comments on the Qur'an whether good or bad

[Raahim]

I see what you are saying and it is mostly true. However, in my opinion, a believer ought to have sufficient knowledge of his faith (especially if he joins forums wherein he is going to be asked to talk about it). Secondly, converts especially should do a lot of research before converting to be able to provide at least reasonable claims why he converted and what he believes and why. The believers should do thorough research in-stead of just relying on what Priests, Gurus and Imams say and taking it for granted. Also, one could go to several different, say, Priests and get several different answers. For instance, does one go to a Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, Anglo-Catholic, Lutheran,or a Baptist priest/vicar/whatever?

Of course, I agree with you. But a convert should convert to a faith when he or she has enough evidence for oneself to accept it or simply feels like that is correct.
One goes to the priest of the branch he wants to learn about, simple.

 

[Rival]

Of course, I agree with you. But a convert should convert to a faith when he or she has enough evidence for oneself to accept it or simply feels like that is correct.

Of course, not all will be convinced by the same things.

 

[ak.yonathan]

The question is will muslims step up and answer these charges, and will bible readers step up and challenge the Qur'an by asking theological questions?

Why should bible readers challenge the Qur'an? You make it sound like you want there to be discord between Christians and muslims.

 

[Raahim]

What I understood while reading the Quran is its fear. It speaks only of belief in Allah and denying to do so will cause hellfire and misery.
In some verses it has awful comments and commandments on killing polytheists as in Hindus, wiccans, neo pagans, etc. which surely I didnt find pleasant.
Also few verses that speak of "striking the necks of those who don't believe in Allah".
Allah is infinite, Allah is the greatest and he's the true God.

If you try to compose a surah that is better than those in the Quran, and then fail, Allah will burn you forever if you in the fire that he has prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89


Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80

Are some of the verses of the the Quran, HAdith has more dangerous passages based on people of other beliefs.

And all religions have chapters of torture. The old testament has it way more than any other scripture. Law books of ancient Hindu societies before 3000 BCE has caste put on birth and allows sacrifice of horses, goats and even death for a theft and treachery. Thervada scriptures has a few sexist verses.

Islam to be has become about world domination of some kind, though many young people of this religion follow their faith liberally without any hate.
But overall, faith by hate and fearmongering isn't something I'm comfortable with, of Islam or the old testament, mainly when it's a United religion with laws of the Quran still valid today unlike Hindu and buddhist beliefs and laws that are subjected to change with time.

This is my perception for now.

Wow, so much miss-interpretations & miss-quotes.
You fear and feel uncomfortable because you might have found yourself in those wrong actions maybe.

 

[Rival]

Why should bible readers challenge the Qur'an? You make it sound like you want there to be discord between Christians and muslims.

When the believers say 'We worship the same God', but their theological books sound like totally different Gods, I think challenges should be posed.

 

[Raahim]

When the believers say 'We worship the same God', but their theological books sound like totally different Gods, I think challenges should be posed.

I have same opinion about theological debate and linguistical debate - many ideas on who many don't agree on and leads nowhere. Am I wrong?

 

[ak.yonathan]

When the believers say 'We worship the same God', but their theological books sound like totally different Gods, I think challenges should be posed.

Actually, there are a lot of similarities between the Bible and the Qur'an. The kind of God described is also similar, I think, in that He is an omnipotent and omnibenevolent One.

 

[Rival]

I have same opinion about theological debate and linguistical debate - many ideas on who many don't agree on and leads nowhere. Am I wrong?

I don't think it leads nowhere I think it can be very fruitful as an exploration of one's own faith and another person's, if nothing else.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Wow, so much miss-interpretations & miss-quotes.
You fear and feel uncomfortable because you might have found yourself in those wrong actions maybe.

Haha.
Not the first time when people tried to vindicate violent ideologies by blaming the victims or the reader for reading the scriptures as it is given.
So, not really surprising.

 

[Rival]

Actually, there are a lot of similarities between the Bible and the Qur'an. The kind of God described is also similar, I think, in that He is an omnipotent and omnibenevolent One.

