Combatting the culture of ignorance

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's too bad that academic performance isn't treated much the same as athletic performance.

I rather think it is ...in both, improvements are achieved through application, practice and the correct training.

raw intelligence can be thought of as the head start you get .

 

[AnnaCzereda]

This article is a bit hysterical in my opinion. Most people are stupid and mediocre. It has always been like that but perhaps we have higher expectations now. It's not only about the US. In my country, the polls are made every year about the reading habits of the Poles and the results are alarming. People either don't want to or don't have the time to read. When I was in my primary school, most kids were just mediocre and didn't want to learn. Of course, when I progressed further in my education and chose better schools, then the university, the situation changed. I remember being called a dweeb or something similar to that in my primary school. Devoting your time to studying at the expense of play and social life was frowned upon.

But though I finished the university, there are subjects in which I would prove myself an idiot if asked a question. I'm very poor in Geography, I don't know the exact location on the map of many cities and countries. I don't even know where some islands are located. The thing is that later on in education system the knowledge becomes specialized. It starts in high school and at the university you just study one subject that interests you and gain expertise in it at the cost of more general knowledge.

As for the tabloidization of newspapers and the TV, they simply cater to the general audience, which is not very intelligent. It's hard to point one culprit. The government, the stupid laws and bureaucracy are certainly to blame but also the incompetent teachers, lazy and ignorant students and the parents who don't know how to motivate them.

 

[Sunstone]

This article is a bit hysterical in my opinion. Most people are stupid and mediocre. It has always been like that...

I think the Chinese, the Jews, the Japanese, and certain other groups have pretty much demonstrated by example that creating a culture which encourages learning, scholarship, and academic excellence pays off. America's (and perhaps Poland's) problem isn't dumb people, it's dumbed down people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

'Americans feel entitled' is always a phrase that makes me feel uneasy. It smacks of traditionalist-style propaganda which cites the 'old days' as full of better people with the same opportunities, when reality for many folks who don't succeed is that they want to work hard but don't have the opportunity, for many different reasons. So it becomes just a ground of blame gaming that doesn't actually help anything.

Me, yes, I do feel entitled to a decent paying job. I do feel entitled to basic minimum needs. I do feel entitled to further my education. I do feel entitled to a doctor.
And when work fails to provide these things, or if work is difficult to find, yes, I'm going to complain.

I think the Chinese, the Jews, the Japanese, and certain other groups have pretty much demonstrated by example that creating a culture which encourages learning, scholarship, and academic excellence pays off. America's (and perhaps Poland's) problem isn't dumb people, it's dumbed down people.

I can't say much about the Chinese or Jews, but with the Japanese the academic expectations are just too high, so high that it's not unheard of for children to kill themselves rather than bring their families the shame of themselves (the individual) having not performed to expectations. To me, that is just too high of an expectation, even though I have a deep admiration of Japanese culture and their dedication to discipline.

 

[psychoslice]

I think Americans value hard work over smarts.

True, but its usually the so called smarts that produces the jobs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

True, but its usually the so called smarts that produces the jobs.

Not really. Anymore, it's because you came from a family that has wealth. Small businesses produce only a few jobs. Those who were born into wealth, such as Trump, the Waltons, or the Rockefellers, they did nothing more than being born into an already ultra-wealthy family that established a name before they came along. Bill Gates leap-frogged off of Steven Jobs and Ronald Wayne. There are basically two myths to the idea you speak of, and that is that rich people are smarter than the rest of us, and that the wealthy are the job creators. The mega-corporations produce most jobs in America now, but so very many of them inherited their position. And many of our wealthiest, such as professional athletes, movie stars, and high-profile authors, they create very few to no jobs at all. Even without Micheal Jordon, the NBA would still make millions, without Tom Cruise Hollywood would still rake in millions, and Simon & Schuster existed before Stephen King and would exist without him.

 

[icehorse]

Hey Shadow Wolf,

I agree that the wealthy are not really job creators (a rare point of agreement ).

The thing I worry about is how our middle class will compete in the world economy. So for whatever reasons that we're experiencing a "culture of ignorance", having a relatively ignorant middle class is going to hurt us in the world-wide business market.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hey Shadow Wolf,

I agree that the wealthy are not really job creators (a rare point of agreement ).

The thing I worry about is how our middle class will compete in the world economy. So for whatever reasons that we're experiencing a "culture of ignorance", having a relatively ignorant middle class is going to hurt us in the world-wide business market.

A culture of ignorance is great for manufacturing, warehouses, and such, but the issue with that is many of those jobs are gone, and keep getting sent away. Without a culture of ignorance, we could lead in science and technology, but this nation as a whole is just not being adequately educated for such fields. We actually have a special visa program just to bring scientists and other such professions here because our own aren't filling those positions because they don't have the education to fill them.

 

[icehorse]

Not to be nostalgic, but back in the Eisenhower days we had a culture that valued science and technology very highly. We made the rich pay their fair share of taxes, and we had entitlement programs to promote what we'd now call STEM careers. We also had strong programs to subsidize things like the interstate highway system. These days the GOP would probably call Ike a "socialist".

