comments on the Qur'an whether good or bad

[anonymous9887]

Alright, Ill cut and paste my answer again FYI.

Honestly, I have done some though on this. This is a study called theodicy.

I think the concept of God has been misunderstood a lot and some people who analysed Theodicy in great detail and had ideas that deferred from the normal answers and justifications religious leaders give were called heretics. Ibn Arabi was one of them. I mean out of the Muslims. There were many many Christians too.

I believe that Buddhism with its 4 truths etc the reincarnation theory is born of creation, life and evil justification.

I don't believe God is a being outside this world looking at all of us like we are ants.

Traditional Islam allowed free thought. During the times when in the western world Christianity was suppressing scientific exploration and free thought, Islamic empire was encouraging them. Ibn Arabi and Avicena were just two of the people who allowed philosophy enter their theological studies and explorations. At that time it was encouraged, thus the golden age.

I sincerely believe that Christianity as a whole is doing that now. Even Judaism. Though there was a lot of resistance some time ago. Killing scientists. Killing Tindale. Disallowing open surgery etc.

Well. The problem is we call him God. By the English word. What we are used to are Gods like Zeus and Apollo. Then came Jesus with a statue. Of course also the Indian Gods. Like Karuppayya. But when you understand it from the Arabic point of view it changes. Now Allah has become a proper name. Like Zeus. Thus when you say Allah you picture the Islamic God. Can you see that the previous sentence in bold itself is flawed? Allah is the translation The God. Replace Allah with 'The God' and you will see what I mean.

Thus when you say God you picture the Islamic God.

Elohim means Powers or Mights (Pluralis Majestatis). YHWH I have heard from scholars of the Hebrew language comes from Havah which means he exists. Allah means The Divinity.

The rabbit hole might run much deeper.

Since God is an Almighty being staying outside this world, why cant he see that an innocent human being is suffering. Now many would say that sin is punished. Really? A child is born into utmost poverty in Somalia and die of hunger. Is it because he sinned? Where did he get an opportunity to sin?

Also, when you study the Quran and classical Arabic in depth. Especially ancient documents. Trying to understand them, you will find that in language, nothing comes close to the language of the Quran. During that time, there are no Arabic work of this magnitude. Well, if I say 1% of this magnitude that is still undermining the Quran. Thus when anyone studies classical arabic, Muslim or not, the Quran is the best tool. Best is an understatement. By far.

Thus, when you study the Quran in depth, you will see that "We created" or "We made it happen" does not actually mean God did something. It could also very well mean It happened. Now there is a famous phrase that Muslim apologists use a lot. Kun Fa Yakun. Be and it is.

36:82 His command, when He wants anything, is to say to it: ‘Be,’ and it is.

The Arabic word Kun can never be simply translated as Be. It is the act of manifestation. The act of existing inside something.

Well, thats a long subject and it would take a whole book to explain. God does not get involved. Simple. Its a bit deeper than that.

Well thanks for your time.

 

[ak.yonathan]

That's your interpretation of my words
1. These are 2 major faiths that should provide evidence and should be able to have a peaceful discussion.
2. I'll give it to muslims and their dedication, but with all do respect some christians are not ready to put up a defense with a peaceful discussion and rather not bother.
3. So that's a huge problem I believe.

Right, why should Christians put up a defense again? Cause I must have missed that point. If the Qur'an is right doesn't mean that the Bible becomes irrelevant or useless.

 

[blue taylor]

As for an answer for Paul:
1. Simple Jesus quoted from many books which paul also quoted from, so the books Jesus quoted from were validated.
2. Paul is basically a commentary he comments on passages from the OT so like any commentary if it doesn't fit it's false, but it fits and harmonizes with the entire bible.

Paul was the first great corrupter of the Gospel of Jesus. Thomas Jefferson

 

[paarsurrey]

1. People on here say it is the definite word of god, here is your chance to throw all your theology and questions at them.

2. Here we get to see if it truly is the word of god. If it is the word of god it should survive criticism.

3. Here is our chance to educate ourselves even further by asking all your questions.

Quran is not a dead book like NT Bible or OT Bible. It is a living book. Quran itself answers all reasonable questions . Please read Quran from cover to cover and then put your questions pertaining to ethical, moral and spiritual realms to Quran. If you don't get them, then we can help you to tell you where you missed the point.
It would also be reasonable if you also put those question to NT Bible or OT Bible and get answers with reasons, the same could be done by the followers of other revealed religions about their scriptures for comparison. The non-revealed religions or Atheists and the like who hide behind science could quote from the text-book of sciences with consensus for the claims and reasons in connection with their questions.

Regards

 

[David1967]

I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised by this thread. Unlike others with this subject matter that devolved into nothing but insulting one another's faiths, this thread for the most part despite differing opinions, has stayed polite. I like it.

