Concerned About The Right Aligning with Putin

[Revoltingest]

I'm a general 'right-winger' and have conservative views on many things, am very religious and so on, but I have noticed a trend of those on my side of the aisle arguing more or less Putin apologetics - even if they're not explicitly 'pro-Putin/Russia' I hear a lot about 'If only people would look at the history of why Russia invaded...' and 'This is not a normal invasion...' etc. And even if Russia does have some historical precedent, this is still just an excuse - Britain, or at the very least England, has hundreds of years worth of historical precedent for invading France, and if you want to go far back enough we could probably claim Normandy - but we don't, because that's nonsensical.

As a rightist, I am concerned about this. I hope we can distance from Putin apologists. This is not a just war in any sense.

Interesting....I've been noticing some of my fellow posters
on the left engaging in Putin apologetics. So perhaps it's
a bi-partisan problem. (BTW, more than one poster here
has sung the praises of the Soviet system.)

 

[Estro Felino]

Interesting....I've been noticing some of my fellow posters
on the left engaging in Putin apologetics. So perhaps it's
a bi-partisan problem. (BTW, more than one poster here
has sung the praises of the Soviet system.)

Considering that Rizzo, the leader of the Italian Communist Party tends to defend Putin 's stances...

 

[Estro Felino]

What did he supposedly say and/or do, iyo, that sent that signal?

Italian Nationalists (and European rightists) in general can hardly tolerate such radical stances.
Video

I guess it was sentences like this that pushed them to prefer Putin.

 

[metis]

Italian Nationalists (and European rightists) in general can hardly tolerate such radical stances.
Video

I guess it was sentences like this that pushed them to prefer Putin.

Well, his statement was a respond to Islamophobia, and I would suggest he's right, imo, as I don't feel that religious bigotry is moral.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, his statement was a respond to Islamophobia, and I would suggest he's right, imo, as I don't feel that religious bigotry is moral.

In the West you can say anything about Jesus. It is allowed. But...not only about Jesus. About any prophet.
This is the foundation of our civilization. It has nothing to do with this or that religion.

 

[Aštra’el]

I'm a general 'right-winger' and have conservative views on many things, am very religious and so on, but I have noticed a trend of those on my side of the aisle arguing more or less Putin apologetics - even if they're not explicitly 'pro-Putin/Russia' I hear a lot about 'If only people would look at the history of why Russia invaded...' and 'This is not a normal invasion...' etc. And even if Russia does have some historical precedent, this is still just an excuse - Britain, or at the very least England, has hundreds of years worth of historical precedent for invading France, and if you want to go far back enough we could probably claim Normandy - but we don't, because that's nonsensical.

As a rightist, I am concerned about this. I hope we can distance from Putin apologists. This is not a just war in any sense.

Would you consider me a “Putin apologist”? I have admired and respected Putin since long before this war, but I make no excuses for the war in Ukraine. I don’t really have any strong opinions over it. War is war, and in it even the greatest of leaders might do terrible things- even if they are being guided by their own sense of “right and wrong”.

Additionally, I am not anti-authoritarian. I hold many authoritarian views myself, even though I appreciate and accept the existing system around me here in America. My occupation, training and personal worldview all enforce my perspective of strict adherence to authority, respect for the law, loyalty to my country/ nationalism, and the institution of order over the chaos within me. However, I am not an “advocate of authoritarianism”, as I understand there are other ways to successfully operate a country- which I might completely approve of- and I am not out to convince anyone that they must adopt my views on this.

So… Putin apologist or no?

 

[Rival]

Would you consider me a “Putin apologist”? I have admired and respected Putin since long before this war, but I make no excuses for the war in Ukraine. I don’t really have any strong opinions over it. War is war, and in it even the greatest of leaders might do terrible things- even if they are being guided by their own sense of “right and wrong”.

Additionally, I am not anti-authoritarian. I hold many authoritarian views myself, even though I appreciate and accept the existing system around me here in America. My occupation, training and personal worldview all enforce my perspective of strict adherence to authority, respect for the law, loyalty to my country/ nationalism, and the institution of order over the chaos within me. However, I am not an “advocate of authoritarianism”, as I understand there are other ways to successfully operate a country, of which I might completely approve of.

