comments on the Qur'an whether good or bad

[firedragon]

This is how easy it is.
Yes. But etc...
No. But...
Simple

Paul. I am sorry. Again, its not so simple.

God created everything good. Downhill after that. Why did GOd create us at all? Didnt he know it would be downhill afterwards? If not, he is not all knowing.

If he created everything good, did he create the serpent as a walking or flying creature? Because after the fruit saga, then he is made to crawl on his belly and eat dirt. I didnt know serpents eat dirt anyway.

How are children born deficient if everything was created good. Is it because Adam and eve sinned? Thus, Adam and eve sin, the future children inherit that sin, they are born deformed with defects, they are not allowed in church because they are either disabled or had a defect. I quoted Ezekiel earlier.

God creates a perfect world, someone sins, future generations are sometimes born with a defect, and God himself doesnt allow them in the church. Dont you see it as a dirty discrimination?

Ill tell you what, could you Paul give me an answer for that doubt?

BTW, I am used to calling people bro or brother because in my country we are used to it. It is very difficult to end a sentence without it. But am trying to get used to not use it. Thus, if what I type sounds rude I apologise in advance.

 

[anonymous9887]

This is your idea, its not the biblical narrative. You say Bibles God and talk of beliefs of denominations. If the bible is a book, one book, who cares about beliefs? You should be able to quote the bible and show what it says, not personal belief.

So god put them in the garden and he wanted them to fill the earth and expand the paradise genesis 1:28
That was his original purpose

Look what he says for the future
Psalm 37:10,11, and 29 they will posses the land forever
Jesus= matthew 5:5 the meek shall inherit the earth.

 

[firedragon]

No its not genesis 1:31 god saw all that he had made and it was very good.

I think everyone in this forum would have read it. And its not very good, its good.

 

[OurCreed]

What is a problem is a good god that doesn't not have bad intentions to:
1. Create us to test with evil

Or
2. You can have an actual good god that created everything to be good, and wanted the best for his creatures, and still wants the best.

This is what I wrote to someone else. It applies to you.

--------------

But the fact still remains that God is allowing evil to exist. This is the point I am trying to get at, and you basically admitted it already. You said, "God created the situation which allowed for individuals to will and do evil -but he did not create any evil beings."

I don't disagree on this fact, there are no evil beings that God created. But God still allows evil in the world.

All I said from the very beginning was that God allows evil to exist simply to test man. Apparently, Paul had a problem with this and said only a cruel God would do this. Well, that's a form of hypocrisy because Paul doesn't understand his own beliefs. If God allows evil to exist, then he himself is already worshiping his version of a "cruel God."

Qur'an - 2;155-156
"And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient, Who, when adversity (evil) strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return.""

This verse of the Qur'an tells us that God will surely test us humans with fear, hunger, loss of wealth, loss of lives, and loss of fruits (blessings and good things). But then God grants good news (tidings), to those who are patient. Those who persevere in adversity and misfortune, they hold fast to the will of God and believe and trust Him. This is the teaching of Islam which I was answering the original OP, until Paul came up who had a problem with it.

 

[anonymous9887]

Paul. I am sorry. Again, its not so simple.

God created everything good. Downhill after that. Why did GOd create us at all? Didnt he know it would be downhill afterwards? If not, he is not all knowing.

If he created everything good, did he create the serpent as a walking or flying creature? Because after the fruit saga, then he is made to crawl on his belly and eat dirt. I didnt know serpents eat dirt anyway.

How are children born deficient if everything was created good. Is it because Adam and eve sinned? Thus, Adam and eve sin, the future children inherit that sin, they are born deformed with defects, they are not allowed in church because they are either disabled or had a defect. I quoted Ezekiel earlier.

God creates a perfect world, someone sins, future generations are sometimes born with a defect, and God himself doesnt allow them in the church. Dont you see it as a dirty discrimination?

Ill tell you what, could you Paul give me an answer for that doubt?

BTW, I am used to calling people bro or brother because in my country we are used to it. It is very difficult to end a sentence without it. But am trying to get used to not use it. Thus, if what I type sounds rude I apologise in advance.

1. God created us out of love. God is love
2. I didn't mean downhill as far as explanation, I meant I could exploit it easily after that. Why does he allow all these bad things. It is a sovereignty issue that's at stake, god had a perfect plan of having us enjoy life and serving him, but Satan the devil went against his plan. He could have destroyed him right then and there but god is proving a point with him and with the way mankind is because of not following god. So this I can answer at greater depth, but I'm sure you understand.
3. Ok so you quoted ezekiel, they can go and be with the assembly they just could not serve in the temple. Ok so unfortunately yes we inherit sin because of our parents, god could have killed adam and eve and that's it. Ok that we can do nothing about, but we are promised a better life based on the course we attempt to pursue, that where we stand for our own actions. I think you have a harder time of explaining if we have the capacity of being perfect why children are still born with defects? But again these people were a part of Israel.