So how can we get that science and tech. friendly culture back?

 

[Revoltingest]

Not to be nostalgic, but back in the Eisenhower days we had a culture that valued science and technology very highly. We made the rich pay their fair share of taxes, and we had entitlement programs to promote what we'd now call STEM careers. We also had strong programs to subsidize things like the interstate highway system. These days the GOP would probably call Ike a "socialist".

You'll have to back up this claim about the rich & taxes.
Marginal rates were much higher then, but there were far better dodges to avoid them.
Was the average rate they paid really that much higher?

I ask because there are a lot of myths & misconceptions about taxation.
I lived thru the Reagan rate reduction, & saw the value of tax deductions fall.
Another potential myth....
People think Canuckistanian taxes are much higher than here.
But when Wirey & I compared all our tax bills, they were quite comparable.

So how can we get that science and tech. friendly culture back?

One way is indirect....
Secondary schools have gutted practical courses, eg, shop, auto mechanics.
These programs gave valuable tech skills to non-college tracked students.
I urge returning to them.
They can inspire more interest in science because the kids see a practical application.
It's not a solution to the problem....just something good for education & the economy.

 

[icehorse]

On backing up the rich and taxes claim: Here's a start, he covers many interesting topics, but starting around the 2:00 mark he has some very useful graphs, some of which speak to your question about taxes and the rich:

Is this sufficient, or do you need more data?

 

[Revoltingest]

On backing up the rich and taxes claim: Here's a start, he covers many interesting topics, but starting around the 2:00 mark he has some very useful graphs, some of which speak to your question about taxes and the rich:

Is this sufficient, or do you need more data?

I don't know yet....I have to wait until circumstances are such that I can watch the video.
But I appreciate the link.

 

[bobhikes]

In the U.S. (at least), ignorance is often honored, and intellectualism is often dismissed:

http://www.sott.net/article/313177-...tellectualism-and-the-dumbing-down-of-America

Here's one way we could combat this disastrous trend:

The bad teacher says: “You got an ‘A’ Susie, you’re so smart!”
The good teacher says: “You got an ‘A’ Susie, your hard work paid off!”

Creating a positive worldview starts early.

The system is rigged against you.
Your life, humans, the earth, the solar system, the universe will all eventually be completely destroyed.
There is no right religion or caring God.
Money rules and I am not rich or will ever be rich.
I can be much happier not knowing.

Why would I want to be an intellect? Is the goal to be smart and/or rich or to be happy in this short life. Ignorance allows me to be happy with what I already have. You tube teaches that over and over again.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So how can we get that science and tech. friendly culture back?

I'm all for having a much stronger emphasis on skill trade in schools, incorporating robotics and computers, and making science fun and cool. Hack-and-slash at the education red-tape, do away with most of the testing, and teach students how to critically think about information they are presented with, rather than passively taking it in so they can pass a test. Teach them woodworking, welding, auto-mechanics, and other useful skills that involve applied knowledge and thinking skills.
I'd also like to see more in terms of apprenticeships and on-the-job training.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Wouldn't call it ignorance is to broad a description a surgeon ignorant to law , and both ignorant to atomic physics ignorance on so many levels from a commah to bad manners , is to broad a term to achieve the goals imho.
Maybe parent , teacher etiquettes techniques are to blame
Peas & Cues that just trying to set an ideal .
Most these kids born out of ignorance
Good luck with this , this fine tuning imho individual up to mum and dad .

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I think the U.S. has a healthy history of honoring the value of real world practical skills over intellectualism, the Wright brothers were high school drop-outs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think the U.S. has a healthy history of honoring the value of real world practical skills over intellectualism, the Wright brothers were high school drop-outs.

Do you have an inkling of a clue as to how much intellectualism and theory and brain power was needed to build their air craft? And then there is the military, which has pretty much laid the ground work for our modern technology and even many consumer goods. If you value "real world practical skills over intellectualism," then unhook your internet and throw away your computer.

 

[Kueid]

Can't we blend the two (or more) cultures instead?

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Do you have an inkling of a clue as to how much intellectualism and theory and brain power was needed to build their air craft? And then there is the military, which has pretty much laid the ground work for our modern technology and even many consumer goods. If you value "real world practical skills over intellectualism," then unhook your internet and throw away your computer.

Think it was more about having the guts to get in ya contraption and see if ya can get her going fast enough to get it off the ground not like they discovered combustion or even the first aircraft engine.
Lots perished trying to get thier heap to fly is some funny old clips

 

[Revoltingest]

Think it was more about having the guts to get in ya contraption and see if ya can get her going fast enough to get it off the ground not like they discovered combustion or even the first aircraft engine.
Lots perished trying to get thier heap to fly is some funny old clips

Actually, the Wright Bros had a very sophisticated experimental & development program.
And they did design their own engine. Others at the time had too low a power to weight ratio.
Their achievement was an impressive one (to this former aerospace engineer & aircraft engine collector).