So… Putin apologist or no?

I'm mostly talking about those people who side with Putin knowing little about him, his history and Russian history in general, and seem to be pro-Putin because he against the woke West etc. I.e., enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of ideas. This is why I specified my particular political 'aisle' as supporting something out of some kind of reactionary movement rather than having an actual grounded, nuanced view. If they genuinely side with Putin, for reasons I personally could not understand, after having looked at all the evidence currently available, then that's up to them. I just don't want all conservatives to be deemed as siding with Putin when there are those among us who disavow him and his war/s.

 

[metis]

In the West you can say anything about Jesus. It is allowed. But...not only about Jesus. About any prophet.
This is the foundation of our civilization. It has nothing to do with this or that religion.

And Obama had a right to his opinion and was free to express it, right?

 

[KW]

I'm a general 'right-winger' and have conservative views on many things, am very religious and so on, but I have noticed a trend of those on my side of the aisle arguing more or less Putin apologetics - even if they're not explicitly 'pro-Putin/Russia' I hear a lot about 'If only people would look at the history of why Russia invaded...' and 'This is not a normal invasion...' etc. And even if Russia does have some historical precedent, this is still just an excuse - Britain, or at the very least England, has hundreds of years worth of historical precedent for invading France, and if you want to go far back enough we could probably claim Normandy - but we don't, because that's nonsensical.

As a rightist, I am concerned about this. I hope we can distance from Putin apologists. This is not a just war in any sense.

What are you talking about?

Could you give an example?

 

[Rival]

What are you talking about?

Could you give an example?

I'm mostly talking about those people who side with Putin knowing little about him, his history and Russian history in general, and seem to be pro-Putin because he against the woke West etc. I.e., enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of ideas. This is why I specified my particular political 'aisle' as supporting something out of some kind of reactionary movement rather than having an actual grounded, nuanced view. If they genuinely side with Putin, for reasons I personally could not understand, after having looked at all the evidence currently available, then that's up to them. I just don't want all conservatives to be deemed as siding with Putin when there are those among us who disavow him and his war/s.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree. But my point is that all the needless vitriol for anyone who dares voice an opinion slightly or even outright favorable to Russia is not such a good sign for the current state of mind in the West.

There is no reason that pro-Russia opinions should be tolerated. They should be met with harsh scrutiny at the very least.
Sort of like the Klan. Open support of them will--rightfully-draw harsh criticism and very few would--again rightfully--come to their defense. Putin wants to pull this crap and every excuse he gives should be rejected. Like this "de-Nazification" nonsense.

 

[stvdv]

I agree. But my point is that all the needless vitriol for anyone who dares voice an opinion slightly or even outright favorable to Russia is not such a good sign for the current state of mind in the West.

Gives us a little bit of a taste what authoritarianism feels like

1) Less Freedom of Speech
2) Less Freedom to be open minded
3) Less Freedom to voice ones opinion
4) Empathy is less appreciated
5) Judgmental behavior

 

[Estro Felino]

And Obama had a right to his opinion and was free to express it, right?

Of course he did
I just explained why Putin became popular, all of a sudden. The Syrian war played a significant role because many believed Putin and Erdogan were on the right side, trying to terminate it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm a general 'right-winger' and have conservative views on many things, am very religious and so on, but I have noticed a trend of those on my side of the aisle arguing more or less Putin apologetics - even if they're not explicitly 'pro-Putin/Russia' I hear a lot about 'If only people would look at the history of why Russia invaded...' and 'This is not a normal invasion...' etc. And even if Russia does have some historical precedent, this is still just an excuse - Britain, or at the very least England, has hundreds of years worth of historical precedent for invading France, and if you want to go far back enough we could probably claim Normandy - but we don't, because that's nonsensical.

As a rightist, I am concerned about this. I hope we can distance from Putin apologists. This is not a just war in any sense.

Wow I am surprised to hear this.