Imagine that Adam and eve sinned and god allowed them to continue living a while longer.
After adam and eve knew the consequences they still sinned, god allowed them to have children, it's not gods fault they sinned and he is showing kindness to imperfect offspring.

 

[anonymous9887]

This is what I wrote to someone else. It applies to you.

--------------

But the fact still remains that God is allowing evil to exist. This is the point I am trying to get at, and you basically admitted it already. You said, "God created the situation which allowed for individuals to will and do evil -but he did not create any evil beings."

I don't disagree on this fact, there are no evil beings that God created. But God still allows evil in the world.

All I said from the very beginning was that God allows evil to exist simply to test man. Apparently, Paul had a problem with this and said only a cruel God would do this. Well, that's a form of hypocrisy because Paul doesn't understand his own beliefs. If God allows evil to exist, then he himself is already worshiping his version of a "cruel God."

Qur'an - 2;155-156
"And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient, Who, when adversity (evil) strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return.""

This verse of the Qur'an tells us that God will surely test us humans with fear, hunger, loss of wealth, loss of lives, and loss of fruits (blessings and good things). But then God grants good news (tidings), to those who are patient. Those who persevere in adversity and misfortune, they hold fast to the will of God and believe and trust Him. This is the teaching of Islam which I was answering the original OP, until Paul came up who had a problem with it.

What you misunderstand is your god planned it.
My god wanted good for us from the beginning.

My god has more than one reason why he is allowing this scenario to play out.

 

[anonymous9887]

I think everyone in this forum would have read it. And its not very good, its good.

Good is good. I was quoting from gwt sorry.

 

[firedragon]

1. God created us out of love. God is love
2. I didn't mean downhill as far as explanation, I meant I could exploit it easily after that. Why does he allow all these bad things. It is a sovereignty issue that's at stake, god had a perfect plan of having us enjoy life and serving him, but Satan the devil went against his plan. He could have destroyed him right then and there but god is proving a point with him and with the way mankind is because of not following god. So this I can answer at greater depth, but I'm sure you understand.
3. Ok so you quoted ezekiel, they can go and be with the assembly they just could not serve in the temple. Ok so unfortunately yes we inherit sin because of our parents, god could have killed adam and eve and that's it. Ok that we can do nothing about, but we are promised a better life based on the course we attempt to pursue, that where we stand for our own actions. I think you have a harder time of explaining if we have the capacity of being perfect why children are still born with defects? But again these people were a part of Israel.

Imagine that Adam and eve sinned and god allowed them to continue living a while longer.
After adam and eve knew the consequences they still sinned, god allowed them to have children, it's not gods fault they sinned and he is showing kindness to imperfect offspring.

If we all inherit sin, why are the disabled singled out and cant serve in the church?

"Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God" says they cant even come near to offer food of his God. Cant you see?

Now your concept is that Jesus redeems us all by sacrificing himself on the cross. Then why does Paul sentence Homosexuals and soft men to death? That is after Jesus is crucified. If they are to be killed, why do they have to even be born? Jesus has already redeemed us, why does the sin still continue if that is whats causing people to be born defective, born Gay, or they become Gay or soft later in life. What ever it is, dont you see the fallacy?

 

[firedragon]

My god has more than one reason why he is allowing this scenario to play out.

What are the reasons?

Can there be a reason to discriminate cripples?
Whats the reason to kill homosexuals?

 

[firedragon]

Good is good. I was quoting from gwt sorry.

No no worries at all. All due respect Paul.

 

[OurCreed]

What you misunderstand is your god planned it.
My god wanted good for us from the beginning.

My god has more than one reason why he is allowing this scenario to play out.

Your God allowed evil to exist. That by definition means He planned it.

You can't escape out of this one. Sorry.

 

[anonymous9887]

If we all inherit sin, why are the disabled singled out and cant serve in the church?

"Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God" says they cant even come near to offer food of his God. Cant you see?

Now your concept is that Jesus redeems us all by sacrificing himself on the cross. Then why does Paul sentence Homosexuals and soft men to death? That is after Jesus is crucified. If they are to be killed, why do they have to even be born? Jesus has already redeemed us, why does the sin still continue if that is whats causing people to be born defective, born Gay, or they become Gay or soft later in life. What ever it is, dont you see the fallacy?

