Comey's Testimony

[Nakosis]

Trump is also the President of the United States. He is no longer just a businessman. If he is responsible enough to be given the office, then he is also responsible for his actions. You cannot have it both ways.

Like firing the guy who should have had your back? Sure.

You can claim that Comey should have acted differently. But you cannot claim that Comey's inaction absolves Trump's inappropriate behavior. Do you think it does?

I think it explains to. The results of relying on Comey, Trump is going to have to deal with like any other employer.

What? Why not? The person who fires someone is in the best position to know why they fired that person. Are you suggesting that employers routinely lie about why they fire people? This makes no sense.

Ok, it makes no sense but that is usually the way it works out. Usually it's because they just don't like the guy. Regardless they still feel the need to justify it so create some plausible excuse.

Furthermore, are you saying that Trump is lying about the reasons he has given for firing Comey? Again, this makes no sense. Claiming the Russian investigation as a reason for firing Comey was extremely damaging for Trump; it would have been much better for him to not say that, so there's no reason for him to have said it if it wasn't true. Furthermore, you seem to imply that you are ok with the idea that Trump lied about the reasons for firing Comey. Why is that ok?

What I suspect is they didn't like each other. However you don't usually go around saying you fired someone because you think they're an ***.

I don't see how this is relevant.

I think the standard folks are trying to judge Trump by is unrealistic for anyone other than Gandhi or Jesus.

 

[Falvlun]

I thought Comey came off just as expected: prepared, relaxed, confident, knowledgeable (I envy his memory), and unflappable. What I didn't expect, not having seen Senator John McCain for quite some time, is how addled he's become. Arizona voters would have done the guy and the nation a favor by retiring him years ago.

.

Holy crap, McCain was bad. His questioning is not in my OP transcript-- maybe they cut it out out of mercy.

For those who didn't hear it:
McCain could not understand why Comey could state that there wasn't sufficient evidence to bring a suit against Clinton (in regards to the email investigation concluded in July) but could not state the same of Trump (in regards to the Russian investigation.)

McCain seemed to think that because Clinton was also involved in the 2016 campaign, she should also be under investigation for Russian collusion, and therefore, Comey shouldn't have said that there wasn't enough evidence to press charges against Clinton.

The explanation, of course, is that these are two separate investigations, and the Clinton email investigation is concluded. Comey's statements regarding Clinton are about that investigation, not the Russian one. McCain literally could not understand this.

 

[Nakosis]

@Nakosis
Here's Comey's response to Sen. Feinstein's question regarding why he didn't stop the inappropriate Flynn conversation:


And Rubio:

Comey admits he showed weakness. However, it does seem that the level of inappropriateness was simply stunning, like on the order of a doctor asking why a amputee can't just grow back his limb. It was literally mind-numbingly dumb... and scary, because of the possible repercussions and ramifications.

I imagine it does seems stunning for folks who don't see this sort of thing all the time. I guess playing the victim works for Comey. Probably no other option for Comey to retain some credibility. "I was weak and Trump was so intimidating is his awesomeness." I don't buy it from a veteran of 30 years, but whatever works.

 

[Falvlun]

Like firing the guy who should have had your back? Sure.

I think it explains to. The results of relying on Comey, Trump is going to have to deal with like any other employer.

Firing someone for your mistake is not taking responsibility for your behavior.

I was also responding more to your reaction, not Trump's: you do not seem to hold Trump accountable in any way. That is mind-boggling.

Ok, it makes no sense but that is usually the way it works out. Usually it's because they just don't like the guy. Regardless they still feel the need to justify it so create some plausible excuse.

What I suspect is they didn't like each other. However you don't usually go around saying you fired someone because you think they're an ***.

I don't think that's how it usually works at all. I also don't think that's how it ought to work between the President and the Director of the FBI.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to make up explanations for Comey's firing (he didn't tell Trump he was being inappropriate, Trump just didn't like him), when we already have Trump's explanations. Do you really think Trump is the sort of person who wouldn't tell us that he just didn't like a guy?

I think the standard folks are trying to judge Trump by is unrealistic for anyone other than Gandhi or Jesus.

No. The standards for Trump have been lowered so much, we are literally in the "well, at least he hasn't nuked anyone yet" stage. I really don't see how you can claim that a three time married man, with known affairs and sexual misconduct, with evident lying, with shady business dealings, with clear conflicts of interest and no blind trust, is somehow being held to a crazy high standard.

