing that Obama is a Muslim.

What's both all too believable and also pathetic at the same time is how many Republicans just refuse to do any simple homework on this, and I have to believe that many of them just don't care about such bigotry being told to them.

 

[Underhill]

Really? I'm surprised. I'm curious what others think. I believe my scenario would definitely lead to the same level of distrust and accusations. It would be even worse during the Cold War, when fears of Communism were so high.

I'm trying to figure out your point. So you think republicans aren't racist, just a bunch of terrified children?

If you are trying to make the point that Americans distrust Russians as much as black people I guess that might be valid. It doesn't change the fact that distrusting someone based upon skin color or religion alone is deplorable.

 

[Scott C.]

I'm trying to figure out your point. So you think republicans aren't racist, just a bunch of terrified children?

If you are trying to make the point that Americans distrust Russians as much as black people I guess that might be valid. It doesn't change the fact that distrusting someone based upon skin color or religion alone is deplorable.

Some Americans distrust Muslims as much as they do Russians. My only point is that neither of these distrusts is based on skin color. It's based on nationality, political views, and religion. Is it good to be a religious bigot? Of course not. The reason I jumped in here is because I get annoyed how people are so quick to see racism where it doesn't necessarily exist.

 

[Underhill]

Some Americans distrust Muslims as much as they do Russians. My only point is that neither of these distrusts is based on skin color. It's based on nationality, political views, and religion. Is it good to be a religious bigot? Of course not. The reason I jumped in here is because I get annoyed how people are so quick to see racism where it doesn't necessarily exist.

It doesn't matter if it's racism, bias based upon religion or hatred because his name is funny. It is all the same thing. I don't see how you can't see that.

Disliking someone based upon these factors is all disgusting and splitting hairs over whether it is racism or bigoted behavior seems a bit silly. It's just wrong either way.

 

[Scott C.]

Disliking someone based upon these factors is all disgusting and splitting hairs over whether it is racism or bigoted behavior seems a bit silly. It's just wrong either way.

I hear over and over again that the birther/Muslim accusations are because "This is our first black President." It's worth my pointing out that that conclusion is incorrect. People may have other good or bad motivations, but it's not because "This is our first black President." If that point doesn't matter to you, that's OK with me.

 

[metis]

Some Americans distrust Muslims as much as they do Russians. My only point is that neither of these distrusts is based on skin color. It's based on nationality, political views, and religion. Is it good to be a religious bigot? Of course not. The reason I jumped in here is because I get annoyed how people are so quick to see racism where it doesn't necessarily exist.

A great many people today use the term "racism" to also cover bigotry against any nationality. Probably most educated people today believe there are no races in reality other than the human race. Words often evolve over time, and this is one that has with a great many people.

 

[columbus]

A great many people today use the term "racism" to also cover bigotry against any nationality. Probably most educated people today believe there are no races in reality other than the human race. Words often evolve over time, and this is one that has with a great many people.

Unfortunately this is true.
Now we don't really have a word that means bigotry against people due to their skin color and facial structure.
Similar to "rape". It used to mean forcible sexual violation. Now it could just mean somebody was too drunk to remember saying "Sure".
Tom

 

[columbus]

Implying that rape initiated through force and rape not involving physical force are not equally bad is pretty terrible, imo.

Lots of people think this. I don't.
I think rape at gun point(or other threat of violence) is worse, generally, than two drunk people having sex.
Tom

 

[Kartari]

Hi Scott,

I'm not saying it sounds Islamic to me. But it sounds Islamic to some. I suppose it's because he shows more sympathy towards Islamic people's grievances against the U.S., than many want to accept. They feel he leans towards their point of view and goes soft on terrorism. I'm not trying to defend any anti-Obama positions. I'm simply saying that I don't buy the argument that the birther, anti-Muslim sentiments are about race.

Perhaps not to you. But it sounds "Islamic" to a significant portion of the populace, the ignoramuses who see a man with dark skin and think the name "Barack Obama" together indicate he's not an American and probably a Muslim. And anyone who "sounds" un-American or Muslim must be up to no good. There's not a lot of brains behind the ignorant assertion, not a lot of understanding about even the basics of what Obama has done in reality.

Again, I'm not sure the figure "half" is accurate, but Clinton has quite accurately identified a significant portion of the American public. Personally, I think many of Trump's supporters are not as racist and bigoted as Trump, if at all, but rather simply watch too much Fox News (a.k.a. the Republican Propaganda Department) which is notorious for spinning conspiracy theories and other tales to reflect badly on Clinton and Democrats more broadly... I think the majority of his supporters hate Clinton far more than they like Trump as a result of this propaganda.

 

[fantome profane]

I'm not saying it sounds Islamic to me. But it sounds Islamic to some. I suppose it's because he shows more sympathy towards Islamic people's grievances against the U.S., than many want to accept. They feel he leans towards their point of view and goes soft on terrorism. I'm not trying to defend any anti-Obama positions. I'm simply saying that I don't buy the argument that the birther, anti-Muslim sentiments are about race.

Even so, the idea that is is a mix of anti-black and anti-Islamic bigotry does not make the birther movement any less deplorable. And it would not happen to a white Christian.

 

[Underhill]

Even so, the idea that is is a mix of anti-black and anti-Islamic bigotry does not make the birther movement any less deplorable. And it would not happen to a white Christian.

Yeah, white christians get investigations on top of investigation for decades.

 

[averageJOE]

 

[Revoltingest]

You conflate bigotry and 'nastiness' and then suggest the appearance of a moral equivalency between Clinton and Trump. Seriously?

Aye, that is horribly unfair.
(She's clearly worse.)

 

[columbus]

Again, I'm not sure the figure "half" is accurate, but Clinton has quite accurately identified a significant portion of the American public.

Fivethirtyeight.com has an interesting discussion on this subject, which has something resembling objective data.

In this week’s politics chat, we examine to what extent prejudice is driving support for Donald Trump. The transcript below has been lightly edited.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-of-trumps-supporters-really-are-deplorable/

Their conclusion is sorta like "it depends", but the discussion is interesting.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Let me clarify it all before my momentary wifi evaporates.....
One needn't be "deplorable" for supporting
either Hilda or Donald against the other.
But to actually believe in one of'm is.

 

[Acim]

In this situation, birthers would exist.

Definitely. I don't see how there could be doubt about it. I'm not sure how high the numbers would be, but given your scenario, I think it would be on the radar of anyone that pays close attention to political matters.

 

[Acim]

Now we don't really have a word that means bigotry against people due to their skin color and facial structure.

Racial prejudice would be the tame version, and racial intolerance would be the more extreme version.
Racism, would be at a level that plausibly includes bigotry, but clearly is going beyond that.