Coming out as creationists: fear.

[Shadow Wolf]

Around here, you can reasonably assume most people you will meet are Creationists. They may have a "persecution complex" and insist the world is set against them, but it's not.
You'll actually get more of a response if you come out as not believing in any sort of god and deny Creationism/ID.

 

[ChristineM]

I like the dictionary definition.

theory
ˈθɪəri/
noun

1. a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
   "Darwin's theory of evolution"
   synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presumption, presupposition, notion, guess, hunch, feeling, suspicion; More
   
   • a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
     "a theory of education"
   • an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
     "my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"

Funny how science has a different meaning of the word.

I can't imagine why.

Im sure you can imagine why but are afraid to come out

 

[Kenny]

I'm not sure "fear" is the right word. Perhaps "I know I can't discuss civilly the subject so why bother" would be a better definition.

 

[Father Heathen]

How embarrassing.

 

[Father Heathen]

I like the dictionary definition.

theory
ˈθɪəri/
noun

1. a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
   "Darwin's theory of evolution"
   synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presumption, presupposition, notion, guess, hunch, feeling, suspicion; More
   
   • a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
     "a theory of education"
   • an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
     "my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"

Funny how science has a different meaning of the word.

I can't imagine why.

It's so adorable when people act all smug and cocksure in their willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.

Scientific theory - Wikipedia

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Well...at least in my country I have the impression that there are people out there (lay, ecclesiastical...it doesn't matter...) who believe in Creationism, but are too afraid of admitting it publicly, out of fear of being ridiculed.

Same thing probably applies to people who believe the Earth is flat, and for the same reasons.

 

[Skwim]

How embarrassing.

Isn't it though, even though I haven't a darn thing to do with the beliefs of others. Guess it's one of those odd national pride things.

.

 

[Estro Felino]

Meh. If you truly believe something, fear of ridicule shouldn't bother you. That said, why do creationists need to "come out" in tge first place? What situation can you imagine where you need to tell anyone else about your personal beliefs outside a consentual discussion?

Good point…I started this thread because I was wondering how reliable surveys about the social acceptance of evolution are. That is…it’s obvious beliefs like the origin of mankind are very personal, and nobody in real life usually brings the subject up, but sometimes we are asked to answer surveys.. I’m pretty sure lots of Creationist members of RF will avoid replying to this thread, for the reasons I explained in the OP.

Besides the presence of public shaming in the media, in TV shows, is undeniable.

I'm not sure "fear" is the right word. Perhaps "I know I can't discuss civilly the subject so why bother" would be a better definition.

That’s why I started this thread: to ask Creationists here whether they ever feel intimidated to debate because of a tendency not to discuss this topic respectfully.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Besides the presence of public shaming in the media, in TV shows, is undeniable.

Do you think the rejection of well supported science in the name of theological purity is something we should accept in society?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you think the rejection of well supported science in the name of theological purity is something we should accept in society?

I grew up in a social and religious context where evolution was the only truth available...supported even by my Catholic priest, so I've never known the perspective of people who believe in ID or YEC. But I'm really fascinated by Creationism and the big faith which sustains it. Yes ....it should be socially accepted...but in public school the state will admit only official science...and rightfully so.

 

[Revoltingest]

Everyone knows that if something is a "theory", it's in dispute.
Such is the case with the TOG (Theory Of Gravity).
An alternative....
https://www.theonion.com/evangelical-scientists-refute-gravity-with-new-intellig-1819567984

 

[Polymath257]

Why should they have fear if they are in the US? They are the majority. Unfortunately for the US.

In other countries, the calculation may be different.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I grew up in a social and religious context where evolution was the only truth available...supported even by my Catholic priest, so I've never known the perspective of people who believe in ID or YEC. But I'm really fascinated by Creationism and the big faith which sustains it. Yes ....it should be socially accepted...but in public school the state will admit only official science...and rightfully so.

The perspective of the ID/creationist movement is that theological purity is more important than truth. For them, what they believe is more important than what is real. More than anything, people are ridiculed for thinking that their beliefs trump reality.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Afraid or intimidated?

I am a proud JW believer in creation but would not label myself a 'creationist' for fear of being lumped in with YEC's.
ID would fit more into what we believe. Intelligent Design is evident in nature. Design is proof of planning and planning requires intelligence. Its not rocket science really.

I cannot support the ideas of YEC's any more than I can support the equally ridiculous accidental process of mindless evolution. There is somewhere in the middle that sits comfortably with both true science and the Bible.

I am proud because I have not been taken in by evolutionists making suggestions about how they think life appeared on this planet and what is responsible for its diversity. Their "mountains of evidence" amount to "molehills of suggestion and supposition" and if you really read the many articles written, you will see how thin the evidence really is.

Their use of derision and insults against those who oppose their view are proof that they have no real evidence for what they assume. If the evidence was real, it wouldn't still be a theory.

For me, its Evolutionary Science 0....and ID 10/10 !

" If the evidence was real, it wouldn't still be a theory."

The Earth orbiting the sun is 'just a theory' and plate tectonics is 'just a theory' and electron theory is 'just a theory'.