 

[Falvlun]

I imagine it does seems stunning for folks who don't see this sort of thing all the time. I guess playing the victim works for Comey. Probably no other option for Comey to retain some credibility. "I was weak and Trump was so intimidating is his awesomeness." I don't buy it from a veteran of 30 years, but whatever works.

I think the fact that he is so experienced and respected lends weight to the fact that this was such an unexpected, egregious breech of propriety.

 

[Nakosis]

Firing someone for your mistake is not taking responsibility for your behavior.

Your taking responsibility by correcting the situation. Everyone makes mistakes. What's important is how you deal with them. Trump's mistake was assuming he could trust Comey. So replace him wit hsomeone you can trust.

I was also responding more to your reaction, not Trump's: you do not seem to hold Trump accountable in any way. That is mind-boggling.

You want to punish him, pull out his toe nails, beat him severely for a mistake? You make a mistake, take steps to correct the situation. That's accountability.

I don't think that's how it usually works at all. I also don't think that's how it ought to work between the President and the Director of the FBI.

I know that's the way it works. Constantly in business. I understand this is something most folks aren't privy to.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to make up explanations for Comey's firing (he didn't tell Trump he was being inappropriate, Trump just didn't like him), when we already have Trump's explanations. Do you really think Trump is the sort of person who wouldn't tell us that he just didn't like a guy?

I think that's the nature of most people. Most folks don't want to be rude about it.

No. The standards for Trump have been lowered so much, we are literally in the "well, at least he hasn't nuked anyone yet" stage. I really don't see how you can claim that a three time married man, with known affairs and sexual misconduct, with evident lying, with shady business dealings, with clear conflicts of interest and no blind trust, is somehow being held to a crazy high standard.

Not crazy high, just unrealistic

 

[Nakosis]

I think the fact that he is so experienced and respected lends weight to the fact that this was such an unexpected, egregious breech of propriety.

And he did nothing to correct Trump.

 

[Nietzsche]

And he did nothing to correct Trump.

I'm sorry but he ran for ****ing election, I expect the orange son of a ***** to do a little homework.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm sorry but he ran for ****ing election, I expect the orange son of a ***** to do a little homework.

Thank you for your completely unbiased opinion.

You know as POTUS he can shut down any FBI investigation. Perhaps not politically smart but there's nothing illegal about it.

Also he can fire the director of the FBI for whatever reasons of his choosing.

Next time maybe the Democrats can put up someone who could actually get elected? Learn from your mistake, move forward. Do a better job next time.

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Have you ever told your boss to put an instruction in writing... you would be shown the way out faster than you could say fired.

Yes I have on several occasions, with the explanation that i am an Engineer/Technician, and do not have the same mind process as a Management trained person, therefore 'in writing' will give me a better ability to follow said instructions point by point .....

 

[fantome profane]

You've a guy who's been in office a few months vs a a guy who been on the job for thirty years. Experience counts for something. I occasionally get a new boss. It'd be unrealistic to expect them to know the procedures of the company.

I.....don't......care.

Before the election I said over and over again that Trump does not have the experience, he does not have the temperament, and he does not have the intelligence to do the job. But the American idiots elected him. Now he is President, and you want to excuse his stupidity because he does not have the experience, temperament or intellignece. You want to sy he is not responsible for his actions because he is just that stupid. But he is President.

What will you say when he destroys the economy, destroys the environment, destroys the healthcare system. Will you excuse that because he is just a little bitty baby President that doesn't know any better? When will you start holding him accountable for his actions?

 

[Falvlun]

Your taking responsibility by correcting the situation. Everyone makes mistakes. What's important is how you deal with them. Trump's mistake was assuming he could trust Comey. So replace him wit hsomeone you can trust.

You want to punish him, pull out his toe nails, beat him severely for a mistake? You make a mistake, take steps to correct the situation. That's accountability.

You are basing this all on the assumption that Trump fired Comey because Comey didn't tell him (Trump) that it was wrong to ask him (Comey) to drop the Flynn investigation.

There is zero evidence for this.

Trump has not even acknowledged that he made a mistake. He, in fact, has denied that such a conversation even took place. So, he fired a guy for not telling him a conversation that never took place was inappropriate?

I have not indicated that toenails should be pulled. I think that Trump ought to take responsibility for his actions, and I think that we ought to hold Trump accountable, both notions which you seem to be very resistant to. Furthermore, when mistakes are criminal in nature, which Trump's actions may be if it's deemed obstruction of justice, then generally simply apologizing (or firing people who didn't tell you it was illegal) isn't considered adequate recompense.