The qualities of God are the same, but the way he acts and so on are different. The God of the Gospels calls Yeshua "My beloved son, in whom I am well pleased," the Qur'anic God is no father to anyone.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Wow, so much miss-interpretations & miss-quotes.
You fear and feel uncomfortable because you might have found yourself in those wrong actions maybe.

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Waddoo law takfuroona kama kafaroo fatakoonoona sawaan fala tattakhithoo minhum awliyaa hatta yuhajiroo fee sabeeli Allahi fa-in tawallaw fakhuthoohum waoqtuloohum haythu wajadtumoohum wala tattakhithoo minhum waliyyan wala naseeran
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيّاً وَلاَ نَصِيراً
4:89


But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
Fa-in lam taf'aloo walan taf'aloo faittaqoo alnnara allatee waqooduha alnnasu waalhijaratu o'iddat lilkafireena
فَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلُواْ وَلَن تَفْعَلُواْ فَاتَّقُواْ النَّارَ الَّتِي وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ أُعِدَّتْ لِلْكَافِرِينَ
2:24


You see many of them becoming allies of those who disbelieved. How wretched is that which they have put forth for themselves in that Allah has become angry with them, and in the punishment they will abide eternally.
Tara katheeran minhum yatawallawna allatheena kafaroo labi/sa ma qaddamat lahum anfusuhum an sakhita Allahu 'alayhim wafee al'athabi hum khalidoona
تَرَى كَثِيراً مِّنْهُمْ يَتَوَلَّوْنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَبِئْسَ مَا قَدَّمَتْ لَهُمْ أَنفُسُهُمْ أَن سَخِطَ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَفِي الْعَذَابِ هُمْ خَالِدُونَ
5:80


But no evidence will be enough for you, but vague verses about condemning homosexuality and without wasting of time, they'll be the first to make laws to discriminate and torture them if not kill them immediately.

 

[Raahim]

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Waddoo law takfuroona kama kafaroo fatakoonoona sawaan fala tattakhithoo minhum awliyaa hatta yuhajiroo fee sabeeli Allahi fa-in tawallaw fakhuthoohum waoqtuloohum haythu wajadtumoohum wala tattakhithoo minhum waliyyan wala naseeran
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيّاً وَلاَ نَصِيراً
4:89


But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
Fa-in lam taf'aloo walan taf'aloo faittaqoo alnnara allatee waqooduha alnnasu waalhijaratu o'iddat lilkafireena
فَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلُواْ وَلَن تَفْعَلُواْ فَاتَّقُواْ النَّارَ الَّتِي وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ أُعِدَّتْ لِلْكَافِرِينَ
2:24


You see many of them becoming allies of those who disbelieved. How wretched is that which they have put forth for themselves in that Allah has become angry with them, and in the punishment they will abide eternally.
Tara katheeran minhum yatawallawna allatheena kafaroo labi/sa ma qaddamat lahum anfusuhum an sakhita Allahu 'alayhim wafee al'athabi hum khalidoona
تَرَى كَثِيراً مِّنْهُمْ يَتَوَلَّوْنَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لَبِئْسَ مَا قَدَّمَتْ لَهُمْ أَنفُسُهُمْ أَن سَخِطَ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَفِي الْعَذَابِ هُمْ خَالِدُونَ
5:80


But no evidence will be enough for you, but vague verses about condemning homosexuality and without wasting of time, they'll be the first to make laws to discriminate and torture them if not kill them immediately.

I don't know what you wanted to say with this post to be honest. Muslims don't condemn homosexuality any more than Jews & Christians, there are many Muslims who support LGBT people and would never harm anyone unless self-defence is needed.

 

[Raahim]

I don't think it leads nowhere I think it can be very fruitful as an exploration of one's own faith and another person's, if nothing else.

Good opinion.

 

[Raahim]

Haha.
Not the first time when people tried to vindicate violent ideologies by blaming the victims or the reader for reading the scriptures as it is given.
So, not really surprising.