 

[anonymous9887]

Quran is not a dead book like NT Bible or OT Bible. It is a living book. It itself answers all reasonable question f. Please read it from cover to cover and then put your questions pertaining to ethical, moral and spiritual realms to Quran. If you don't get them, then we can help you to tell you where you missed the point.
It would also be reasonable if you also put those question to NT Bible or OT Bible and get answers with reasons, the same could do other revealed religions about their scriptures for comparison. The non-revealed religions or Atheists and the like who hide between science could quote from the text-book of sciences with consensus for claims and reasons.

Regards

I have asked my questions
1. Did god create everything good yes or no?
2. Can a human being be perfect, stand sinless before god? If so provide evidence and person.
3. Did god create us incapable of being perfect, or are we capable of it? Again please provide evidence even in the Qur'an.

 

[firedragon]

Answer this question according to the Qur'an did god create everything good? Yes or no?

Sorry. Not a chance.

 

[anonymous9887]

Why not answer a simple question. I would answer it no problem.

 

[anonymous9887]

Sorry. Not a chance.

That's because you know that god created everything good. Then it's down hill from there.

God is merciful
Just
Almighty
Everlasting
Loving
He wants the best for his creation

 

[anonymous9887]

Sorry. Not a chance.

Your points I addressed not one I ignored I gave a reply. I kept my points short sweet and to the point.

So don't answer that question, answer this " why don't you want to answer"?

 

[anonymous9887]

Paul was the first great corrupter of the Gospel of Jesus. Thomas Jefferson

Ok so you are bringing an accusation against someone
Please present your evidence.

 

[firedragon]

Your points I addressed not one I ignored I gave a reply. I kept my points short sweet and to the point.

So don't answer that question, answer this " why don't you want to answer"?

Because that question cannot be answered yes or no. Its not a fairy tale Paul. Hope you understand.

Thats why I have given a very very short explanation of my position again and again. You want an answer that you want, yes or no. I cant give an answer you want to hear.

Cheers to you.

 

[anonymous9887]

Quran is not a dead book like NT Bible or OT Bible. It is a living book. It itself answers all reasonable question f. Please read it from cover to cover and then put your questions pertaining to ethical, moral and spiritual realms to Quran. If you don't get them, then we can help you to tell you where you missed the point.
It would also be reasonable if you also put those question to NT Bible or OT Bible and get answers with reasons, the same could do other revealed religions about their scriptures for comparison. The non-revealed religions or Atheists and the like who hide between science could quote from the text-book of sciences with consensus for claims and reasons.

Regards

Yes I am putting how comparing how the god of the bible deals with the people and how the god of the Qur'an deals with the people.
The bibles god(not all denominations have the same beliefs)
But I can show you my beliefs with the bible.
1. He created everything good.
2. He created humans perfect
3. He originally planned a paradise for us
4. Our God does not test us with evil
5. Gehenna is figurative, if we do not make it we will not be tortured eternally. We will be asleep (so to speak) forever.
6. His plan makes perfect sense in the 1000 year reign.

The Qur'an makes or maybe it's the people making him sound like a tyrant.

 

[anonymous9887]

Because that question cannot be answered yes or no. Its not a fairy tale Paul. Hope you understand.

Thats why I have given a very very short explanation of my position again and again. You want an answer that you want, yes or no. I cant give an answer you want to hear.

Cheers to you.

So are you basically saying we can't know?

 

[anonymous9887]

Because that question cannot be answered yes or no. Its not a fairy tale Paul. Hope you understand.

Thats why I have given a very very short explanation of my position again and again. You want an answer that you want, yes or no. I cant give an answer you want to hear.

Cheers to you.

This is how easy it is.
Yes. But etc...
No. But...
Simple

 

[firedragon]

Yes I am putting how comparing how the god of the bible deals with the people and how the god of the Qur'an deals with the people.
The bibles god(not all denominations have the same beliefs)
But I can show you my beliefs with the bible.
1. He created everything good.
2. He created humans perfect
3. He originally planned a paradise for us
4. Our God does not test us with evil
5. Gehenna is figurative, if we do not make it we will not be tortured eternally. We will be asleep (so to speak) forever.
6. His plan makes perfect sense in the 1000 year reign.

The Qur'an makes or maybe it's the people making him sound like a tyrant.

This is your idea, its not the biblical narrative. You say Bibles God and talk of beliefs of denominations. If the bible is a book, one book, who cares about beliefs? You should be able to quote the bible and show what it says, not personal belief.

 

[anonymous9887]

This is your idea, its not the biblical narrative. You say Bibles God and talk of beliefs of denominations. If the bible is a book, one book, who cares about beliefs? You should be able to quote the bible and show what it says, not personal belief.

Exactly christendom quotes their ideas and I quote scripture. I go door to door and preaching, I know how to use the bible. But talking with muslims is different because you guys argue different points.

 

[anonymous9887]

This is your idea, its not the biblical narrative. You say Bibles God and talk of beliefs of denominations. If the bible is a book, one book, who cares about beliefs? You should be able to quote the bible and show what it says, not personal belief.

No its not genesis 1:31 god saw all that he had made and it was very good.

 

[anonymous9887]

This is your idea, its not the biblical narrative. You say Bibles God and talk of beliefs of denominations. If the bible is a book, one book, who cares about beliefs? You should be able to quote the bible and show what it says, not personal belief.