I know that's the way it works. Constantly in business. I understand this is something most folks aren't privy to.

I think you may have worked for some bad businesses. All firings that I've experienced either involved unacceptable work or company downsizing.

And this doesn't address why you think it's ok for the President to fire the FBI director in the middle of a very important investigation just because he doesn't like him.

And it's still an inevidenced claim, while ignoring the reasons that were actually given.

I think that's the nature of most people. Most folks don't want to be rude about it.

We aren't talking about most people. We are talking about Trump. Does he strike you as a guy who is concerned about being rude to people?

Not crazy high, just unrealistic

It is unrealistic to expect marital fidelity?

It is unrealistic to expect people to not molest people?

It is unrealistic to expect people not to lie about easily verified things?

It is not realistic to be an honest businessman?

It is not realistic to put your companies in a blind trust like every other President ever?

These seem like pretty normal, basic requirements to me.

 

[Callisto]

And he did nothing to correct Trump.

Please stop making excuses for Trump's corrupt nature. If he remains in the dark about anything it's due to his own willful ignorance. Throughout the election process, into inauguration and beyond, he is surrounded by individuals who groom him for the position. They inform him of what's done, why it's done, how it's done. He chooses to go his own way regardless of what he's advised. Presidential candidates receive confidential briefings well before a nominee is determined, they're educated on the importance of security and protocol. They're surrounded by a herd of consultants and advisors whose jobs are to advise the candidate of limits and propriety in advance and on the fly on all matters surrounding the presidency. Trump choosing not to care to think much less learn, preferring to do things his own way, is exactly why his WH staff is in constant disarray as they continually race to put out the fires he sets one after another. He makes a mess, they race to control the damage and then he says something completely different from what they just said.

He knew enough about what would appear appropriate vs. inappropriate when Hillary Clinton's emails were under investigation or when Bill Clinton openly chatted with Loretta Lynch yet thinks everyone is too stupid to note his kicking high-level advisors out of the room screams mafia don. High-level advisers who tried to linger behind knowing it was suspicious, who are as much in the loop about the FBI as he (if not more, since it's their jobs to counsel the newbie POTUS).

He's new and doesn't know better? That's a steaming pile of poo.

 

[Revoltingest]

Guy obviously wasn't used to dealing with insanity. I never know quite how to respond when I'm suddenly accosted by a lunatic either.

Were you a landlord, you'd quickly learn.
One should be a good shot & an even better diplomat/counselor.

Note:
Do not interpret the above as a suggestion that you become a landlord.
I'd never wish that upon you.

 

[Grumpuss]

Transcript

There's a lot to unpack in there.

Comey's response regarding the Russian Investigation was refreshingly clear:

What aspects particularly struck you in his testimony? Anything we didn't know, or anything suspected that was confirmed?

I wouldn't trust Comey not to pee on his own shoes at the urinal, much less give honest testimony.

This is a guy who Democrats hated with a passion and even directly blamed for the loss of Clinton in the 2016 election, with his meddling and bizarre announcements. He fuzzily navigated through the Trump transition and Russia investigation and could've been fired for incompetence numerous times before the hammer did fall. But now people on the Left are giddy to believe anything he says, simply because of the longshot of an impeachment hearing? I understand if people dislike Trump, but theses machinations are ripping the country apart.

There was a reason that Ford pardoned Nixon. Many people hated the move at the time, but in the end, it may've been the wisest thing Ford ever did as president. The country needs to heal. The country needs better leaders. We have to get rid of people like Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Weiner, Mark Sanford, etc. Listening to the testimony of James Comey like it's gospel is disgusting.

 

[Nakosis]

Please stop making excuses for Trump's corrupt nature. If he remains in the dark about anything it's due to his own willful ignorance. Throughout the election process, into inauguration and beyond, he is surrounded by individuals who groom him for the position. They inform him of what's done, why it's done, how it's done. He chooses to go his own way regardless of what he's advised. Presidential candidates receive confidential briefings well before a nominee is determined, they're educated on the importance of security and protocol. They're surrounded by a herd of consultants and advisors whose jobs are to advise the candidate of limits and propriety in advance and on the fly on all matters surrounding the presidency. Trump choosing not to care to think much less learn, preferring to do things his own way, is exactly why his WH staff is in constant disarray as they continually race to put out the fires he sets one after another. He makes a mess, they race to control the damage and then he says something completely different from what they just said.