1) Who on Earth with healthy sanity blames victims for the crime?
2) Scriptures like Quran can't be read as they are given on surface especially by non-Muslims

 

[Subhankar Zac]

I don't know what you wanted to say with this post to be honest. Muslims don't condemn homosexuality any more than Jews & Christians, there are many Muslims who support LGBT people and would never harm anyone unless self-defence is needed.

This about the ideology, not the personal beliefs of the people.
There are Hindus who eat beef and marry inter caste, there are Buddhists who eat meat, Jains who kill insects...
That's their liberal or personal interpretation. In the modern world no one can hold on to all the laws of their faith.

However what the United scriptures say, the example of the life of the leader, deity or prophet, the various schools... Only in the cases on uniform relgions like that of Abrahamic ones. The new mayor of London is a prime example of liberal ideas.

But the Quran, what concerns the Quran and what the Quran says can't be applied to all Muslims because many are liberal, many fanatics, others conservatives and even moderates.

So, solely since Islam, being a unified religion of a single God, a single line of prophets, single book of laws and one kind of beliefs... comes from the Quran.

If it was neo paganism, Hinduism, shamanism, etc the case would be different as all these are umbrella terms for millions of different belief systems and includes atheism as well.

 

[Rival]

2) Scriptures like Quran can't be read as they are given on surface especially by non-Muslims

This basically amounts to 'You can only understand the Qur'an if you are already a Muslim," which makes little to no sense. No-one would ever convert or have understood the Qur'an and Islam would not exist because there had to be some first converts. You have to convert first then read the scriptures later is a really terrible idea. And, as I've always said, the Qur'an is actually pretty straightforward compared to a lot of the Tnach and books like the Apocalypse of St John. The Qur'an itself claims to be perfectly clear.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Scriptures like Quran can't be read as they are given on surface especially by non-Muslims

No scripture was written in English which now is available in most translations.
Vedas first composed verbally around 5000-7000 years ago, came into words around the 1800-900 BCE.
Quran was an Arabic scripture and is said, like the Vedas the words remain unchanged over the years. This too when translated in English, surely a few grammatical or mistranslations will be there.
But overall, even though I liked Sufism in Islam, the Quran like the old testament, Manusmriti and the Hadith was a huge turn off for me.

 

[Raahim]

This basically amounts to 'You can only understand the Qur'an if you are already a Muslim," which makes little to no sense. No-one would ever convert or understood the Qur'an and Islam would not exist because there had to be some first converts. You have to convert first the read the scriptures later is a really terrible idea. And, as I've always said, the Qur'an is actually pretty straightforward compared to a lot of the Tnach and books like the Apocalypse of St John.

Difference is when you read Quran as it is without any commentary from scholars and when you do. You'll get much clearer picture of the verses that are frequently miss-used by many against Islam and that even some Muslims use against others (& automatically against Islam). I wouldn't agree Quran is (pretty) straightforward, if any holy book could be straightforward I'd say it's NT since it's like biography of Yeshua (PBUH)

 

[Rival]

Difference is when you read Quran as it is without any commentary from scholars and when you do. You'll get much clearer picture of the verses that are frequently miss-used by many against Islam and that even some Muslims use against others (& automatically against Islam). I wouldn't agree Quran is (pretty) straightforward, if any holy book could be straightforward I'd say it's NT since it's like biography of Yeshua (PBUH)

Nope, I use tafsirs and ahadith, also Sirah Rasul Allah, as well as videos and articles by scholars. My favourite is Abu Mussab Wajdi Akkari. He is a Wahabi.

 

[Raahim]

No scripture was written in English which now is available in most translations.
Vedas first composed verbally around 5000-7000 years ago, came into words around the 1800-900 BCE.
Quran was an Arabic scripture and is said, like the Vedas the words remain unchanged over the years. This too when translated in English, surely a few grammatical or mistranslations will be there.
But overall, even though I liked Sufism in Islam, the Quran like the old testament, Manusmriti and the Hadith was a huge turn off for me.

To each their own, isn't that right? I like Sufism too, but I'm not much into it. As long as person lives in morals I'm sure Allah will reward them.
Mistranslations should be avoided as much as possible in holy books, that's why Jews prefer Hebrew & Muslims Arabic.