You are misunderstanding
1. We were all sinners even those under law deserved death.
2. So there was no way to pay for our sin. When Jesus came he was our hope who called us out of darkness. In order to have your sins payed for and show you appreciate and accept his sacrifice is by walking and obeying as christ did. If you do not get out of the darkness you reject the offer.
3. We are condemned if we do not repent from those things, the way we show we accept Christ is by following him. Right now god wants all to repent.
4. Why are we sinners still? Because we are patiently waiting for the scriptures to be fulfilled. And God is patient toward mankind wishing that all will repent. Also we are under obligation to live as christ did even to death. Satan is testing our loyalty as well.

Can you ask me one thing at a time, it's hard to type a lot from my phone☺

 

[anonymous9887]

Your God allowed evil to exist. That by definition means He planned it.

You can't escape out of this one. Sorry.

God planned a paradise earth first.
Remember I believe God has control of his foreknowledge. But even if he did know gods intention was good first.

 

[anonymous9887]

What are the reasons?

Can there be a reason to discriminate cripples?
Whats the reason to kill homosexuals?

We don't kill homosexuals. Show me the scripture.
God and Jesus and Jesus corulers will take care of the judging we are to be peaceful toward all.

 

[anonymous9887]

Your God allowed evil to exist. That by definition means He planned it.

You can't escape out of this one. Sorry.

My god planned a paradise earth with perfect offspring, and in the end guess what he is going to have? Let jesus tell us.

Matthew 5:5 the meek shall inherit the earth.

 

[firedragon]

We don't kill homosexuals. Show me the scripture.
God and Jesus and Jesus corulers will take care of the judging we are to be peaceful toward all.

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. - Leviticus 20:13

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error - Romans Chapter 1.

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes
nor practicing homosexuals - 1st Corinthians chapter 6

I quoted from the TNIV. Nevertheless, the Greek for male prostitutes here is Malakoi. It actually means soft men. I doubt it refers to male prostitutes. Soft men probably are effeminate men. Homosexuals is Arsenokoite (Arsenokoitai). Arsen = Male. Koitus = Coitus. Also there is no word called practicing in the bible (Greek), TNIV has added it to soften it.

 

[McBell]

Yes I want scriptural evidence as well.

Rather difficult to take your claims seriously when you are asking for Koranic support for your own claims.....

 

[OurCreed]

God planned a paradise earth first.
Remember I believe God has control of his foreknowledge. But even if he did know gods intention was good first.

Still avoiding the topic. It doesn't matter what he planned first. He allowed evil and knowingly created a creation which will choose evil.

You suffer the problem of evil just like everyone else. Islam actually offers the answers.

 

[anonymous9887]

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. - Leviticus 20:13

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error - Romans Chapter 1.

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes
nor practicing homosexuals - 1st Corinthians chapter 6

I quoted from the TNIV. Nevertheless, the Greek for male prostitutes here is Malakoi. It actually means soft men. I doubt it refers to male prostitutes. Soft men probably are effeminate men. Homosexuals is Arsenokoite (Arsenokoitai). Arsen = Male. Koitus = Coitus. Also there is no word called practicing in the bible (Greek), TNIV has added it to soften it.

1. The scripture you quoted was from leviticus, so that was towards the assembly of the Israelites. You have to remember also that Jehovah was way more active back then, when he would appear to them by angels and the many deliverances. So the more proof there is the more responsibility you have because you have experienced more.
2. What paul said is correct they will not inherit the kingdom. But there are individuals that didn't hear the kingdom message, so they will probably receive a resurrection from the dead. There are many reason why one might be pardoned, but in general if people have evidence of a god and they love the darkness rather then the light, that is on them, but even still, god will consider each individuals circumstances, everyone is different. Also there are several occasions in the OT were Jehovah did proclaim his name in the entire earth. So people did hear about his mighty acts, but chose to rebel, as well as some surrendered to the Israelites.

 

[anonymous9887]

Still avoiding the topic. It doesn't matter what he planned first. He allowed evil and knowingly created a creation which will choose evil.

You suffer the problem of evil just like everyone else. Islam actually offers the answers.

You can say the Qur'an offers the answer sure.
1. You say the evil is here to test us according to the Qur'an and this was gods whole intention. I'm saying gods intention was first for us to have a great life, but Satan came and interrupted, so angels were watching, then mankind would also see Satan's rebellion. God had to make a choice destroy him or make an example out of satan and prove him a liar. People get to experience today a society without the true god, and we are getting horrible results. So this is a sovereignty issues while satan also has things against gods followers.