He knew enough about what would appear appropriate vs. inappropriate when Hillary Clinton's emails were under investigation or when Bill Clinton openly chatted with Loretta Lynch yet thinks everyone is too stupid to note his kicking high-level advisors out of the room screams mafia don. High-level advisers who tried to linger behind knowing it was suspicious, who are as much in the loop about the FBI as he (if not more, since it's their jobs to counsel the newbie POTUS).

He's new and doesn't know better? That's a steaming pile of poo.

I'm impressed by your certainty, but I have to rely on the reality of my business experience.

 

[Callisto]

I'm impressed by your certainty, but I have to rely on the reality of my business experience.

Which appears to be irrelevant to the actuality of the presidency and that Trump would not have been left in the dark on protocol by an entire staff at his disposal for months on end even before being inaugurated.

 

[Falvlun]

And he did nothing to correct Trump.

That is incorrect. He told Sessions that from now on, he had to be between him and Trump, and explained to Rosenstein that the President's interactions with him were inappropriate. The DOJ then, needed to bring these concerns to Trump.

Comey also explains here and elsewhere that he didn't specifically mention the Flynn conversation since doing so could jeopardize possible investigations.

COLLINS: ...But my question to you is later on, upon reflection, did you go to anyone at the department of justice and ask them to call the white house counsel's office and explain that the president had to have a far better understanding and appreciation of his role vis-à-vis the FBI?

COMEY: In general, I did. I spoke to the attorney general and spoke to the new deputy attorney general, Mr. Rosenstein, when he took office and explained my serious concern about the way in which the president is interacting, especially with the FBI. As I said in my testimony, I told the attorney general, it can't happen that you get kicked out of the room and the president talks to me. Why didn't we raise the specific? It was of investigative interest to figure out, what just happened with the president's request? I wouldn't want to alert the white house it had happened until we figured out what we were going to do with it investigatively.

 

[Nakosis]

You are basing this all on the assumption that Trump fired Comey because Comey didn't tell him (Trump) that it was wrong to ask him (Comey) to drop the Flynn investigation.

There is zero evidence for this.

But there is years of experience in dealing with this sort of thing.

Trump has not even acknowledged that he made a mistake. He, in fact, has denied that such a conversation even took place. So, he fired a guy for not telling him a conversation that never took place was inappropriate?

Trump implied there were tapes about said conversation so I don't know what you are talking about.

I have not indicated that toenails should be pulled. I think that Trump ought to take responsibility for his actions, and I think that we ought to hold Trump accountable, both notions which you seem to be very resistant to. Furthermore, when mistakes are criminal in nature, which Trump's actions may be if it's deemed obstruction of justice, then generally simply apologizing (or firing people who didn't tell you it was illegal) isn't considered adequate recompense.

Something to take up after he's been convicted of a crime. I suppose we could continue to speculate though.

I think you may have worked for some bad businesses. All firings that I've experienced either involved unacceptable work or company downsizing.

Yes, that's the usual official explanation.

And this doesn't address why you think it's ok for the President to fire the FBI director in the middle of a very important investigation just because he doesn't like him.

I didn't make up the rules.

And it's still an inevidenced claim, while ignoring the reasons that were actually given.

I'm not ignoring them. I've just heard it all before.

We aren't talking about most people. We are talking about Trump. Does he strike you as a guy who is concerned about being rude to people?

I don'r know. Business it's just culture I suppose.

It is unrealistic to expect marital fidelity?

Yes

It is unrealistic to expect people to not molest people?

No

It is unrealistic to expect people not to lie about easily verified things?

Depends really. The lie, the circumstances. Can't really say yes or no for a generalized statement like this.

It is not realistic to be an honest businessman?

That's a personal decision. You choose to be honest or not. Dishonestly is pretty rampant. Kind of foolish to expect honesty in the business environment, unfortunately.

It is not realistic to put your companies in a blind trust like every other President ever?

I'd say it's unrealistic to assume a blind trust is a blind trust. Successful business folks are smarter than the average law maker. Whatever legal contract/laws you want to put in place, they'll find some way around it.

These seem like pretty normal, basic requirements to me.

Yes, I know. Idealism is endless.

 

[Nakosis]

Which appears to be irrelevant to the actuality of the presidency and that Trump would not have been left in the dark on protocol by an entire staff at his disposal for months on end even before being inaugurated.

Sorry, I've no expectation of defeating your certainty.