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Compulsion or not? What say you, Muslims?
- Thread starter YmirGF
- Start date
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
i hope this will answer your qusetion
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL8MbPFsQZw
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fgbh4XxZW0&mode=related&search=
OK, so lets say I don't subscribe to that? I, in practicing my faith, already submit to Allah and Him alone. If I pray every day for guidance and for G-d to lead me and that path does not lead to Islam am I somehow lost or lead astray by G-d Himself? In Islamic belief will everyone be a Muslim in the next age? What happens to the Christians and the Jews?
You can ask God when you meet him in the day of judgement why he didn't guide you to the right path, then he will tell you whether you truely wanted to be guided from all your heart, or whether it was just a tongue in a cheeck. Only Allah knows, he is the all knowing, Most Merciful.
I believe, the answer is in the Quran itself. Allah said in the Quran to his Prophet:
[108] Say: "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! those who receive Guidance, do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray, do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs." (Quran 10:108)
Peace and blessing,
TT
maro
muslimah
well , i don't doubt your sincerity and love to god ,
but it seems that we have two different definitions of "submission"
for example,
if somone send me a messenger with some rules to follow , and i chose to ignore the messenger ,as if he has never come,
then how can i claim to be submitting ?
god never lead anyone astray , and never let those who supplicate to him sincerly down ,
but before praying ,just make sure that you haven't already make up your mind
if your prayers for guidance don't lead you to islam , the prayers of many other people led them to islam ,
again ,i am not questioning your sincerity , i am just trying to make you reconsider , and may allah guide you
i am not sure if i got the question right ,
if the next age refers to the after life, then the answer will logically be yes , just like they were muslims (submitting) in this life
we believe in both Moses (Pbuh) and jesus(pbuh) , they are prophets who came to call for the same messege ,
but we also believe , that the beliefs of christians and jews nowadays , are not those teached to them by their prophets ,
their scriptures changed greatly from their original state ,
that's why Allah send prophet muhammed (Pbuh) to reveal his last messege to all humanity ,
it's our duty as muslims to make other people know about islam , and we will be asked about it in the judgment day , because we were blessed by being born as muslims
and to be honest, we are not doing that very well nowadays , even thought islam is the most rapidly growing religion ,
but i am sure that if we managed to give people true and deep understanding for islam , the number of reverts will tremendously increase
Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
No he will not be able to speak, hear, or see. Because all of the people on this forum are getting the message when muslims like you, champion, fullyvieled, peace, maro,etc. etc. are constantly giving the message. So Noahide and others will have no excuse and they as Allah says may not be able to speak, hear, or anything. Their bodies may do all the talking for them.You can ask God when you meet him in the day of judgement why he didn't guide you to the right path, then he will tell you whether you truely wanted to be guided from all your heart, or whether it was just a tongue in a cheeck. Only Allah knows, he is the all knowing, Most Merciful.
I believe, the answer is in the Quran itself. Allah said in the Quran to his Prophet:
[108] Say: "O ye men! Now Truth hath reached you from your Lord! those who receive Guidance, do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray, do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs." (Quran 10:108)
Peace and blessing,
TT
You know that. The ayat above is sufficient an evidence against all the non muslims.
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
Well call me lost or damned or whatever you wish but I do not subscribe to religions that are through the revelations of but one single man.
maro
muslimah
didn't i tell you that you have already make up your mind
and by the way , no one here called you lost or damned. i , myself , think you are a good sincere person and a fellow monothiest ,
and wether a muslim or not , it's still your choice ,not anyone else
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
didn't i tell you that you have already make up your mind
and by the way , no one here called you lost or damned. i , myself , think you are a good sincere person and a fellow monothiest ,
and wether a muslim or not , it's still your choice ,not anyone else
It's not that I have my mind made up it's just that since I was a christian for so many years and now I'm not for a few years and I still have a great connection to G-d I simply do not believe in the one path religions. I adhear to seven basic laws which are very close to your own beliefs....
- Prohibition of Idolatry: - You shall not make for yourself an idol.
- Prohibition Murder: - You shall not murder.
- Prohibition of Theft: - You shall not steal.
- Prohibition of Sexual Promiscuity: - You shall not commit adultery.
- Prohibition of Blasphemy: - You shall not blaspheme.
- Prohibition of Cruelty to Animals: - Do not eat the flesh of a living animal.
- Requirement to have just Laws: - You shall set up an effective government to police the preceding six laws.
I know now where you are coming from. I'm glad that you believe in all these 7 golden rules in your life.
Regarding Islam, i have a verse which will help you to understand more what God wants us to believe in.
[285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His Books, and His Messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey, (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (Quran 2:285)
So, what do you think?
Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
i have not called you anything and you are entitled to believe what you want. But the verses above is what Allah says.
Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
Could not have said it better myself. :clapI know now where you are coming from. I'm glad that you believe in all these 7 golden rules in your life.