 

[metis]

Of course he did
I just explained why Putin became popular, all of a sudden. The Syrian war played a significant role because many believed Putin and Erdogan were on the right side, trying to terminate it.

Thanks for the clarification. The Russian massacre at Aleppo was and is a war crime, imo, although they'll never likely be prosecuted for it, and Putin is using the same tactic in the s.e. region of the Ukraine.

 

[stvdv]

Italian Nationalists (and European rightists) in general can hardly tolerate such radical stances.
Video

I guess it was sentences like this that pushed them to prefer Putin.

The best link I have seen...just 6 sec

Slander Prophets is not smart, hence our future should not depend on those doing this. I hope Obama applies this not only to Muhammad

Also, our countries should not depend on those who lie, not speak truth. I hope that US presidents follow that too

 

[sun rise]

I'm mostly talking about those people who side with Putin knowing little about him, his history and Russian history in general, and seem to be pro-Putin because he against the woke West etc. I.e., enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of ideas.

Sadly the number of areas where people are ill informed and have bad ideas is legion.

If you look at historical claims as a justification for war, Native Americans are more than justified in going all out against the USA and our treaty violations. Also, Britain would be justified to try to recover its lost colonies. So I have zero sympathy for that argument.

If someone wants to look at the post-USSR history of the region and note the missteps, bad assumptions etc of all the parties involved I would agree Russia could have joined NATO. But why didn't they do it? goes into that.

But when Russia started annexing parts of other countries and went to war to conquer Ukraine committing war crimes, they went way over a red line.

So while I can acknowledge all the mistakes all the parties made, Putin going to war multiple times including Ukraine including adopting some of the brutal tactics of the Nazis puts him as one who must be defeated and made to pay for his crimes.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If you're too late ...
The "left" was quick to support Ukraine and oppose Putin. So the "right" had to take the opposing position, wrong as it may be.

Gee, we couldn't all do something together because it's the right thing, could we? That's crazy I know.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Exactly. Besides, we should not forget that both Ukraine and Russia are countries where freedom of speech is practically absent. Very authoritarian and very militarized.

My country is traditionally pretty Russophile. Throughout these last months every single speech given by Putin is translated into Italian.
Recently Putin stated: we recognized Donbas republics exactly as the UN recognized Kosovo.

People like "picking a team," and are quick to label the other team bad or wrong. It's kind of a human thing but obviously sometimes it goes to ridiculous lengths, as we see in this scenario. Both countries have major issues, but we overlook them once we pick which one we want to stand behind.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm a general 'right-winger' and have conservative views on many things, am very religious and so on, but I have noticed a trend of those on my side of the aisle arguing more or less Putin apologetics - even if they're not explicitly 'pro-Putin/Russia' I hear a lot about 'If only people would look at the history of why Russia invaded...' and 'This is not a normal invasion...' etc. And even if Russia does have some historical precedent, this is still just an excuse - Britain, or at the very least England, has hundreds of years worth of historical precedent for invading France, and if you want to go far back enough we could probably claim Normandy - but we don't, because that's nonsensical.

As a rightist, I am concerned about this. I hope we can distance from Putin apologists. This is not a just war in any sense.

Nationalists generally reside within the same ideological ballpark.

It's kind of ironic in a way. During the Cold War, it was the Republicans who were anti-Russian, while accusing the Democrats of being too soft (as exemplified by the firing of Generals Patton and MacArthur who advocated taking a tougher stance against the Communist Bloc). Truman was accused of "giving away" China and Eastern Europe to the Communists.

I don't think the invasion is just, although I think if NATO had played its hand differently, there might have been a different result.

I don't know that the right-wing in the U.S. is necessarily "aligning" itself with Putin. They're certainly using it as an opportunity to criticize Biden's handling of the situation, just as they blamed him for losing Afghanistan.

But a right-wing nationalist might be more concerned about their own country ahead of anything else. A common criticism I've heard from the right these days is "Why does Biden want to send $33 billion to Ukraine when he refuses to spend $5 billion on a border wall?"

As for comparing this situation to England's ancient occupations of France, I'm not sure if this is analogous. A closer analogy might be England and Northern Ireland.