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Comparing the Bible to the Qur'an.

YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
stevecanuck said:
I have a theory about that. I suspect that the compilers wanted to deflect attention from the first 86 surahs because they're so repetitive, boring, and they contain nothing new except that Mohamed is supposed to be the new leader of the faithful. Also, by putting the 87th surah second, it makes it look as though fighting "in the cause of God" was part of Islam from the start. The first command to fight is in the 197th of 6,236 verses if you consider compilation order. Chronologically it didn't occur until the 13th year.
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Very good. It is certainly a fascinating history, but that does not diminish the fascinating history of the Bible, either. The two can certainly bask in their own uniqueness. For example. One area that the Bible and the Qur'an are totally at odds is in the status of the person of Jesus Christ. When you compare the two visions, they may as well be of two different people. Christians would be wise to remember that.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
YmirGF said:
Very good. It is certainly a fascinating history, but that does not diminish the fascinating history of the Bible, either. The two can certainly bask in their own uniqueness. For example. One area that the Bible and the Qur'an are totally at odds is in the status of the person of Jesus Christ. When you compare the two visions, they may as well be of two different people. Christians would be wise to remember that.
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The other part of my theory that I forgot to include is that in those first 12 years and 86 surahs Mohamed only managed to attract a handful of followers. Putting them in order would highlight the futility and failure of those years.

As to Jesus, here is what the Qur'an says about the horror of claiming him to be the son of God"

19:88-91, "And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son. You have indeed advanced something hideous! The heavens are wellnigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains wellnigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son."

The next time you hear someone say that Islam has respect for "the people of the book", just read them that.
 
WonderingWorrier

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
stevecanuck said:
As to Jesus, here is what the Qur'an says about the horror of claiming him to be the son of God"
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I was asked about the term "Son of God" in another thread:


WonderingWorrier said:
In the terms of the prophets "Son of God" is real.

Son of God = Star.

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Job 38:7



Just as Wife of God = Sun (according to the terms of the prophets).

I talked about the Wife of God in this post while trying to explain the marriage of the lamb. As you can see it also says the children are as Olive plants:





And I mentioned the star in this post:



So I can put these two explanation posts together to help explain to you the term Son of God.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun

So the son of God is the Oil, it is the Olive tree, it is the star. It is a specific position which can be confirmed.

Therefore saying "Son of God" is not our term, it is a term of the prophets. And it can be confirmed so it is real.
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The full post including my explanation quotes can be seen here:

Jewish Messiah

The speech of the prophets is a sign language. Their words are symbols and with the symbols they are doing signs. "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word". John. When you can see the signs then you can hear the speech is true. Like it is exactly as the...
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I am explaining how the term "Son of God" is also the Olive, Oil, and Star. As the symbols are in alignment in the sign language of the prophets.

I see the Quran also speaks of these same terms:

"With it He produces for you corn, olives, date-palms, grapes and every kind of fruit: verily in this is a sign for those who give thought. He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in this are Signs for men who are wise". 16:11-12


And the Quran puts these words/symbols into alignment in the same way as I said:

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things. 24:35


Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Moon - Star - Sun

Therefore I logically accept this sign that Muhammad has shown.
He is doing signs (symbol alignment) speaking the same sign language of the Bible prophets.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
stevecanuck said:
1. The bible is a collection of books divided into two testaments created over several hundred years in three languages by about 40 authors, some of whom claimed to be inspired by God. The Qur'an is one book authored in 22 years in Arabic out of the mouth of one man claiming that every word is verbatim from God.
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I think this is a good point. And that may be one of the biggest differences between Christianity and all other religions. And for me, it makes Bible more convincing that it is not tied to just one person and period of time.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
1213 said:
I think this is a good point. And that may be one of the biggest differences between Christianity and all other religions. And for me, it makes Bible more convincing that it is not tied to just one person and period of time.
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We seem to be in agreement. I see the Qur'an as much more of an all-or-nothing belief because of the singularity of authorship.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
2. Translation is a frequent point of contention (actually a transparent attempt at diversion). I'm often sarcastically asked if I speak Arabic as a way of casting doubt on the quotes I provide by implying that the Qur'an can only be understood in Arabic. Four things about that:

1). The Qur'an is not a secret. There are dozens of translations available. If necessary, they can be compared and cross-referenced until a consensus becomes obvious as to the meaning of a verse.

2) When someone quotes the bible I have yet to see anyone question if that person speaks Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.

3) Yes, I speak and read SOME Arabic. For example I can prove that 'jihad' frequently refers to physical conflict as opposed to internal struggle by showing that the words 'jihad' (struggle) and 'qatl' (fight) are used interchangeably (especially in surah 9).

4). Documents and contracts are translated between English and Arabic all the time without any problem.
 
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The Hammer

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
stevecanuck said:
Please tell me what I said that you find biased keeping in mind that bias is a feeling not based on fact or knowledge.
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I'm never actually going to respond to your questions. Only point out you're biased against an entire culture/community.
 
stevecanuck

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
YmirGF said:
Hehe. Admittedly, I've only studied Islam since Sept. 12, 2001, so I have only just scratched the surface on Islamic thought. Perhaps one day I will reach your heady level of understanding on this matter.
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That's about when I started reading the Qur'an. I heard people say 'nasty' things about Islam, and I didn't believe them, so I decided to read the Qur'an in order to defend Islam. Those good intentions didn't survive the second page and the onslaught of pure hatred directed at unbelievers.
 
The Hammer

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
YmirGF said:
Hehe. Admittedly, I've only studied Islam since Sept. 12, 2001, so I have only just scratched the surface on Islamic thought. Perhaps one day I will reach your heady level of understanding on this matter.
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I like that you only cared about Islam after 9/11. SMDH
 
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