Regarding Islam, i have a verse which will help you to understand more what God wants us to believe in.
[285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His Books, and His Messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey, (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (Quran 2:285)
So, what do you think?
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
Oh I know you didn't say that. That was a rhetorical statement. I think my biggest problem with other Abrahamic traditions is the fact that my faith and moral code spring from Judaism and while I know you believe the Torah has been changed the book of Devarim warns to not follow anything that your fathers did not know. There are so many religions that have sprung up claiming new revelations of G-d and claims of Prophethood.
I'm perfectly fine with peaceful Muslims because, while you do not consider me a Muslim, I do consider you an observant B'nai Noach simply because your faith fulfills the seven laws. I would pray beside you any day.
Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
You see but this is one of the contentions that many bring, Islm is not a new revelation. It is the same message sent from Allah to mankind. He sent the Torah with Musa, it was changed they left the path, so Allah sent Isa ibn Maryam with the Injeel they tried to kill him and God saved him, they (disbelieving jews) became arrogant and deviant. So Allah sent Muhammed as a (Seal)completion to mankind's line's of prophethood. For the Quran is complete the religion is concise all matters all solved. it will last till the day of Judgment from the testimony of Allah himself in His book the last and final revelation to mankind the Quran and an example of interpretation through things in the sunnah which the Quran gives authority to.
But those seven laws is just a fraction a minute fraction of what makes up belief and worship from an Islamic perpective. There are other elements involved it is not just about the ten commandments and that is it. We have to obey the Messenger. Simple.
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
So the Jews were Muslims and screwed it up so bad that Jesus came along and tried to fix it and failed and then Islam came along and set it back to what it was in the beginning when it was handed down to Moses? And this is all based on one man's teachings? Can you see why I would have a hard time dismissing my own faith based on that?
But i do not say this to disrespect you or your faith and I know I summed that up in far simpler terms than you believe. We can disagree and still bid each other peace and blessings.
Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
by definition of the word yes, and only those who followed the Messenger.
He did not fail, they just rejected the message. That is the way of mankind to always be in contention with the laws of Allah.
no, I think you are missing it a little. The religion of Allah never changed. The state of people did.
So you would rather have it from a bunch of sources which none of them are original so you have no way of verifying what was said by who,as opposed to getting it from one reliable unshakable source.
Not really
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
One of the unique aspects of Judaism is that it was revealed to an entire nation at Mount Sinai rather than through the revelations of but one single person.
Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
According to whose traditions the one's that once was or the one's that was altered. besides, this is not what Islam teaches Islam teaches that Musa pbuh was given the Torah and was informed by Allah that they were worshipping the cow and when he returned with the Torah he saw his people commiting the worst sin, and absolute betrayal and dishonor to the one who saved them from the oppression of Pharoah. So thes whole revealed to an entire nation, what Jewish script is it where all these people received revelation. so are you saying all these Jews were prophets. This is madness please is there any jews out there to confirm that Judaism was revealed to an entire group of people at Mount Sinai.
The Torah was revealed to all of them?
NoahideHiker
Religious Headbanger
The transmission was between Moses and Hashem but the entire nation saw it and heard it with there own ears. Why? Because the Israelites showed how easily they can slip back into their old ways. Even after seeing the Red Sea split in two for them to cross, if Moses leaves them alone for a little while they're making golden calves to worship. They had to see and hear for themselves.
"G-d said to Moses, 'I will come to you in thick cloud, so that all the people will hear when I speak to you. They will then believe in you forever.' Moses told G-d the people's response. G-d said to Moses, "Go to the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow. let them even immerse their clothing. They will then be ready for the third day, for on the third day, G-d will descend on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people." (Exodus 19:9-11)
"The third day arrived. There was thunder and lightning in the morning, with a heavy cloud on the mountain, and an extremely loud blast of a ram's horn. The people in the camp trembled. Moses led the people out of the camp towards the Divine Presence. They stood transfixed at the foot of the mountain. Mount Sinai was all in smoke because of the Presence that had descended on it. G-d was in the fire, and its smoke went up like the smoke of a lime kiln. The entire mountain trembled violently. There was the sound of a ram's horn, increasing in volume to a great degree. Moses spoke and G-d replied with a voice. G-d came down on Mount Sinai, to the peak of the mountain. He summoned Moses to the peak, and Moses climbed up." (Exodus 19:16-20)
G-d spoke these words in a loud voice to your entire assembly from the mountain, out of the fire, cloud and mist... When you heard the voice out of the darkness, with the mountain burning in flames, your tribal leaders and elders approached me. You said, 'It is true that G-d our lord has showed us His glory and greatness, and we have heard His voice out of the fire. Today we have seen that when G-d speaks to man, he can still survive. But now, why should we die? Why should this great fire consume us? If we hear the voice of G-d our lord any more, we will die!''' (Deuteronomy 5: 19-22)