Job 34:10 it is impossible for god to be wicked
James 1:13 god cannot be tempted nor does he tempt anyone

 

[OurCreed]

1.How many days did it take for Allah to create the world?
2. Are Jews and Christians fellow 'people of the book' who will go to paradise, or are they 'the worst of creatures'?
3. Were all things made of water or clay?
4.What came first, heaven or earth?
He it is Who hath created for you all that is on earth.
Then He turned to the heaven, and made them into seven heavens. -- Sura 2:29

Sura 41:9-12 also gives details on the creation process and confirms that the earth was created first and then the heavens. But then we read also:

Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built?
He raised the height thereof and ordered it;
and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morn thereof.
And after that, He spread out the earth. -- Sura 79:27-30

5. Did Nuh's son die? Or no?

(Remember) Noah, when he cried (to Us) aforetime:
We listened to his (prayer) and delivered
him and his family from great distress.
-- Sura 21:76



So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains,
and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest):
"O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"

The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water."
Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah,
any but those on whom He hath mercy!" And the waves came between them,
and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.
-- Sura 11:42-43

There are quite a few in there.

Also bonus question: even if there were no contradictions that wouldn't man it was from God, since I hope the maths textbooks I used at school had no contradictions either, but they are certainly not God-given!!

1) Not days, but ayyaam which means periods, long time spans. The universe was created in 6 long periods. You may be referring to some verses in chapter 41 that speak of the creation of the universe in explicit detail. From these verses, some people get confused because they add up all the numbers they see and it comes to the number 8. You see, I already know where you're going with this because I've already dealt with this issue in the past many times. What you need to know is that it's not 8 days, because there is overlapping among the days. The total number of days are still 6. This person here gives a good explanation: https://www.quora.com/The-Quran-tal...apter-that-one-says-it-happened-in-8-days-Why

2) Jews and Christians are people of the book, but they will still be judged. If you actually read the verse, you will know that only the disbelievers among the people of the book were called the worst of creatures. This was referring specifically to some Jewish tribes who were hostile with the Muslims. But those people of the book who are righteous, they will be in paradise. There is no contradiction here lol. Only in your head.

3) All of them. Different stages of creation. It's like saying the cake was made of egg, sugar, and flour. The Qur'an never says humans were made ONLY of clay or ONLY of water now does it?

4) Read the verse carefully. The verse never mentions that the earth was created or in existence before the heavens came into existence. The verse says all that is in the earth. This refers specifically to all the particles that make up every single thing on earth. All of these particles existed in the singularity moments before the big bang, before the universe actually came into existence. The verse never says the earth existed or was created and then the heavens. The verse says God created for us all that is in the earth, and then he finished crafting the heavens (universes). God has decreed everything on earth to exist before the heavens were fully created. In a nutshell, the subject of this verse is not earth, but all that is IN the earth. The actual planet earth did not come into existence until billions of years later.

Sura 41:9-12 also gives details on the creation process and confirms that the earth was created first and then the heavens. But then we read also:

You are mistaken into thinking that these verses are in chronological order, because they aren't. The verses are not in order from beginning to end, if they were, then the Qur'an would say, "First this happened, then this happened, then finally, this happened." But it doesn't do that. There are other verses of the Qur'an which are chronological, such as verse 4;34 which is regarding husband and wife relations. So if the Qur'an already contains verses which are chronological, then the verses in 41 would follow that format. But it doesn't. The verses first emphasize on earth in general, and then it broadens its explanations and starts speaking of the creation of the universe in general.

Sura 79:27-30 actually gives us the correct chronological order of creation, just like you bold it, it clearly says, "And after that." Yet, if you read 41;9-12, such words are not used!

"And after that" clearly denotes a chronological sequence. But this phrase is non-existent in 41;9-12. So chapter 41 isn't in the same chronological sequence. The earth was created after the heavens were created and chapter 79 confirms that clearly.

5. Did Nuh's son die? Or no?

Are you for real? The very fact that the Qur'an mentioned his son shows us that his son was an exception. The rest of Noah's family were obviously saved.

If my mother was at a trip in France, and I'm only with my siblings and my father, it would still be normal if some guest came to our house and said, "You have a very nice family!" Even though my mother is not present, a person can still use the word "family" to describe the remaining members!

There are quite a few in there.

Nah mate. You're most likely getting these from Google and have more to bring forward. All of these are not contradictions, just misreadings or not being fully educated of Arabic grammar, which is understandable. But once you actually got the correct information, there's really no reason to debate it.

Also bonus question: even if there were no contradictions that wouldn't man it was from God, since I hope the maths textbooks I used at school had no contradictions either, but they are certainly not God-given!!

Nobody is claiming that the fact the Qur'an has no contradictions means it's automatically from God. The Qur'an doesn't say that. The Qur'an says that IF there were contradictions in the Qur'an, then it definitely wouldn't be from God!! See! The wording!

4;82
"Will they not then reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah they would have found therein much contradiction."

The Qur'an itself already answered your bonus question!