The sad part is that Deeje has had the definition of a scientific theory explained for them dozens of times; yet they STILL like to pretend that a scientific theory is no different from a guess. How sad and pathetic.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

" If the evidence was real, it wouldn't still be a theory."

The the Earth orbiting the sun is 'just a theory' and plate tectonics is 'just a theory' and electron theory is 'just a theory'.

The sad part is that Deeje has had the definition of a scientific theory explained for them dozens of times; yet they STILL like to pretend that a scientific theory is no different from a guess. How sad and pathetic.

Methinks the link to an article from The Onion denotes an attitude of sarcasm and wit.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Well…ridiculing people is childish, and I think nobody should ever cross the line...
and I think freedom of speech must be always guaranteed by the state.

Do you feel that ridicule is not something that should NOT be included/guaranteed as freedom of speech then? Or was your pairing of these statements more just to relay that it would "be nice" if everyone realized that ridicule is disrespectful? Because I really don't see a "guarantee" of free speech that prohibits things like ridicule as worth very much at all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I like the dictionary definition.

theory
ˈθɪəri/
noun

1. a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
   "Darwin's theory of evolution"
   synonyms: hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, postulation, postulate, proposition, premise, surmise, assumption, presumption, presupposition, notion, guess, hunch, feeling, suspicion; More
   
   • a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based.
     "a theory of education"
   • an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action.
     "my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"

Funny how science has a different meaning of the word.

I can't imagine why.

Scientists have a better definition. Their definition includes the need to be tested and to be falsifiable.

I cannot see why you hate the idea of testing the concept that you do not understand and scares you so much. Is it because the theory of evolution has a record of passing the various tests given to it? Is it because creationism fails every time that it is tested?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Scientists have a better definition. Their definition includes the need to be tested and to be falsifiable.

I cannot see why you hate the idea of testing the concept that you do not understand and scares you so much. Is it because the theory of evolution has a record of passing the various tests given to it? Is it because creationism fails every time that it is tested?

I like Gould's explanation.

"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from apelike ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other, yet to be discovered."--Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"

 

[QuestioningMind]

Well...at least in my country I have the impression that there are people out there (lay, ecclesiastical...it doesn't matter...) who believe in Creationism, but are too afraid of admitting it publicly, out of fear of being ridiculed.
Statistically speaking, I think almost nobody in the society I live in would say they're proud to believe in creation...the only people who did were a couple of JW's.
Or maybe in the US the Creationist pride is more vivid...

Evolution: true or false?

Are they afraid? Some may be, but clearly there are quite a few who aren't. As long as they don't mind having to try and defend their unsubstantiated claims, they shouldn't fear 'coming out'. At least, no more so than Flat Earthers should fear coming out.

 

[Deeje]

" If the evidence was real, it wouldn't still be a theory."

The Earth orbiting the sun is 'just a theory' and plate tectonics is 'just a theory' and electron theory is 'just a theory'.

The sad part is that Deeje has had the definition of a scientific theory explained for them dozens of times; yet they STILL like to pretend that a scientific theory is no different from a guess. How sad and pathetic.

You know what I think is truly sad and pathetic? That people, even those who study science, blindly skip right over the parts in their education system that actually prove that evolution is mostly guesswork. Read any article that explains the evolutionary process and see what "might have" or "could have" taken place....or what "leads us to believe" that something "may have" happened....It's all there in the language. These phrases do not belong in true science which is able to provide conclusive evidence for their hypothesis to become, firstly 'science theory' and on into 'science fact'. I see mostly 'science fiction'.

I have been told many times by the scientists here that there are "no facts in evolutionary science". If there are no facts, then all they have is educated guesswork. The more educated the scientist, the more the guesswork is received as if it were fact. Ask Mr Dawkins if he believes that evolution is fact? He has no hesitation in affirming that. But since he cannot back up a single claim with substantive evidence, he is fudging the truth to push his precious agenda. Arrogance is no substitute for substantiated evidence.

Every article I have ever been given to explain the evolutionary process uses the language of supposition and suggestion to indicate that what they "believe" happened, really did. Back up the suggestion with good diagrams and realistic computer imagery and bingo!...there's your 'overwhelming evidence'.....all I see are overwhelming amounts of unprovable conjecture.

What is the strong indication to scientists that whales evolved from four legged furry land dwellers? An ear bone that was "similar" to what whales have. Really? That's what they base such a ridiculous belief on?....and yet everyone swallows it down Iike it must have happened just because the scientists said so. Throw in a couple of similar looking creatures that existed before that and then suggest relationship in some imagined chain of evolution, and the suggested scenario is complete.

I don't think any of the supporters of macroevolution have any idea how the power of suggestion is used to by-pass common logic. (Which, like common sense, is not so "common" any more.)

Fossils are used to support evolution but they have no voice apart from the one scientists give them. Can you trust a ventriloquist who puts words in the mouth of a lifeless dummy? Scientists can make fossils say whatever they want.

I believe that this is one of the greatest con jobs in history. But like all con jobs, no one will realise it until they have been stripped of all that is truly valuable. Once you erase God from your consciousness, all that is moral goes out the window. The world at present is proof of that IMO. It's not a place you want to raise kids anymore.